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Who is the Bill Kristol of the anti-Iraq-war movement?

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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-03 04:53 PM
Original message
Who is the Bill Kristol of the anti-Iraq-war movement?
Simple question, is there one? One or two writers/voices who is the most influential and decisive about the anti-war cause?
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-03 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. <<<crickets chirping>>>>>
Good question. I've read a lot of articles from a number of authors, but I'm not sure there is a central spokesperson people would immediately name.

Which tells us that "they" are organized with their PNAC and world takeover agenda, and we are not organized to oppose them.

They're going down anyway, mainly because their ideas are stupid, evil, unworkable, will galvanize the world to stop us, and they are also quite silly.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-03 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. ok, I disagree with your suspicions
but I thank you for your response
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RichM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-03 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. No, of course there isn't. If you're against the war, they shut you up.
You can't be too influential if they shut you up.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-03 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. who shuts you up?
They shut up Donahue but he wasn't any kind of blue-printer
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-03 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. Lewis Lapham, Molly Ivins
Many others. There HAVE been strong voices, from the get go. Lewis Lapham is first; those of you who do not subscribe to Harper's should immediately begin doing so.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-03 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Isn't harpers a literary magazine?
like, isn't it primarily about fiction?
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-03 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. NO. Harper's is the best political magazine. Check it out.
Read it for yourself. Then decide. With all due respect to The Nation, Mother Jones, et. al., Harper's is the best.
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SeveneightyWhoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-03 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Harpers rocks.
Incredible magazine, every DU'er needs to subscribe to it. I skip all the literary stuff, and go straight for the political essays, humorous tidbits, and the "Harpers Index".
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-03 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
6. Tariq Ali
.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-03 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. The Clash of the Fundamentalisms is probably the best political book
I read this year, certainly the best on the subject of US/Islamic relations. I don't think of him as influential outside the left, though I believe he should be. And I don't know how influential he is among the American left--and I believe even more strongly that he should be.
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-03 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. 'Bush in Babylon' is excellent
of course someone like Chomsky is far more influential among the American left, but his involvement with the international left is a lot more prominent and goes back decades.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-03 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. but almost noone has ever heard of these people
even news people
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SeveneightyWhoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-03 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
11. There is no leader of the anti-Iraq-war movement.
You know why? Because its hard to get one leader to represent 99.98% of the world, whereas the tiny fascist/neo-con community has no such problem.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-03 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. So everybody who believes in forcefully democratizing Iraq is a fascist?
I don't get why everybody here has to have a rant-type style to every evaluation of something they don't like
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-03 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. what do YOU call those who are "forcefully democratizing" Iraq?
Edited on Thu Nov-13-03 05:39 PM by ima_sinnic
:wtf:

first I've heard anyone on DU criticize another DUer for calling the PNACers fascists.

hmmmmm-

on edit: by the way, William "Bill" Kristol is the chairman of PNAC and a master schemer for "regime change" in Iraq--hardly "anti-Iraq war." He is also editor of The Weekly Standard, a blathering RW rag. You can hear him laying out PNAC's plans for global domination in this radio interview from NPR this past April: http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=1215563
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-03 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I know who Kristol is which is why I used him
Edited on Thu Nov-13-03 05:53 PM by Bombtrack
I figure that his foriegn policy agenda is the most diometrically apposed to that of the anti-war movement

And I don't think it's intellectually acceptable to call anyone who favored the war for the reasons that the neocons give, IE the liberalization of first Iraq, and then hopefully the region, a fascist

And you're right there aren't alot of DUers complaining about the views of others who most everyday people would consider extremist. It's one of the reasons I believe that this board is not used to any of it's potential. Because it's become a conspiracy/fringe/rant bulliten in many respects

And to answer your title question the people who are transitioning Iraq are the military, commanded by the US government.

And the republicans in the whitehouse are almost certainly assholes, but there is nothing to backup your claim that they, and anyone who supports there Iraq policy in anyway are therefor fascists
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