Howard Dean's Quagmire

I don't like Saletan, but I thought his column was interesting inasmuch as one can see the issues the Republicans will attempt to use against Dean should he win the nomination. Medicare, elitist background, and the rollback of the middle class tax cuts make the list.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2091141/

If you like postwar Iraq, you'll love the rest of Howard Dean's presidential campaign.

It's ironic that Dean made his name opposing the war. His campaign bears a striking resemblance to it. Skeptics said toppling Saddam Hussein would take months, but it was over in a flash. The same seems true of the Democratic presidential contest. Dean has blown away his competitors in the money race. He's tied with Dick Gephardt in the polls in Iowa—Dean will probably win it—and he's killing John Kerry in New Hampshire. Today in the ballroom of the Mayflower Hotel in Washington, D.C., Dean gets the joint endorsement of two powerful labor unions. Their message is: The race is over. Dean has the magic, the money, and now the muscle. The atmosphere is celebratory. The only thing missing is a banner declaring, "Mission Accomplished."

But the mission isn't accomplished, any more than it was in Iraq. Dean has toppled the previous front-runners, just as Bush toppled Saddam. Now the attacking is over, and the defending begins. And as Bush knows, the postwar can turn a lot uglier than the war.

What does Dean need defending against? You name it. Gephardt has dredged up quotes in which Dean bashed Medicare and said he would consider raising the Social Security retirement age. So, Andy Stern, president of the Service Employees International Union, brags onstage that SEIU's endorsement gives Dean the support of the country's biggest health care union. Gerald McEntee, president of the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees, says Dean will make sure Medicare and Social Security are "adequately funded." The testimonials reek of defensive language. In his speech, Stern says his members are "totally comfortable" with Dean's positions on health care issues. That's like a white person saying he's "totally comfortable" with the black family next door.

more...

I know it's popular here to dismiss the War on Terror but it's an issue. Dean's laisse faire attitude toward American security makes him a loser.

Dems who agree with Bush prove Bush is strong on national security. they don't prove they are.

against us" nationalistic garbage, does NOT mean he will not be a stronger fighter against terrorism than the current chimp in chief.

Just because he (along with most americans and the rest of the entire world!) doesn't think we should be an isolationist, go it alone, cowboy country who pre-emptively attacks nations who can't defend themselves, doesn't mean that he's WEAK on fighting terrorism or that he's against war under any and all circumstances.

attacking and occupying iraq had nothing to do with protecting america. it had everything to do with the bush family making more oil profits.

is dead in the water. A loser before they even get out of the gate. That Saletan so lightly glossed over that issue in his article indicates to me that it is the real issue Dean will be demolished with.

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that's just one of many stupid and irresponsible things Dean has said.
It is unacceptable to even suggest that you would accept that possibile erosion of America's military. I am sorry but it is completely out to lunch and contrary to any responsible attitude towards America's security.
Rove will lay waste to Dean with that abominable statement.

when he said that is being disingenuous.

One would think that Dean has come down from another planet and speaks in a language few can understand. Their disdain for the man is so evident that it seeps out of every word that the Dean Haterz write.

Dean's point, which shouldn't even need to be clarified:

Bush has managed to alienate a signifigant number of countries. If we continue with our current foreign policy, we won't have the most powerful military in the world, because other countries are going to team up against us.

This is completely true, and despite the fact that Dean is speaking the truth here, people will actually CHANGE THEIR PHILOSOPHY if it overlaps with Dean's. People will suddenly start talking like the right wingers, crying that this is an absurd and terrible statement that will bring him down. It's a load of CRAP to say that, and that's because Dean is RIGHT. Bush's foreign policy could very well lead to the ruin of our military relative to the rest of the world. And rathre than admit that alarming fact, you'll jump on the administrations side and PRETEND that this is a TERRIBLE and SHOCKING thing to say. Phooey on you.

and he should never have said it. Period.
Good luck unspinning it to less than sympathetic ears.

and Iran. What military will we have left??!!! Dean is calling a spade a spade. We can't go around dominating the world and expect to have the biggest, greatest military. Last I checked, the rest of the world outnumbers the u.s.

