switched from Dean to Kucinich, you should do the same

Dennis Kucinich may be polling last, but he obviously has a very strong grass-roots following. I went to Dean and Kucinich Meetups on back to back nights. The Dean group was a front for the local Democratic Party; we simply listened to speakers running for local office. When people tried to raise the issue of the confederate flag gaffe, we were shut down. Absolutely nothing was accomplished. Furthemore, out of more than fifty people there, there was exactly ONE African American-- and this is in Toledo, OH!! Even a blind Dean disciple lamented this fact and said "This looks a lot like the Republican Party" in disgust.

Next day, Kucinich Meetup. People from diverse backgrounds-- not just graduate school liberals and life-long Dems. instead of listening to B.S. presentations from phony politicians, we networked and mobilized. I never had a doubt that Kucinich's message was that of the progressive, but the notion that Dean's campaign is somehow grassroots or revolutionary is completely absurd!

I've talked to literally dozens of people who support Dean only because they prefer him to the other frontrunners-- while their true choice is Dennis Kucinich. If EVERYONE who felt this way stood up and support Kucinich, he would be among the frontrunners. I will vote for the lesser of two evils if need be in November, but not before!

http://www.godhatesbush.com

for people like you

http://kucinich.us/i-switched.php

:)

and know who has a record of working towards liberal goals.

and i would say the same to any nader supporters - though i support his ideas, why waste your time with a candidate who clearly has no chance. don't waste your vote. PLEEEEEEZE - save us from this hell.

That you were basically wasting your time. I sure am not wasting my time by supporting a candiate whose values reflect my own.

First off, I will fully support whatever candidate the Democratic Party nominates and feel that all leftists and progressives from moderate Democrats to radical Communists should do the same.

Who says Kucinich does not have a chance? The media. Don't let the media pick our candidate. I'm not worried about Clark winning the nomination instead of Dean, or vice versa. So where is the harm in supporting Kucinich in the primaries, and making the country take notice that there are still liberals and progressives in America?

http://www.godhatesbush.com

WE THE PEOPLE have! or haven't you heard about dean's grassroots supporters?

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

The hard cold truth is that sticking with the candidate who most reflects your ideals- but who hasn't a chance against the competition- may make you feel very good about yourself but won't do a damn thing for the country. I like a lot of what Dennis has to say, but America is by no means anywhere CLOSE to ready to elect someone as liberal and uncharismatic (remember; Reagan and Clinton were elected based more on their charisma than on their policies) as Kucinich.It's not a matter of "selling out" or being "shallow", it's a matter of looking at what America is and dealing with the reality of that.

What, is Bush running in the democratic primary or something?

I see no reason why NOT to vote in the primary for Dennis UNLESS you are worried another candidate that you don't like (for me Clark/Lieberman) might get the nomination.

but good luck with your efforts!

.

And I want a winner this time, not a martyr.

n/t

1. He's opposed to stem cell research, and I believe co-sponsored the bill which banned it. (I am very pro-science, and he strikes me as something of a luddite)
2. He has a horrible history on abortion rights.
3. I find him very shrill in the few times I've seen him give a speech.
4. He laces his speeches with religious rhetoric which is unappealing to me.
5. I think his approach to universal healthcare is doomed to failure.
6. I see no way he can pass most of the big legislation he wants.

are totally irrelevent. Kucinich will have very little say in abortion matters as president, and he has in fact said that he will now support it. Considering he has not a damn thing on him compared to any other candidates as far as lieing goes there is little reason to doubt this.

a litmus test for SC appointees, he's still above the rest. When he belives in somehthing, he acts on it.

Kucinich has not changed his views on stem cell research, either. He was partly responsible for the bill that banned them.

My Dean meetup is nothing like that. Our local democratic party is too unorganized to come and campaign to us. Its usually just an introduction to the group itself, and then we discuss whatever issues the new attendees bring up. We spent some time on the confederate flag issue, but most people agreed its a non-issue blown up by desperate campaigns.

down from the top of a campaign, that it is impossible to control them very easily. It might have been more productive to let the national campaign know about your Dean Meetup experience. I wonder about someone who so quickly jumped ship just because of one meeting. I live in NE Ohio and know Dennis quite well. He is so passionate, driven and sincere. He is smart and takes his time to think through issues. He has really served his congressional district well. He cannot win againist Bush. I have spent the majority of my adult life volunteering for national campaigns, and have backed wonderful candidates that got their butts whipped. It's not about us, it is about the independent voter, and Dennis will not cut it with them, I am sorry to say.

