What's the difference between liberal and progressive?

I'm not sure of the difference between the denoted meanings.

But I seem to see a difference between people who call themselves those things. Self-described liberals seem to emphasize racial and sexual issues. Self-identified progressives seem to believe in equal rights, but stress economic issues more. Am I on the right track?

To me, it's become a synonym for apathetic idiot. Every year, a bunch of "progressives" - many affiliated with the Green Party of Seattle - run for public office, claiming to care about political reform, the environment, etc. but offering nothing but rhetoric. They're really no different than mainstream candidates except that they lack the power and political connections. Actually, I think most are operatives, who are merely pretending to be progressives. But it's hard to tell, because it seems like there are no good progressives to compare them to!

Liberals can make peace with right wingers; progressives can't. I don't use the word progressive to describe myself, but I'm farther to the left than most liberals. I'm not a consensus-seeker. Conservatives aren't just people with a different viewpoint; they are usually wicked.

so wrong

Progressives are those that can and must reach across to the other side in order to move things forward. It's Liberals (usually Democrats specifically) that are intransigent in their political idologies.

Progressives are people who reach out to conservatives? I don't think so. Ted Kennedy is a liberal. Ralph Nader is a progressive.

And I say that as someone who voted for him in 2000 -- albeit from a "safe" state, NY.

If you want an example of a true progressive operating within the federal government, look no further than VT Independent (democratic socialist, actually) Rep. Bernie Sanders.

But Ralph Nader? Despite his campaigns for consumer safety and openness in government, I would hardly classify him as a progressive based on his hostility to unions in his workplace, his disdain for democratic processes in his professional life, and his heavyhandedness in electoral politics that has now seriously alienated even many hard-core Green Party activists.

Here are some denotations of the word liberal:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=liberal

1 Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.

2 Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and
tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.

3 Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.

4 Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.

And here is the denotation for the word progressive

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=progressive

1Moving forward; advancing.

2Proceeding in steps; continuing steadily by increments: progressive change.

3Promoting or favoring progress toward better conditions or new policies, ideas, or methods: a progressive politician; progressive business leadership.

But honestly, I think you decide what these words mean to you. Make a connotation for yourself.

are a recognition that there is a difference between one group on the left and another.

As I see it, 'liberals', as the term is often used, tends to describe persons who accept social liberation- that is, government nonintrusion into 'immoral' acts between consenting adults or other actions taking place behind closed doors- as a policy to strive toward. It has also been my own personal experience, having been part of this particular group of thought, that 'liberals' tend to have less of a concern for monetary cost of policies and more concern for the overall effect of policies as they relate to society as a whole, and in particular the socially downtrodden.

None of the above is necessarily bad, in whole or in part.

'Progressives', as I am newly having the term defined for me by personal experience and by reading other words presented by other self-described progressives, seems to me to describe those who are liberal, but also attempt to consider social and occasionally long-term political cost to their policies. 'Progressives', as I myself have seen, seem to be less drawn to far-left issues such as (for example) abolishment of corporate personhood in favor of the more centrist support of universal health care, along with a plan on how to possibly pay for that.

None of this makes progressives 'republican-lite'.

It's really your decision on what distinction to use (if any). You may even choose to use them interchangably. I see a difference; above is just my take on that. Make of it what you will :)

Some are actually convinced that by "playing nice", the right will actually allow them to exist. Silly.

It's not that progressives stress economic issues more, its that their views are what are sometimes called "radically left" or sometimes called "far left." They are social(ist) in nature, and populist.

The terms have been so brutally politicized so as to almost lose all meaning, but to try to put it in terms of examples, basically of the current contenders, Dennis Kucinich might be said to represent a "progressive" fairly well, Howard Dean might be said to reprsent a "liberal" pretty well (some might qualify "center left"), and Lieberman might be said to represent a Democratic "centrist."

So even if you don't perfectly agree with those definitions, basically the the terms are pretty much about where you sit on the scale, i.e. how far to the left you are. Progressive = pretty damned left. Liberal = basically the bread and butter Democrat. Centrist = "New Democrats, DLC, etc."

And use the word progressive as "code"

like Republicans who use the words "State's rights" to mean "segregation"

that's about the difference.

Every time this subject comes up, which seems to be every few days, the same people repeat the tired, self-congratulatory slur that Progressives simply don't have the courage, unlike those brave, noble souls who call themselves liberals, to own up to what they really are.

Bullshit.

As many of us see it, liberal means genteel, bourgeois left, and Progressive is considerably less genteel and accomodating and more blue-collar. Walter Mondale vs. Howard Zinn is another nice example.

succeded in making liberal an epithet.

if you ignore the other hundred-plus years it has been used.