The u.s. /= the world

No one should speak the plain truth. That's a cardinal sin! No wonder you support Kerry.

I'm not sure what got this message deleted earlier, but let me repeat - that what Dr. Dean said about the US military is not only true, it's proven by any look at history.

If you want to vote for a candidate that ignores history and prefers lies, vote for Bush!

as do, I'm pretty close to certain, most ALL Americans. A lot of liberals too.

As they say on MST 3k, "I'll alert the media."

Especially the governor from a state of 600,000 white people who STILL wants to be the candidate of white guys in pickup trucks with confederate flags.

Saletan is right about this: Bush will win this fight.

"On its own, I don't think this class mismatch will kill Dean in a general election. But in combination with his position on Bush's tax cuts, it's fatal. McEntee says the rich made out like bandits under the tax cuts "while the rest of us are kind of lucky to get a dime." Dean tells the crowd, "Sixty percent of us got $304. And you know what? You didn't even get $304," since state and property taxes went up to compensate for lost revenue. On its face, it's a losing argument: Bush gave you so little money that Dean needs to take it back. That's one postwar fight Bush can expect to win."

And as for Dean in the South, this comment he made in Tallahassee at the Civic Center on November 4th will be played by the GOP over and over again:

"The South has got to stop basing their votes on "race, God, guns and gays."

This is a monumentally stupid thing to say. It is like waving a red flag in front of a bull, and you can bet that Karl Rove was ecstatic when he learned of this major Dean gaffe.

The GOP has already homed in on the God part of this statement, as noted by Ginny Wolf, former NRCC Communications Director, who hails from South Carolina. You can listen to her remarks on a C-Span video about the Debate on the '04 Senate Elections at http://www.c-span.org Wolf begins speaking around 12:50 into the tape.

One of the big criticisms I'm hearing about Bush is that he never tells us straight what things are going to cost. He keeps hammering the idea that we can get through a recession and a war without surrendering any of our luxuries or paying any money, and people are not being fooled by it. People know that money has to come from somewhere and that hard times require sacrifice.

You really have to listen to one of Dean's speeches rather than just telling us what the GOP are going to say about him. He constantly speaks of empowering the people and he's not afraid to tell us that it requires effort and sacrifice. Polls have shown that people are willing to pay higher taxes if they think the money would be used well. This isn't about who gives the taxpayers the most money. It's about taxpayers being proud of how that money is being used, and right now there starting to see what Bush bought with his $304.

And anyone who thinks this will not be the major thrust of a GOP campaign against Dean, if wins the nomination, is in denial.

Then again, the Democratic party has a history of doing that.

Thank you! I'm a little tired of the underlying assumption among these candidate bashers that the american people are just too stupid to see through Bushco's shit. Oh, but if Kerry wins the nomination, he'll use his Propaganda Immunity Power-Up that he and only he has.

Apparently that power-up comes in the form of a Harley or some shit.

"Dean bashing!" "Dean Bashing!"

1) The idea that Dean is going to lose because he has blue blood might hold water if he were running against Bob Dole or Richard Nixon: someone with a working class background. But in a race against *, I don't see blue blood as a campaign issue. I don't think anybody could out-blue blood the Bush family.

2) Dean's problematic stance will not be the war in Iraq, rather it will be his claim that all tax cuts should be repealed. We cannot win that debate I don't care how articulate and inspiring he is. That allows the terms of the debate to be shifted by Karl Rove to suggest that Dean favors higher middle class taxes instead of having the debate that we ought to have about the tax cuts being a reckless giveaway for the rich. There is still time for him to alter his position on the issue without much damage being done.

Dean wants to "raise taxes" a little more than some of the others… BFD.

they will all be painted the same way by the Bush/Rove machine.

the bigger difference is how each candidate will fight back.