Dean likes to bill himself as anti-establishment, when he is far from it.

Dennis Kucinich receives more than 50% of registered Republicans votes in his home district.

This is not about getting people with confederate flags in the back of their trucks to vote Democratic. This isn't about getting homophobes and racists and greed-mongers, etc., to vote Democratic, they're not going to. So why play the middle of the road?

http://www.godhatesbush.com

it doesn't prove that Dean is establishment, it just proves that your local Dean group is establishment.

"Dean likes to bill himself as anti-establishment, when he is far from it."

Dean is ant anti-establishment. He is anti-insider power elite. He is an outsider to DC politics and power brokering, unlike DK who is simply a failure at it.



"Dennis Kucinich receives more than 50% of registered Republicans votes in his home district."

That was because of his anti-choice stance... and you act like that's a good thing? Then you attack Dean for reaching out to working class southern folks on education and healthcare?

I think you've made your bias double standard quite clear.

... I just hadn't considered some of the points you raise/ wasn't aware of them... I certainly didn't know that DK supported a ban on flag-burning. Can you point me to where this can be verified?

because of how a meetup went in Ohio? Maybe YOU should move to NC and go to a Dean meetup.

... don't be intimidated by those who say he can't win.

http://www.godhatesbush.com

He might have a few better positions on policy, but that's moot if he can't win the election. DK is the worst candidate running, sharpton has a better shot than DK.

Anyone can support anyone for any reason.

I'm not intimidated by what strangers say! I think he espouses views I can easily go along with, but some time ago I veered from the philosophy that more liberal democrats can be effective presidents, given the current political climate.

I certainly don't begrudge anyone the way they look at these issues.

I like Dean. I like most of the candidates.

But DK is the real deal. Great ideas. Commitment. An excellent record.

an UNMARRIED president?

Silly, I know, but tell me the last time?

Sorry, he's not electable, for TONS of reasons...

if you want play that game.

:D
PS my middle name is Howard
You can make up a lot of silly reasons about any of the candiates. Like only Kerry can win because hes taller than Bush actually I think Gephardt is too. Only Edwards or Clark can win because we havent elected a northerner since Reagan. You can use a lot of silly stuff.

... damn, this sounds a lot like watching the Miss America pageant.

Back to being the silent observer now.

.

First DK meetup I've missed since we started July 4th. I've attended them in two different areas, since there isn't one anywhere close to me. We have a wide variety of motivated people. They are working hard to get the job done on a shoestring. What amazes me is the reason they come together. They are horrified by GWB, and determined to turn the country from the path we are on. They have a deep, abiding respect and affection for Dennis the man as well as supporting Dennis the candidate. They believe in DK, his message and his ability to get the job done, and they don't trust the other choices. There are many 3rd party candidates, independents, and people who have never been "political" flocking to register with the democrats and participate in this cycle of elections. They finally think their voice matters, and they want it heard.

I've seen and met Dean supporters who are just as enthusiastic about their candidate. I too switched from Dean to Dennis...early on. Not long after Dennis announced his candidacy. The passion, energy, and determination both Dean and Kucinich supporters bring to process is vital; we need it. We are going to need to expand it exponentially to take out GWB no matter who the nominee is. While I strongly believe that DK is the best man for the job, and I know Dean supporters feel the same about their guy, I hope we'll all be working on the same team no matter who we end up sending against Bush; Dennis, Dean, or someone else. We'll need everything we've got and everybody unhappy with Bush to get the job done in '04.

I didn't mean to indicate anything else.

http://www.godhatesbush.com

and likely to remain a Dean supporter. I really wish Kucinich had a chance, but I don't think he does.

That said, I've only seen 6 bumper stickers in my town so far. Three of the were for Dean and three of them were for Kucinich. I suppose that must mean something, but why do I still feel like he doesn't have a snowball's chance? For some reason, in spite of his integrity and in spite of his excellent position on the issues, he just doesn't seem to be able to catch the attention of the average voter. Personality and charisma count for a lot, and he appears to be lacking in those qualitites. And that's sad, because I'd vote for him against Bush any day.

The only reason Kucinich doesn't have a chance is because everyone thinks he doesn't have a chance, so they use that to justify voting less than their conscience. Listen to some of Kucinich's speeches. Listen to him in debates. Listen to how forceful and concise he was when Dr. Dean incorrectly stated that nobody who was running voted their conscience on the war in Iraq in congress--DK interjected that instant, pointed out that he had voted against the war and had led other congresspeople to do the same, and demanded that Dean acknowledge that. He didn't let himself be generalized.

