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Chill young Jedi, the ways of the Force are many!

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It does a few things:

1) It tries to bring closure to the issue which Bush still hasn't done, which makes Bush look even worse.

2) It makes Republicans have to agree with Clinton - cheesing them off and making me happy (and pissing off their base internally)

3) It makes them look like a bunch of hypocrites (which they are) about the whole Clinton investigations.

4) It makes Clinton look more Presidential than Bush, thus the Dems

5) Meanwhile all nine Dem candidates keep the pressure on as they have (not cheesing off our base. Good Cop / Bad Cop.

Clinton has class.

He will not criticize Bush publicly, following the longstanding tradition of former presidents to not criticize their successors.

Meanwhile, Bush is a classless, drugged up moron.
I think back on the debates, and how he smirked his way through the whole thing. I remember the pompous tones he got when he criticized the Clinton administration's military action.

Now this dipshit frat boy is in the driver's seat, is fucking up spectacularly, and Clinton will not take the cheap shots.

Good cop/Bad cop, indeed. Good point.

he has cut that route off for the gop. He has foreclosed several of their developing spins and left them out on the limb without that particular retreat.

It's a TEAM sport and everyone is doing their part. Do you remember how pissed off some folk here got about Levin? And Levin's repeated use of their own words, believing them and saying 'let's get to the bottom of who stabbed Bush in the back' ... not an exact quote but that is what he was doing. Folk here HOWLED about it but his Diogones thing helped pull this thing along a little further.

Mark my words ... this will be something that will maximize the amount of POLITICAL damage done by Bonehead's gaffes.

He's rehabiliting himself & Democrats (By removing the whole Democrats are just playing politics thing) and making R's look like complete morons for using him as their defense. It's fucking brilliant.

I respectfully disagree back at you.

expect any better from him? He has always been like that.

he showed that in his 92 debates.

WHich some people around here seem to have forgotten. Or was there some other democrat that occupied the White House for 8 years in recent history that I've forgotten about?
The reactionaries on this board are so simplistic in their thinking it makes me sick to my stomach.
Clinton is dead on, as usual I might add. The American people really don't seem to identify with Uranium in Niger the way they identify with being laid off. All he is saying is there is plenty of ammo here at home to win an election. Pretty simple concept.

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Really, what do you think is more important to average Americans? Uranium or the pink slip they just got in the mail?

Of course the uranium issue is disgusting and typical of Bush. But it won't get him beat in 2004. The economy will. And I would also contend that Clinton knows a thing or two about winning national elections.

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That's a sad fact of how people are in this country but a fact nonetheless.
Both issues are important, but unfortunately I don't think this story has the legs to carry into '04. It sure can't hurt us, but then again, is it really smart to put all our eggs in one basket?

I think it's also important to remember DU is a board for activism and activists. People who are passionate about politics. Most rank and file Joe Blows aren't.

If the masses believe this myth that republicans will keep them safer everything else becomes static to their ears. But while I had the initial reaction that you did, I do wonder if it is a strategy to help the candidates who are attacking Bush on his march to war. People who have a negative knee jerk reaction to everthing Clinton says because they can't bear the thought of someone getting a blow job might be more inclined to listen to those who are not onboard with Bushco.

Or - he could be helping Bush win in '04 cause it gives Hillary a shot in '08. Maybe he feels like he owes her.

unless people believe that something similar could happen again. People buy the Bush is a good Christian routine. They believe he is sincere, and that if he lied it was "for a good reason"- to protect them. If people see this as a lie, people may believe the appropriate people owned up to it, Bush learned his lesson, and they'll trust it won't happen again. Lying is avoidable.
If people see it as a "mistake" and when it comes under a microscope there appears to be a competency issue it looks like Bush is WEAK on defense. A pattern of errors that suggest an inability to do the job indicate that there is a guarantee that this guy WILL screw up on something important again in the future. It's the competentcy stupid.

if anybody is reading this at this time, he is also directing attention directly at the quagmire of Iraq and getting it solved. In so doing, it will only point out what a mess it is. As usual, he is about 100 steps in front of everyone else. He is definitely pulling the rug out from under their "blame Clinton" mentality and showing what statesmanship is further undermining the diapered infant.

Also, what a coup if he knows something we don't, like maybe Hillary will be drafted in '04? There is nothing wrong in giving the American people the picture of a competent, popular and honestly elected President. During his conversation with Larry King and Bob Dole tonight, he also showed by example how the two parties should get along. Believe me, he's doing great, you just have to follow the dots............

:bounce:

At first I thought you a right-winger in disguise and you still may be but you very often hit the nail on the head and in this case I think you are right on. Clinton makes his share of mistakes, make no bones about it, however he is still very much an asset to the party. He is a brilliant man as long as he uses the head on his shoulders to do the thinking for him.

