Has the U.S. lost the war in Iraq?

A few days ago when the U.S. decided to show it's prowess by bombing the desert(Show of force), I thought that was an acknowledgment of our failure in Iraq. And now with two days of bombing Baghdad and killing even more innocent Iraqi's, I am thoroughly convinced that we have lost miserably. From now on it will be one feeble attempt after another to try to save face, in the process further decimating Iraq and it's peoples.

The U.S. has to give the U.N. whatever it wants and get the troops out of there, now! We can't afford anymore wasted lives just to bolster Bush's lies and miserable failures.

BTW, When will O'reilly publicly kiss Janean Garoffalo's butt? Remember pre-war? When he had her on his show and he so smugly asked her if she was prepared to admit that her and her ilk were wrong, when the Iraqi's greet us with open arms and throwing rose petals? What a tool.

It will never happen. I heard our local talk radio nutcase conservative ("Dr" bill wattenberg) - already saying that it is the 'Liberal handwringers' that are holding us back from using the types of 'tactics' needed to subdue the insurgents.

Heard that one before? Yes you have.

"We lost in Vietnam cuz of them damn libruls"

Any 'loss' will be blamed on the 'spineless liberals' for not nuking the whole place. Just like it was in vietnam.

I have heard that blowhard go on and on about things that he had no clue about. He can't admit when he doesn't know the answer to a question. I can't stand him.

Furthermore, Liberal hand wringing?! Excuse me but who runs every part of the Government? The Republicans, that's who. Who has given the Republicans everything that they have wanted?! The Democrats, that's who. So save it fartenburg, you're an idiot. This is the Republicans mess 100%.

Ugh, yeah that guy is a piece of shit.

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But the truth is to easy to point out. Who rushed into Baghdad? Bush did.

and point out that after 'liberation', you have to be 'liberal', by definition. Use of any other tactics means it's an invasion and occupation.

what Wattenberg is saying is that if they go in and do things that might be seen as unethical, that us liberals will pillory them for doing it. Pillorying them will only be effective if the majority of Americans feel the same way that we do. So what he is really saying is that the people of the United States will not allow them to act like ruthless thugs.

Didn't you see the banner that said "Mission Accomplished"?!?

For the upteenth time, why would the banner lie to us?!? </sarcasm>

We don't lose wars unless Democrats start them. Don't you read Ann Coulter?

not.

It is wrong and we can't win. We are just spilling our blood in the sand for nothing.

and make all that nice oil radioactive.

He got billions for Halliburton and Bechtel, he raped the oil, now he'll bail like they always do when the going gets rough. Bunch of cowards and chickenhawks

right before I wipe myself with pages from her books.

Ike got us involved in Viet Nam, granted Kennedy escalated our presence but it was Ike that commited the US in the first place.

In 1963, 16,500 American soldiers were in Viet Nam and there were 76 servicemen killed. By the end of 1967, there were 500,000 soldiers fighting in Viet Nam and 9353 killed that year alone. Kennedy had said all along that the war was the Vietnamese to win or lose. How can anyone think he would have supported such an escalation?

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2003/09/02/facing_the_truth_about_iraq/

Facing the truth about Iraq
By James Carroll, 9/2/2003

THE WAR IS LOST. By most measures of what the Bush administration forecast for its adventure in Iraq, it is already a failure.

snip

The question for Americans is, Now what? Democrats and Republicans alike want to send in more US soldiers. Some voices are raised in the hope that the occupation can be more fully "internationalized," which remains unlikely while Washington retains absolute control. But those who would rush belligerent reinforcements to Iraq are making the age-old mistake.

When brutal force generates resistance, the first impulse is to increase force levels. But, as the history of conflicts like this shows, that will result only in increased resistance. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld has rejected the option of more troops for now, but, in the name of force-protection, the pressures for escalation will build as US casualties mount. The present heartbreak of one or two GI deaths a day will seem benign when suicide bombers, mortar shells, or even heavier missile fire find their ways into barracks and mess halls.

Either reinforcements will be sent to the occupation, or present forces will loosen the restraints with which they reply to provocation. Both responses will generate more bloodshed and only postpone the day when the United States must face the truth of its situation.

snip

Sooner or later, the United States must admit that it has made a terrible mistake in Iraq, and it must move quickly to undo it. That means the United States must yield not only command of the occupation force, but participation in it. The United States must renounce any claim to power or even influence over Iraq, including Iraqi oil. The United States must accept the humiliation that would surely accompany its being replaced in Iraq by the very nations it denigrated in the build-up to the war.

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Eloriel

This man saw it coming, word for word. Great post.

the answer of course is "no."

The spin is so fast, it's making my head spin.

will only compound the problems.

The only goal this administration has ever had or will ever have in Iraq is control of the Oil that's it nothing more and nothing less
and if Brave Americans are willing to die for this then their more than happy to oblige. As for the innocent Iraqi's Greed before all could easily be the motto of this administration.

If the shoe fits.

We can't take too much of this "success" over there, don't you think?

And what's with this bullpukey spin "attacks are escalating because of our success". What success? And how would the "terrorists" know of these US led success stories? It's a whole lot of crap.

If we leave and Iraq is still an undemocratic mess, then we lost. If we leave and Iraq is a democracy and nominally stable then it will be a victory, however ill concieved.

However, the puppet council can't seem to come to any Democratic consensus on how to divide power. But I agree with you.

But I think that the US is getting invloved in a new Vietnam. There is no way to ever beat the people of a nation they inhabit. Can you think of a war that has been won in such a fashion (seriously I wanna know).

If the US can establish a decent government and a stable situation quick, they will not have lost...otherwise....bye bye.

in Iraq, in most places it is the opposite, of course that could change. Nonetheless, in Vietnam the communists were seen as the liberators and we were no. In Iraq the balance is tipped in our favor, though you are right; we do have a small window.

I was too quick to make the points and didn't think about the ramifications of my argument. What I meant to say is that the people IN Irag are not going anywhere. They will always be there and will always hate the US (not all the people just a per cent of them that can cause trouble.) So I think the US needs to set a GOOD government and get the fuck out ASAP.

however if it is going to take along time than we have to stay the distance and incorporate the UN and lots of non-western nations.

with the first bomb dropped.

Poor planning, half-assed execution, half-assed reconstruction (unless it involved oil)...it's a wonder the shit didn't hit the fan looooooong before now.

There were not national security justifications for launching this war and sacrificing our troops. There may be some benefits from the war, but the negative consequences far outweigh any positives. The war has hurt the US standing in the world, and probably decreased our security. The war was unjustified, and the best we can do now is mitigate the damage we have done. We should begin this by throwing the neocon cabal into the street and placing a more enlightened group in charge. The US must acknowledge its mistakes to the world, and seek international assistance to transition Iraq to self-rule.

We must acknowledge to the world what tyrrants we are. And must assist the U.N. in stabilizing Iraq, not the other way around.

Western infidels occupying a muslim country will never succeed.

This idiotic adventure is going to be a bloody reminder that we have forgotten Vietnam.