One of Kucinich's biggest problems is that nobody takes him seriously, and they SHOULD. He doesn't have much money behind him--because individual campaign donations keep going to Dean, Gephardt, Kerry... I saw an MSNBC info-graphic about the Democratic Presidential candidates, and as far as they are concerned there seem to be only six in the race. Dean, Gephardt, Kerry, Edwards, Clark, and Lieberman. That pissed me off to no end.

Kucinich has NO skeletons in his closet. The worst people might bring up is his flip-flop on abortion (which he talks a lot about in his speeches, he volunteers it, doesn't wait for it to be asked), and the fact that Cleveland went into default under his leadership (just wait till he gets to respond to that in the campaign ads. He saved Cleveland residents hundreds of millions of dollars over the past few decades because of his hard and fast stance against utility monopoly). He does not have a hazy semi-conservative record like Dean (not to mention the confederate flag slip-up). He was not fired as NATO commander like Clark. There's very little mud to sling against this man, and his message could work for EVERY American. He has an insane amount of (sadly non-financial) backing from labor groups, feminist groups, celebrities...

DK could WIN. We just need to get him the nomination.

I'm sick of everyone saying DK can't win. At this point, a tuna sandwich could beat Bush unless the machines are rigged. You are right--DK doesn't have any skeletons to expose, and that is why he is being marginalized by the media. No fun at all for them. Dennis is Bush's worst nightmare. I guarantee the shrub has a hand behind how Dennis is treated.

Although, to be fair, Dennis needs to work on how he comes across to people on camera. He has all the ideas and is supercharged to work for us. It is just a damn shame America is so shallow.

I want the best, not the person everyone thinks can win. Why not vote your heart? We want a better world, not business as usual. I wish people would just stand up and be counted and expect more from our politicians instead of accepting the mediocre pablum.

I like Dean, but I think Dennis is the only candidate who could really change America for the better.

... a year ago everyone was saying

"Dean doesn't stand a chance, AND Kucinich doesn't stand a chance."

Dean changed that perception and Kucinich didn't. Kucinich started out with more money than Dean, and Dean did something about that while Kucinich didn't. And Kucinich had a big cedibility head start on Dean by being a congressman. Dean did something to improve his credibility while Kucinich didn't.

There are MANY prerequisites for becoming POTUS. Kucinich has a lot of those prerequisities, but to lead the country one must be able to inspire confidence. Kucinich has had just as much time as Dean to inspire a band of supporters, but he hasn't managed to accomplish what Dean has accomplished. People are becoming convinced that Dean can win because Dean inspires that confidence. Like it or not, Kucinich lacks one important prerequisite for leadership: The ability to inspire that kind of confidence in the masses.

There are just too many people who think he looks about 9 years old and who just will not take him seriously. It's really a shame, but the reality is that he started out with the same resources that Dean started out with, and just hasn't been able to pull it off. Do you really want a president who doesn't have the stuff to make the grade in the primaries?

nevermind DK didn't do what Dean did, and nevemind he hasn't been campaigning as hard or working as hard for the support... they act like we were all just supposed to support DK and the fact we're not means Dean has violated some code or there is something wrong with us.

If we all just supported DK he could win... yeah and if I shit gold bricks I'd never have to work 9-5 again. People support DEan over DK because Dean represents pragmatic progress... DK represents idealistic failure.

Simple as that.

I haven't heard a dozen flip-flops out of Dennis' mouth, like I have from Dean's.

Let's see here, Dean's either a voting member of congress who didn't approve of the Iraq War Resolution, or he's not. He either wants to be the candidate for guys who carry the symbol of racial oppression and slavery, or he doesn't. He either wants to attack other Democratic candidates and compare them to repugs, or it's unfair for them to compare him to Newt Gingrich. He either agrees with the pResident's policy on North Korea, or he doesn't. He either thinks it needs to be an issue if Democratic candidates skip public financing, or it's ok if he wants to explore opting out of the public financing system. He either supports NAFTA, or he opposes it.

I guess it's all about when you ask him, and who is doing the asking. I can't believe anyone with a brain could look at his statements and not be bothered.

The whole post is BS!

Support Dean if you think he's the best man for the Presidency, and more power to you!