I am sick to death of him kissing up to the repukes.Just look at how they treated HIM,and all he can do is praise those two faced hypocrites.My advice to him would be to switch parties and get it over with. :argh:

...everyone has one, but this one stinks!

If I want to hear someone beat up President Clinton I'll go to Freakkk Republikkk.

What are you going to pin on him next, halitosis?

'She didn't fight hard enough so she had it coming' ; have I got it right? Bill had it coming to him? What a crock of shit.

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A guy who could fend off a partisan investigation for 7 years while defending this nation and giving us jobs, a great economy and peace doesn't deserve to be dumped on like you just did.

Jesus.

The guy has EARNED his right to speak- quit your bitchin'.

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.

I understand where you are coming from, but I think Clinton's statement will end up being a positive thing for the reasons stated by others on this thread.

said that Bush lied because he (Bush) wanted the war. It's plainly obvious that's what Bush did. I don't buy all the hidden message bullshit. Take Clinton at his word. He encouraged the pukes, encouraged Bush, and kicked the rest of us in the groin.

and I ordinarily concur with you on most things.

Go figure but I think you are wrong about setting the party back, wrong about Starr, wrong about the election in 2K and wrong about the SOTU remarks.

:shrug:

If you want dialog about this, I would be glad to present my points.

Re: Starr ... what you are doing is forgetting the basic facts of the matter. Specifically, after Clinton was exonerated by Fiske of wrongdoing in whitewater, along with the Pilsbury Report, Sentelle and his cohorts got Fiske bounced and Starr appointed.

This was AGES before BC met Monica. This was ages before he'd even been caught doing something tacky. It was a fait accompli BEFORE any of that stuff happened. Thus, we see Starr and his witch hunt existing before any Clinton "wrong doing" which demonstrates where it came from. Thus, since Starr and the witch hunt existed without any wrong doing on the part of Clinton, that is really something that I find hard to finger-point about.

Maybe your standard of evidence is different.

What cost Al Gore the presidency?

How many TIMES have we been around that particular bush without any conclusions whatsoever. Maybe Bill created a climate that made it tough on Gore. He certainly provided a decent electoral climate economically and every other way so that balances out the other. BC would have beated Bush. I do not know why Gore did not although there are many, many possibilities. I tend to view it as a soup base brewed from all of the possibilities.

As far as the SOTU flap, I have posted my views on this in other threads and do not want to spend more bandwidth by reasserting a previously position.

Just how I see it.

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...as it attempts to bring to justice the most corrupt admin. in history.

- Some of you just plain refuse to say anything but 'yum' as you take another bite of the shit sandwich served by the Bush* junta.

- The negatives far outweigh the positives. Clinton needs to go away and write a friggin book about how he gave our government to the Neocons.

Bill wasn't persecuted because of an affair. It was the ONLY thing they could get him on.

There was NO answer he could have given.

If he had gotten out of the affair, they would have got him for jaywalking.

IT. WAS. A. SETUP.

And Bill didn't cost Gore the presidency. Gore's fear of standing close to Bill during the election cost him votes. Ultimately, to my great sorrow, Gore didn't have the cohones to fight the bastards. He wasn't quick enough to unspin their lies and toss them back.

Clinton stayed strong for an eight year crucifixion and he owes us nothing.

You're a Republican ventriloquist's dummy and you don't even know it.

Gore's "fear of standing close to Bill" is total fabrication. He mentioned Clinton and their record in every campaign speech. He didn't need to run as a great vice pres, but in his own right.

Since he got more votes than Clinton ever did, your argument makes no sense. Let us pretend that Gore actually did fail to use Clinton in his campaign. Then if you annalyze the results, that Gore got a bigger vote than either bush or Clinton (in either of his races),
you have to abbandon your thesis, because it would prove that avoiding Clinton was actually a good tactic.

he had the best economy in the history of the country ... hell, maybe the world, and peace abroad. Those are pretty powerful political gifts he gave to the VP. Very formidible gifts.

But you swept right past my larger point ... or perhaps not :shrug: ... that Starr and his crud existed initially not from any misbehavior of Clinton but because of the outrage the gop felt when he won the 1992 election.

And yeah, BC fucked up with Monica ... everyone including him knows this. I disagree about whether or not the finger-shaking fib (which actually isn't a fib) was a crucial thing for him to do.

When the story first broke ... I remember it vividly ... during that first week, there was serious momentum from the media for resignation. BC apparently did not think he should have resigned and I agree with him completely on that ... and he uttered the lie.

What was the short term effect of the 'fib'?