In this area I think Dean would be the strongest.

btw,>50% of Americans favor repeal of Bush's tax cuts in favor of healthcare & paying down the deficit.

Don't know if he'll use it, but he's consistently said he wants to repeal the Bush tax cuts. Some of the tax cuts that were passed were added by democrats. He may choose to keep the democratic tax cuts.

However, he is shooting straight when he says the problem with politicians is they promise everything but don't say how they are going to pay for it. Dean is upfront about saying that we can't have tax cuts, and a balanced budget and health care. People undersand that.

Yes, gloom and doom, sturm und drang, woe is us. Boo hoo.

Why is it every podium pundit thinks they are delivering the words of the Prophets by incessantly intoning what an uphill battle Dean faces to unseat the smirking child? Is this really news?

Saletan is a maggot. His pieces aren't usually worth the hard drive space thay are saved on. This is no different. From the lofty offices of Salon comes another stone-tablet inscribed missive on what awaits Dean; and we, the fearful yet hungry slaves, are eagerly trying to hide the golden calf from his eyes as we pretend to be wowed and enlightened.

Yes, William, we know that Dean has made statements in the past that will be a challenge to defend. Welcome to politics. But you have to ask yourself, does William Saletan know more than the unions themselves? Is he blessed with some form of superior politikunde that is so far above the grasp of the leaders of two of the biggest unions in the US, that they need to listen up and reconsider endorsing Dean?

How DID we ever get along before William Saletan was around to tell us how to live?

And the issues facing the country require someone with both. Bill Maher got it right.

I never heard anyone call Dean a dummy and I think it is just your impression.

This guy is running for President. Part of, you know, the whole thing is having bold policy initiatives.

Well, at least he doesn't like Bush.

that he thought Dean was "dumb" when he had him on Politically Incorrect. Maher does say now that Dean's campaign is great.

Dean's election year conversions have changed him from compromising centrist to fighting populist. Too bad his core principles and his lengthy GOP loving,centrist record don't match his current rhetoric.

And so far you just keep repeating this with no specific examples.

"Dean's election year conversions have changed him from compromising centrist to fighting populist. "

Dean was a moderate dem in VT, and he's still one... so where exactly did this conversion take place?

so don't pretend you havent received an answer

Remember when Dean refused to back up Kerry and Gore when they blasted Bush on the colossal failure at Tora Bora where Bin Laden and most of Al Qaeda escaped? Dean supported Bush instead.


 MR. RUSSERT: Do you believe the military operation in Afghanistan has been successful?
       
       GOV. DEAN: Yes, I do, and I support the president in that military operation.
       
       MR. RUSSERT: The battle of Tora Bora was successful?
       
       GOV. DEAN: I’ve seen others criticize the president. I think it’s very easy to second-guess the
       commander-in-chief at a time of war. I don’t choose to engage in doing that.

n/t

keep trying octfish.

smart enough and dedicated enough to have good grades and do well on the MCAT, sure, but determination is a major factor. And some physicians are very narrow in their interests, poorly informed about other things, or have lousy personalities. Why do you think so many are Republicans? ;-)

Most med schools only accept in-state students (in Dean's case, NY was his home state and he went to med school in NY) but most med school applicants apply to all the in-state schools and some out-of-state schools, too. Since so many apply to schools that they haven't a chance of getting into, the rejection rate is high. Thus, the myth that it's next to impossible to get into med school. But many who are rejected by some schools are accepted at one of their in-state schools.

Many others are accepted to med school the year after they finish college -- or the year after that. One guy I went to undergrad school with completed a nursing degree and worked as a nurse for a year or two before finally getting into med school. He was serious about medicine and he proved it. Many just settle for dental school or chiropractic school if they don't make med school on the first try. (Some aren't very serious, anyway, but are going into medicine to please the parents.)

A major factor in getting into med school is the interview. Many students have good grades and good MCATs but bomb their interviews. I read an article that said that the admissions guy at Albert Einstein Medical College was very impressed with Howard Dean -- still remembered him after all this time. As I recall, he had been doing volunteer work in a hospital, something that always goes over well with med school admissions people. So Howard interviewed well and that overshadowed his grades at Yale (which I believe that I've read were mediocre.) Before applying, he took several science courses, which probably helped his MCAT scores considerably. He might have taken one of those coaching courses for the MCAT, too. Most "pre-meds" take those courses.

Some physicians will admit that getting into med school was harder than getting through med school. They work you hard in med school but my old lab partner in organic chemistry went to a prestigious private med school and he told me that once you're in, you realize that C = M.D. In other words, you no longer have to try to get the highest A in every class. The guy (or gal) who's last in the class will still be an M.D. Physicians-to-be also learn in undergrad school to get in study groups with the smartest people they can. I wouldn't be surprised if Howard had a study group, or perhaps just studied with his girlfriend (now his wife and an M.D. herself.)

As a group, doctors are smarter than average but their intelligence is also overestimated. I think this applies to Howard Dean, M.D., as much as any other physician.

Zero experience in what? No one running has any experience as president! Isn't all that smart? Please share his IQ and test scores. You're so funny!

Not!! Hahaha!! Liken a Dean presidency to post-war Iraq? You mean the war that is now a quagmire? The war Dean has been speaking out against while all the others quivered in their amibitions and wrote Jr a check to launch? hahahaha Oh the irony!!

This article is slop. No surprise to see Dean haterz, especially a few Kerry-cultists (not to be confused with plain ol' supporters) totally missing the irony in this article and praising what is propaganda as some intelligent piece of work. No surprise at all.

Julie

I say the article is hogwash, but not because of his critic of the Dean candidacy, but because Dean hasn't won the nomination, in fact, he is far from the nomination. Winning Iowa and/or New Hampshire do not get the Democrat the nod.

If after Feb. 3rd Dean is far in the lead, then yes, I don't think he will be beaten. If Clark takes South Carolina and Oklahoma, and does well in Arizona, then delegate count will mean everything.

Also on Feb. 3rd is Missouri, with 105 delegates. That's a lot of delegates that Gephardt will get.

Unless we have some major dropouts, this thing could go to March...heck it could go to the convention before it is decided.

I went back and read some of Saletan's Slate articles, and found him to be more pro Dean than not.

Which made the rants against him seem strange.

Or maybe not.

by disparaging them. That's why he's so schizo on Dean. When Dean's in his leftist rhetoric mode, Saletan derides him, and when Dean fits into Saletan's centrism, he gets praised.

Speaking of black families, that's the next item on Dean's damage control list. I thought the flap over Dean's embrace of "guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks" was unfair, but he's taking no chances. More than half the workers on stage with him are black or Latino. As Dean ascends the stage, he reaches back to clasp and raise the hand not of Stern, the white man next to him, but of a black woman in the row behind him. Then Dean spends an unusually long time talking about the civil rights movement and its icons: MLK, the four girls in Birmingham, the Voting Rights Act, Thurgood Marshall. The awkward moment comes when Dean says accusingly of Bush, "The word 'quota' is a race-coded word!" Well, yes. So is "Confederate flag."

<>

Apparently, this isn't something new. This from The Nation a couple of months ago.

Then there was the Imageering 101 political staging, a subject of much snickering in the press pool. At most every stop Dean had a statistically accurate multicultural microcosm await his arrival on stage, usually against a background of a giant American flag. Milwaukee, the second stop on the tour, was the most painful: seventeen supporters of various races (in proper proportions: three blacks, two Hispanics, etc.), frozen and seemingly afraid to move or make a face against the backdrop of a mammoth Old Glory. Watching them wait for Dean gave me shivers; they looked like sausages nailed to a giant red, white and blue crucifix.

The funny thing about this was that when I pointed out these behaviors to Dean supporters, they rarely failed to admit to being turned off by them. At best they were indifferent, distantly aware that these gags were being staged for some other mystical personage "out there" who would be convinced by them.

"Does that do anything for you, you know, seeing an ethnically mixed bunch of people standing in front of a big flag?" I asked 18-year-old Megan Colvin in Milwaukee.

She shrugged. "Well, no," she said. "But I think he's trying to say something about diversity."

"But," I said, "he's trying to say it to you, isn't he?"

"I guess," she said.

Michael Hurwitz was a Dean staffer at the rally in Falls Church. I found him tending the back entrance to the stage, where, before the speech, the multicultural poster group was milling about, waiting to go on.

"Let me ask you a question," I said, pointing. "How does this work? Does someone on the staff say, 'I need two wheelchairs, three blacks and a cheerleader? Who does that job? And how do they pitch it to the actual people?"

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20031006&c=5&s=taibbi

<>

All campaigns do this kind of stuff, they are all annoying for this reason, and you know it.

You post on almost nothing except to attack Dean.

The only profiles of candidates that don't include some criticism are ones done specifically for that person's campaign.

Yes, all campaigns "do this kind of stuff" but this journaalist found what Dean's campaign did annoying enough to comment on it. Send him to report on someone else and he'll tell you what he didn't like about that person.

Personally, I find Dean's arrogant bashing of other Democrats the most annoying part of his campaign. He has overdone that part of his campaign and I don't think "feisty little bastards" appeal to the majority of the electorate. I don't like him because I don't think he can beat Bush. I want a candidate who'll win.

Bush/Rove launch one against Dean.

Dean is usually steps ahead of his competition and that will be true of Bush/Rove.

While a large percentage of Dean's rhetoric has been attacking other Democrats.

Not only has Clark been effectively taking apart Junior he's been producing DETAILED policy papers and is without a doubt MORE KNOWLEDGABLE than Dean and every other Democrat running with the exception of Kerry.

And that's where Dean is out of his depth. Here's what he said on MTP July 2002, when he refused to back up Kerry and Gore's scathing criticisms of Bush's military strategy. Mind you, the failure at Tora Bora is THEE reason that Bin Laden and Al Qaeda is still threatening the US.


 MR. RUSSERT: Do you believe the military operation in Afghanistan has been successful?
       
       GOV. DEAN: Yes, I do, and I support the president in that military operation.
       
       MR. RUSSERT: The battle of Tora Bora was successful?
       
       GOV. DEAN: I’ve seen others criticize the president. I think it’s very easy to second-guess the
       commander-in-chief at a time of war. I don’t choose to engage in doing that.

shows the free ride he's getting from the VRWC media.

.

Again.

Dean "bashed" Medicare? For crissakes he was a frickin physician for years....

Big difference in saying the administration of a system (Medicare) is failing and doesn't work and saying I hate Medicare as a program. But why let the facts get in the way of hating Dean because he's from a "white" state?

Bush WILL be swept from office..but not if there is computer voting throughout the country , which will be rigged.

office? Does he say IF we'll get robbed of our votes by the computers?

Actually, it's a great prediction. If Bush* loses, Vidal was right. If Bush* wins, it was those damned computers and Vidal was still right!

(I would like to know how he knew Bush*-Gore would be Hayes-Tilden deja vu.)

Load of crap. This is simply a variation of the "peaked too soon" meme. Anybody who is paying attention has seen just the opposite message from the Dean camp... that we're just getting started and the hardest work is ahead of us.

All we've done is prove what we can do, now we have to do it. We have a long road ahead to win the primary and to beat bush.

"Gephardt has dredged up quotes in which Dean bashed Medicare and said he would consider raising the Social Security retirement age."

In other words, the best they've got is decade old misrepresented quotes with which to attack Dean.

Every day, at least one supporters posts about how Dean has won already.

Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean....

Drives 'em nuts!

if he posts something I agree with, no matter how wrong I think he's been in the past, no matter how of the mark he usually is, I'm going to post his words becaus ethey fit right into my agenda. In no way do they suggest that I might be a little off the mark on this one. I'm willing to trust anyone who supports me.

Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.

Bertrand Russell, Unpopular Essays (1950), "Outline of Intellectual Rubbish"

would go after the candidate who currently appears to have the best shot at winning the nomination. After reading your compelling argument, I'm now convinced guess we shouldn't discuss these things until after the convention. No point knowing a candidate's weak points until it's too late to do anything about it. From now on, I'll post only from the Dean blog and nowhere else.

Facts are stupid things.

Ronald Reagan.

I didn't read the whole article because I don't think I could roll my eyes any further back in my head. Comparing Dean's campaign to the war in Iraq? What a steaming heap of horse puckies.

I can't believe Dean or any of his supporters could be naiive enough to think that his campaign is anywhere near "Mission Accomplished." And of course he's still got battles to fight; we're in the thick of primary season, for sobbing out loud!

I agree with some Dean critics, but this is ridiculous...

quote

Speaking of black families, that's the next item on Dean's damage control list. I thought the flap over Dean's embrace of "guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks" was unfair, but he's taking no chances. More than half the workers on stage with him are black or Latino. As Dean ascends the stage, he reaches back to clasp and raise the hand not of Stern, the white man next to him, but of a black woman in the row behind him. Then Dean spends an unusually long time talking about the civil rights movement and its icons: MLK, the four girls in Birmingham, the Voting Rights Act, Thurgood Marshall. The awkward moment comes when Dean says accusingly of Bush, "The word 'quota' is a race-coded word!" Well, yes. So is "Confederate flag."

response

It has been discussed repeatedly here, and Saletin must also know, that SEIU is a union which is nearly 1/2 African American or Latino. Given that is who was endorsing him it seems to make some sense that more then half the workers would also be black or Latino. BTW weren't at least some Latina?

quote

The bigger problem is that Dean's blood is bluer than his collar. The labor guys onstage know it. That's why they brought a third union, the International Union of Painters and Allied Trades, into this event. SEIU claims 1.6 million members. AFSCME claims 1.4 million. IUPAT claims 140,000. Numerically, that's a rounding error. But symbolically, it's important. AFSCME represents government workers, and SEIU represents service workers. Without hard hats on stage, Gephardt's buddies in the manufacturing trades could easily dismiss this event as Sissies for Dean. Hence the painters, who stand behind Dean in black T-shirts and hard hats, making clear that they're not talking about van Gogh.

response

This is just plain bizarre. First, both AFSCME and SEIU have quite a few janitorial and landscaping type workers in their ranks. But one line here is awful telling to me. I made that bold. I have noticed this about a great many of Dean's critics. One DLC talked about wine sipping ghetto living supporters and now Sissies for Dean. Far too many of his critics speak in coded anti gay language for my taste. It is hard for me to take as acidental or coincidental this kind of language about a candidate who has signed a civil union law for gays. Maybe he means sissy in a purely heterosexual way. But somehow I don't think he did.

quote

What does Dean need defending against? You name it. Gephardt has dredged up quotes in which Dean bashed Medicare and said he would consider raising the Social Security retirement age. So, Andy Stern, president of the Service Employees International Union, brags onstage that SEIU's endorsement gives Dean the support of the country's biggest health care union. Gerald McEntee, president of the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees, says Dean will make sure Medicare and Social Security are "adequately funded." The testimonials reek of defensive language. In his speech, Stern says his members are "totally comfortable" with Dean's positions on health care issues. That's like a white person saying he's "totally comfortable" with the black family next door.

response

Saletin wants you to believe that the union endorosed Dean and then found out about the Medicare comments. As we all know that is false they knew about them for months. As we all did. In short, they decided to look at Dean's record including those comments and endorsed him. Not what one would think reading this article. Gee, wonder why he wrote it that way. I can't imagine, can you?

In short, this is Saletin at his usual, dishonest self. Though the appeal to homophobia is new.