"If we all just supported DK he could win... yeah and if I shit gold bricks I'd never have to work 9-5 again."

Small problem with the above- part one is physically possible, part two is not! Don't play stupid, please. I credit all of us here with more sense than that.

"People support DEan over DK because Dean represents pragmatic progress... DK represents idealistic failure.

Simple as that."

No, dear, just YOUR OPINION IS THAT simple. DK represents hope, principles and every-effin-thing this country currently lacks. If you don't have the balls to support that, then don't, but piss off before you attack Kucinich supporters.

FTR for people who want facts instead of fiction-
Kucinich came into the race in Feb 2003, a FULL FECKING YEAR AFTER DEAN! Dean was running around kissing arse for a year and STILL NOBODY GAVE A SQUAT WHO HE WAS. It wasn't until AFTER Kucinich stepped up and explained how he fought against this invasion, how he'd supported workers and how he was committed to campaign finance reform that ANYONE noticed the joker, the BS artist we call Dean.

I'm swick of being nice, and I've said it before. If you are stupid enough to lie about the events, plan to be called on it, G-dammit! This was complete horse-dung.

and when did Dennis have more money then Dean? Dean has gotten corporate money and Dennis hasn't been touched by that taint.

Dean started out with virtually nothing.

So Dennis is the better candidate? Why? Better at what? Clearly not better at inspiring a following. Clearly not better at raising money. Clearly not better at attracting attention to his campaign.

Yes, Dennis is better at a lot of things, but they are all things that don't matter a hill of beans in the real world of campaigning. That's kind of like saying that Kerry deserves to win because he has the best hair. Well it doesn't work that way. The fact is a POTUS needs to be able to inspire the masses. Dean does that, DK doesn't. End of story. To be qualified to be president you must demonstrate that you are able to win the nomination. Fail that test and you're not qualified, regardless of your other qualifications.

Is that right? Probably not.
Is that fair? Certainly not.
Is that the way we wish it worked? Unquestionably not.
Is that the way is really is in the real world? Absolutely.
Is DK passing that real-world test? Absolutely not.

Just like Ralph Nader... the green could win the white house, if everybody voting dem would just vote green.

Same logic is being used for DK. Yeah DK could win if all the folks who won't vote for him would vote for him.


Face the facts... DK has no charisma, he looks funny, he is unmarried, he has a grating and shrill voice, his ideas are way too far to the fringe left for even most democrats, let alone the general public and he was anti-choice.

What on earth makes you think he could win?

How does Planned Parenthood feel about him? I must confess that I don't know much about him, but am reasonably open. Tell me which feminist groups support him and what flip flops on abortion did he make? This is a sticking issue for me.

Secondly, I am further left than Dean and probably fit more with Kucinich in most ways, but feel he is not electable. Studs Terkel feels the same way, BTW, and says Dean is a second choice.

Dennis was pro-life for most of his life. He stopped voting on choice issues in the house for nearly two years while he spoke with women and considered his position. He is now one of the strongest pro-choice voices in the race.


First to address your question, "Feminist Groups?"
From the site Feminists For Kucinich.

http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/feminists_4_kucinich/

snip>>>>
" Dennis Kucinich is the only candidate who not only agrees with all these points but has developed policies to support them: starting a cabinet-level Department of Peace; supporting unions and the right to organize; cutting the bloated military budget; restoring environmental regulations and launching a “Global Green Deal” to benefit developing countries; withdrawing from NAFTA and the WTO and challenging IMF/World Bank policies; repealing the “Patriot Act”; upholding Roe v. Wade; working for universal health insurance; and abolishing the racially and economically biased death penalty. "
snip>>>

And here are some of the names invlolved:

" Barbara Ehrenreich, a political essayist whose most recent book is Nickel and Dimed: Surviving in Low Wage America

Angela Gilliam, professor and scholar of Black feminist anthropology and international feminism

Ynestra King, a writer and activist specializing in environmental, feminist, and disability issues

Gail Lerner, an organizer in the global women's movement, who has worked with several United Nations agencies and international NGOs in the U.S. and abroad

Grace Paley, a writer and peace activist whose works include Enormous Changes at the Last Minute, Later That Same Day, and Just as I Thought

Rosalind Petchesky, an international feminist activist and Distinguished Professor of Political Science at Hunter College and the City University of New York

Digna Sanchez, a Latina community activist in New York, president of the Aspirante Alumni Fellowship

Meredith Tax, a novelist, essayist and international organizer of feminist writers, whose books include Rivington Street and Union Square "

---------------------------------------------------------------

As for words from Kucinich.