It stopped serious talk of resignation. It bought him some time to gt his shit together and to break the momentum of events. It was exactly what I would have done had I though of it. I don't know if I could've been that bold and creative.

But hey ... I guess this is why they have both chocolate AND strawberry ice cream, eh?

Denying the affair with Monica Lewinsky while buying time to build a defense and public support was tactically brilliant. He couldn't admit to the affair while the long knives were out.

brilliantly. What would you have him do? Accuse Bush of lying? That would play right into the Repugs hands. Take all the heat off Bush and give them opportunity to rehash the whole Lewinsky thing all over again. Now they are HIDING behind his "support". Man, that has got to gall them.
He told us to keep looking at the war. All the evidence is there. All we need to destroy Dubya. What we need now is some action in Congress.

Enough some days to take your breath away.

- Then please tell us why Clinton had to come out with a soundbite for the Bushies just as the Dems in congress were hot on bush's trail and demanding investigations?

- Worship at the Clinton alter if you must...but he's harming...not helping the efforts to bring the Bushies to justice.

lighten up.

I know that this view is not popular with you and some others here but this is my perception.

1) Bill and Hillary Clinton know with more certainty that virtually anyone else in the country, exactly how vicious, voracious, and dirty the gops are.

2) He personally despises their party for the crud they dished out to him forever, the lies, the slanders, the attacks, the videos, the endless attacks on his wife, his mother, and even his daughter.

3) He is perhaps the finest political strategist alive today and maybe one of the best in history. He kept a 65% approval when he was being impeached, for God's sake. He knows exactly what to say and when to say it. He proved that over and over and over.

4) The remarks that he made cut off what was emerging as the predominant gop spin for Bonehead, that the questions were all the result of partisanship and the liberal media.

5) With Clinton's remarks to Bob Dole (btw, it was Dole's birthday and that was what the segment was about. King asked him about the other and Bill saw his chance to do this and bingo, he did it), Bonehead and his crew find themselves in the position of hiding behind what Clinton said. That effectively stops them from effectively arguing that it is partisanship.

6) Go over to the lounge and have a beer on me. Pop some corn, grab a seat and relax because I think this stuff is about to get very amusing.

Someone said he's the best Prez we've had for the last 20 years and that sounds right. But is it because we've had such other Bad Presidents in the running?

I like Clinton okay but I could just scream at the way he handled his affair in office. I was thinking about this the other day before all this came up.

I didn't like it before the attack on Iraq when he was all for going for it! And I sure as heck don't like it now when he's trying to smooth everyone's feathers, regarding bush's lies, with bullshyte!

And I say ..we have, indeed been "trying to repair the damage" that this maladministration has wrought!
:kick:

caught with his pecker out ... what would you have advised him to do?

Admit it and "Move Fucking ON"!

Headline from http://www.buzzflash.com

"Bubba Bill, Say it ain't so!"

not have worked.

Initially, his lie was an absolute necessity IF it was even a lie but why go there again. I just think that the lie bought him enough time to get his shit together and it did.

.....If I recall correctly the "illegally" taped conversations were turned over to the prosecutors the night before the Clinton interrogation......a neat little sidetracking to the rules of discovery....if Clinton were to have been prepared(discovery rules)for the Monica question I wonder if the outcome would have been much different.....Thank you for pointing out the Fisk/Sentelle relationship......Its easy to forget that the matter legally should have been stopped right then and there.....I still have reservations regarding Clintons recent remarks however hopefully the "good cop bad cop" theme is being played out.....Maybe he is just giving the current Dem. players the opportunity to define themselves as disassociated from the Clinton mantra that somehow the Pavlovian GOP reacts to.....I personaly believe that it really doesn't matter because there is too much damage in full view now to reverse course.....best wishes

stick together and support each other a few weeks ago. I guess Bill really is all about ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME......

:-)

I'll take it. That was a pretty good year, better than 2003, that's for damn sure.

Humanity, and our future. They practice pysops all the time on the masses ala Goering

Its the Pubs who lie, cheat, and steal.

no blow job, no bush. to believe otherwise is simple denial.

It got him a lot of attention during the '92 race, and a lot of guys I know thought it was cool as hell that he was getting some. It certainly nevery bothered me.

Don't even try to tell them they are only seeing the reflections on the cave wall.

from both sides. Clinton is a sleeze--almost as much as Bush--I am convinced of this now. He, nor Bush, has the good of the country in mind. All Clinton has in mind is the reputation of the Clintons, himself and Hillary, in mind. I am totally turned off to all aspects of our government as things progress--we need a revolution to get the country back on the democratic track-and that will take many many years after Bush is gone-Bush has seen to it that almost everything has been destroyed, and will take years and years to repair--if anyone feels the need to do so--so far, it looks as though not many feel that need. It is time for the storming of the bastille.