That "liberals" edge in without knowing what it means it just a fringe benefit. See QC's post just above this, puts it quite well and in fewer words than I would.

The GOP turned liberal into a dirty word, but has not done so with the word progressive.

I have seen people argue both sides: that progressive is more left than liberal, and liberal is more left than progressive. But there is no definitive answer to that question.

Interestingly, the think tank of the centrist DLC is called the Progressive Policy Institute, and the more liberal alternative to the DLC is called Progressive Majority. So it appears that all sorts of people on the political left are comfortable with the term progressive to broadly describe themselves.

Of course, I realize that you folks are pretty much arguing about what a word means *in the US*, and certainly that's up to you all to decide.

But you'll never understand what goes on in the rest of the world, or be less misunderstood by the rest of the world, if you do only that.

There was an example the other day of someone who fell out with a Swedish friend because the Swede was apparently insulted by the epithet "liberal". As am I, and as was any radical in the 60s, and as are progressives everywhere, apparently.

Progressive *is* more "left" than liberal, in that "progressive", in its real and traditional sense, does involve social/economic analysis and policy that is not based only on "liberty" ... liberty being, after all, what "liberals" are named for. It involves equality, and that involves economic policy that promotes it, not just laissez-faire-ism coupled with with personal freedoms and a few welfare policies.

Liberty and equality are both good, to a progressive. Calling one's self "progressive" makes that clear. I mean, to me and a lot of other people, greater equality = progress, after all.

If anybody really has a clue what "liberal" means -- i.e. is there really any common thread among all those in the US who call themselves "liberal" (at least when there aren't any "conservatives" listening) -- I'd love to know what it is!

It just seems to me that pretty much anybody can get away with calling him/herself "liberal" if the mood strikes. We progressives have stricter standards. ;)

If only the GOP had a dictionary, it might not be so behind the times. I'll offer what the Oxford Concise has to say:

progressive favouring or implementing rapid progress or social reform.

The old "liberals in a hurry" line applied to Canada's social-democrat New Democratic Party? Nah ... that would mean that liberals were actually going somewhere. Hah.

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Progressive is a word capable of many meanings, like many other words. However, as a self-described progressive aware of the history of the word, in the modern sense it seems to be a continuation of the Socialist and Populist Parties' attitudes of the turn of the last century.

It is important to remember that the term "progressive" was quite often applied to Republican reformers, such as TR and "Fighting" Bob LaFolliette. And while progressives may have been advocates of many causes of the middle and working classes, they also had their dark side. Many were vehemently anti-immigrant, were teetotalers, and also had no qualms about the expansion of US military and imperial power.

In the modern sense, the difference could perhaps be best seen in the founding of the House Progressive Caucus by the iconoclastic socialist Representative from Vermont, Bernie Sanders. Sanders' views on most issues are not confined to ideological thinking -- as many liberals are. Rather, they are completely dedicated to improving our society through the empowerment of the middle and working classes (along with striving to increase opportunity and better the conditions of the poor), along with reining in excessive wealth and corporate power. There is also the realization inherent in this view that expanding the role of the federal government is NOT always the best way to deal with these issues.

It's that kind of thinking that makes me identify as a progressive, rather than a liberal.

Thats the new reality of the 21st century. If its broke, fix it now!
Like healthcare:
eliminate all the insurance companies and put in a single payer health plan that everyone pays into...NOW

The US government culture is overwhelmingly driven by a prodestant ethic that "through work you become closer to god." God is not here already in this thinking, rather it/she/he must be discovered by good works. This then leads us to a culture where people define themselves by what they "do"... and "doing something" is defined in this religion as better than "not doing".

From the perspective of this buddhist, "doing" or "not doing" are of equal merit in life. Though one may have ideals of a liberal, being a progressive means bringing that into manifestation one day at a time in a prodestant culture. It is a good marketing word for such a culture.

The arrogance of the presumption is also appearant in how america has created a century of self-inflicted war misery through meddling and doing things, like "invading iraq". If they did nothing, the problems they experience would diminish. Governing best often involves doing nothing, and in the absence of direction from above, citizens make a wealthy society for themselves.

That would make me a liberal, and sure i accept the term progressive... good karma yoga and all that... but also in that same note, i reject that christian dogma leeching through this cultural language.

And 'progressive' is an adjective.

Methinks ol' befree is a progressive Liberal. Meaning that as a political policy I favor a liberal viewpoint as in 'Live and Let Live' versus the conservative view of 'Get rid of all the foreigners'.

In my actions to make my government be more Liberal, progressiveness is required: Moving Liberal Ideas forward. But that's just me.