Here is part of his statement from April:

http://www.kucinich.us/issues/issue_rightsreproductive.htm

snip>>>>>
"The decision to terminate a pregnancy is one of the most serious decisions a woman might make. It is deeply personal. In our society, all women and all men have a right to make difficult moral decisions and make personal choices. But women will not be equal to men if this constitutionally protected right is denied."
snip>>>>


And later on the same page, a message from a female supporter

snip>>>>
"Note from Lila Garrett

"For a very long time many of us tried to convince Dennis Kucinich to run for President. He made his decision in his own way, thoughfully, after much soul searching and meticulous analysis of the issues. I love the way his mind works. I have known Dennis for many years, during all of which he has stood for peace and patience. I watched him evolve on his position on Choice, for example, the way he listened to women -- really listened. The way he opposes the Bush administration's attempt to criminalize abortion. Dennis not only adamantly opposes the criminalization of abortion, he has come to support Choice not just with lip service, but with concrete programs to move it forward. He would fund abortions for poor women through Medicaid. He would make Roe v. Wade a litmus test for judicial appointments. Once he embraces a program, he doesn't just let it happen. He makes it happen." -- April, 2003

Lila Garrett is a writer/director who headed the Southern California Americans for Democratic Action, where Dennis unveiled his "Prayer for America." She has become the Southern California Chair of the Kucinich Campaign"


Please read and make a decision for yourself. Unlike what alot of bashers say, Dennis did not immediately flip flop when he decided to run for the nomination.

thanks,

TWL

however I think i'll stick with Clark. B-)

.

and you want to reinvent the wheel?

I hung in there for DK as long as I could, gave $$ and spread the word. It's just not happening in Iowa, and if it can't happen in the midwest for an Ohio guy, then it's not happening at all.

Dean has displayed the best and the worst of the grassroots campaign model. Yes, people listen when you have numbers behind you... but it can also be threatening to those on the outside, with the "angry mob" image. Kucinich manages to propagate the "angry mob" part of it, but didn't get the numbers to back him up. I don't blame him or his supporters one bit. America obviously isn't ready for a Dennis Kucinich. Sucks, but true... we can't turn from virtual despotism to a (truly) free, elightened nation without some transition. It's a sharp corner to turn for a bumbling, ham-fisted nation.

Dean's got some rough edges, and so does America. Dean could beat Bush and the revenge would be sweet, but I'm also sorta dreading a Dean vs. Bush race, because it would be dualing messages with the same angry & divisive tone. We wouldn't progress out of our eye-for-and-eye cycle. The partisan wars will get more fierce, and the democrats will continue to wander in the woods.

I've come around to believing that a Clark presidency would be best for the nation. It won't be that revolution we all want, but it will set the right tone to allow the country to move forward. A positive tone.

tells me to go...


I'd be in Sharpton's camp before I'd be in Kucinich's camp.

I think you're one of the first to have an experience that many more will have over the next few months. So welcome!

Even if DK was leading my vote would still go to Dean. I've stated why many times and think these threads only entice hate. If you're a Kucinich supporter, good. BUT no need to go yelling from mountain to mountain that you've switched from Dean to Kucinich. When I switched from Kerry to Dean back in February I didn't alert the board, why must you do the same?

Kucinich is nowhere near the mainstream of even Democrats.

Not because the Democratic party is too liberal!

The DK train -

then crashes into a the back of sharpton's train and derails... lucky it was only 2% full.

I would never consider switching to Kucinich. He is way too far left for even me and wouldn't stand a chance against Bush. If people want to know who the George McGovern in this race is, look no further than Dennis the K.

are going well for Bush, ANYONE will be McGovern/Dukakis/Mondale. Even your boy Mr Republican or HoHo. It's not about Dennis K. being electable, that's hooey.

I am from Wisconsin. There is no way in hell he would win here with his stances. Gore almost lost the state to Bush and Kucinich wouldn't come close. I can construct scenarios for Clark, Dean, and even Kerry to win the states we need, but Kucinich is not even competitive. Even with favorable conditions we get maybe 40% of the vote and about six states. Sorry, he is not the guy.

.

talking point that's been making the rounds from DK's camp.


"When people tried to raise the issue of the confederate flag gaffe, we were shut down. Absolutely nothing was accomplished. "

LOL! SO you went to a meetup for Dean and tried to rehash the confederate flag talking points and were shut down? No mention of how you were shut down or quotes of your words or responses... just that you were shut down.


Sorry, I'm not buying it.

Search through my posts... You will see that I supported Dean..

Since I saw Kucinich speak in the first debate, I immediately warmed to him. His values are in sync with mine. But I too have thought that he can't be elected, so I opted to support Dean. And his campaign has been awesome.

But sometimes I think Dean flip-flops on issues too much, and I didn't like how he originally handled himself with the Confederate flag comment.

And now I don't really know who to support. For me, it's a toss-up between Dean and Clark, because they seem the most "electable," but in my heart I support Kucinich. So now I don't know what to do. My vote is up for grabs.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

But I am sticking with Dean.

I like Clark also.

Some combo of these 2 is probably our best bet.

The Kucinich campaign would be going places as far as money is concerned. Good luck to your two picks, I hope more people come to realize that Dennis is for real though.

At a recent Dem event in Seattle, where Kucinich was the guest speaker, I must have talked to 4-5 Dean supporters who were on board for electability reasons. Policy-wise they were all with Kucinich.

but yes it is very true. I find it to be true and I didnt mean it offensively but Ive heard this said many times. I'll quote Molly Ivins: vote your conscience in the primaries and vote for the party I think in the general. I forget.

Although I'm a moderate Democrat, I believe that Dennis should speak at the convention. The Dem train needs to be long enough to carry progressives, liberals, and moderates. Sorry no confederates though:)

wouldnt that be nice.

Kucinich is too ideological to do what is neccessary to take Bush* down, IMHO.

I'm speaking partially about his attacks on Dems who try to make the playing field against Bush's $200 million a bit more even by opting out of matching funds' spending limits.

Opting out of matching funds is one thing, but when you've already promised to make an issue out of any Democrats who decide to skip public financing how can you justify doing that yourself?

You mean because he made Dean's threatening statements come back to haunt him?

Speaking of ideologues, pal....

at Dean and Kucinich meet-ups several months ago...

Im with Dennis!

liberalcapitalist!

"If EVERYONE who felt this way stood up and support Kucinich, he would be among the frontrunners. I will vote for the lesser of two evils if need be in November, but not before!"

Amen.

:toast:

like the others because he's considered a long shot.

But, I do respect your decision.

Ok you made an extremely empty accusation.
Please explaing two things.

1)What he appears to be.
2)What he really is.

Thank you.


TWL

I think you'll be pleased with your choice. It has been very gratifying to find a candidate that I can support unreservedly. Dennis is a man of principles and to me represents the best of the Democratic party.

Does this mean I have to switch to Dean first and then back to Kucinich?

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Welcome fellow Kucitizen! :hi:

Sorry. I can't support someone who admits that any spiritual or religious belief should be used to influence public policy. I'd love to see him in the cabinet, even as a VP, but not in the hot seat. He's a leader, but he's not THE leader.

Please don't take this personally if you're religious, but it's really easy for EVERYONE to forget that "not everyone thinks and believes like me." This is a pluralistic society, and a lot of our * problems come from his inability to conceive of a world that isn't white, male, rich, and evangelical, born-again Xtian.

We who have alternative beliefs already fight an uphill battle for recognition and the right to be left alone to practice as we please. Strong religious fervor in the White House makes our battle harder.

Much as I wish it were, this isn't the West Wing. (Bartlet for president!) It's hard, hard, hard to leave your beliefs at the Oval Office Door. Therefore, the most secular candidate is my choice. Right now, that's Dean/Braun/Clark. Edwards isn't far off.

Politicat.

He said spiritual values should play a role in blah blah blah, NOT religious.

The difference is dogma. There is no dogma in spirituality.

It's really exciting to see Dennis' support growing and that people are willing to vote their conscience. :)

And Dennis is very pragmatic. He has plans and strategies to accomplish what he has put forth in his platform. He can pass the plans he wants if we all stay off our duffs and get out there and get a Dem congress elected this time. He's gonna need our support there even after he is elected. We have to sustain the momentum!!

He will win power, one way or another, as he represents the truth and it is an unstoppable force.

I've back my registration card to vote his cause in the primary. Mr. Kucinich is the right way to go... and if america chooses to go adharma, then it becomes, as you say "a question of lesser evils" but until then Dennis rocks.

... and long after then, Dennis rocks. I love all of you Kucinich supporters. You are my heros.