...me to this day some fuck up I made 5 or 6 years ago. I guess when someone never fucks up in their life they feel they can do shit like that to others. Must be nice.

Don

I fuck up so often, it's as though it's on purpose. It isn't. Well ... I don't think it is.

:D

with the Republicans and I think it's a brilliant move. Bill Clinton is the smartest politician around and he wouldn't do or say anything without a reason. The man they despise, the man they tried to take down for 10 years has gotten the best of them, again. The Republicans have fallen into his trap and they don't even know it.

The Repukes will play those soundbites over and over again and try to use it against the Democrats who are calling for investigations. It's going to remind everybody of what they put Bill Clinton and his family through during the impeachment hearings and Clinton will look like the bigger man.

Clinton doesn't want to be the issue here---the focus should be on the Democratic presidential candidates and he has opened up some opportunities for them to get more attentiion for themselves by bringing up the issues of the Iraq war, 9/11 and the war on terrorism and how they would deal with the situation if they get elected.

Let's face it---nobody else gets much attention when the Big Dawg is in the room.

All this week the Republicans have been quoting Clinton to defend Bush on the WMD issue. It was really pathetic!

...and this is something we should never forget. The SC acted ILLEGALLY when they circumvented the law when they stopped the LEGAL recount.

- It's too bad that Gore isn't out there speaking INSTEAD of Clinton. You have the DLC to blame for that.

Gore is preferable. Clinton won (and I would vote for him again) but he did so because of Perot. The Gore campaign had broader support than Clinton ever did.

I wondered why Bill didn't just plead the 5th. Republicans use it all the time.

In fact I just exploded in anger, and began thinking about the things he championed during his presidency that I did not agree with and that seem now to have been PNAC agenda things --- GATT, NAFTA, WTO ...... and I seriously wondered for a bit where his allegiance has really been.

After I calmed down I focused on Clinton the brilliant campaigner with the sharp, quick mind and vast storehouse of knowledge, his self-awareness, his ability to sense exactly what effect his actions will have, his sense of what is the right move to make at the right time. (No one can hold a candle to his uncanny abilities in that department.)

Then, I was able to say to myself, "OK. see how this plays out before passing judgment. He can see things I cannot see yet."

One thing he accomplished by this is to get the focus off of himself and therefore opening an opportunity for other Democrats, especially the candidates running for President, to shine. He knows that when he is center stage, he totally dominates the stage. The media was left with nothing to say about Bill Clinton, no reason to jump back on that old "Get Clinton" agenda. Let's see how the rest plays out.

I think I am probably saying the same thing others have said here, but I thought I would share the stages I went through as I reacted to what he said.

Less people had vote for Gore than bush. However more people voted for Gore than, bush, or Clinton for that matter.

He showed them how to beat the repukes at every turn. Just follow his playbook. Centrist policies and attack your opponent at every opportunity. It worked then . . . it will work now.

If he showed us how to "win", how come we lost the House, the Senate, and the White House? What have we won?

"Amid the general media and Democratic frenzy over Niger yellowcake, it is Bill Clinton who injected a note of sanity. "What happened often happens," Clinton told Larry King. "There was a disagreement between British intelligence and American intelligence. The president said it was British intelligence that said it. . . . . British intelligence still maintains that they think the nuclear story was true. I don't know what was true, what was false. I thought the White House did the right thing in just saying, 'Well, we probably shouldn't have said that.' " Big deal. End of story. End of scandal...."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43431-2003Jul24.html

Krauthammer's satisfaction should tell you who really benefited from Clinton's stupid remarks.

With hindsight I think it's absolutely clear that Gore made a decisive mistake when he didn't enlist Clinton's help in 2000. Gore got nothing from distancing himself. If Clinton had gone full tilt he might have delivered Arkansas, Tennessee, or a convincing win in Florida. And I say that as someone who wasn't a huge Clinton fan. Everyone salesman knows that you can't sell a product when you spend half of your time apologizing for its flaw, though. Or just hem and haw and look away when someone else brings them up. Gore deserves full responsibility for his mismanagement of the "Clinton problem" (and I liked Gore, wished he'd run again).

Why did Clinton say what he did on CNN? I think he spoke from conviction. However the US got into this war the US, Iraq, and the world would be better off if Iraq becomes a democracy. Those who wish for the US to fail in Iraq might have the satisfaction of feeling vindicated but they're wishing a disaster on the US and even Iraqis. Clinton can say this because he's not running for anything. There's no question, of course, that he'll back whichever Democrat gets nominated.

He NEVER would have been elected if not for the little dude from Tx.

Operation "Wag-the-Dog," uh, I mean "Desert Fox."

As I've said before, no Monica no Bush.

:kick: