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jumptheshadow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 12:01 PM
Original message
If the flag desecration amendment passes
Edited on Fri Nov-14-03 12:05 PM by jumptheshadow
Will the people who display the upside down flag in their sig lines be arrested?

Would Bono have been pulled into court for displaying the American flag jacket lining at the Super Bowl?

Will anybody be able to wear any apparel that uses an American flag motif at all?

Does the amendment target burning the flag in anger or any form of expression having to do with the flag?
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. If the amendment passes
I will burn a flag in protest. I never wanted to burn a flag until people wanted to make it illegal. A flag burning law puts us in the same category as such esteemed nations as Iran, Saudi Arabia, the old Soviet Union and Saddam Hussein's Iraq.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. If we can't burn the flag
we have to burn the Constitution.
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Mattforclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. I think I would too N/T
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. Brings out the ODD in me too


I'm quite transparent...if you want me to do something, just tell me I can't!
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. If Bono is arrested for the jacket lining, Bush Sr should be, too.
Edited on Fri Nov-14-03 12:12 PM by Lars39
Remember that picture of him showing the lining of his coat at a Nascar race, or some funcion?

on edit: I really dislike seeing clothing that looks like the flag.
My last sighting was a woman wearing a scarf around her neck that literally looked like a flag.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I seem to remember a photo of shrub
signing his name on a mini American flag. I found that quite repulsive.
Is the amendment against burning only, or defined forms of desecration?
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grannylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. That is against the 'rules' of flag etiquette, see link
http://www.usflag.org/flag.etiquette.html

An exerpt:
The flag should never have placed on it, or attached to it, any mark, insignia, letter, word, number, figure, or drawing of any kind.

So yes, Shrubbie was defiling the flag by autographing it.
Let's get him!!
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Mairead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. It's not against burning at all, it's against 'desecration'
The wording is something like 'it shall be a crime to desecrate the flag of the US'. Very general.

Smirk writing on the flag should definitely qualify as desecration.

Burning, however, is the only canonical way to destroy a flag, so apart from doing something like throwing on a rubbish fire, simple burning should remain perfectly legal.
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denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. Maybe we can get some SUV drivers arrested.
The ones flying the grey, tattered remnants of flags and who eventually toss them in the trash rather than respectfully burned them like they are supposed to.
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dofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
6. Personally I think most flag emblazoned clothing
is ugly and in poor taste. But it shouldn't be outlawed. We just ought to try to get people to dress better.

And if a flag burning amendment passes, we could have enormous fun getting after the people who dispose of flags (respectfully) by burning them. Unless the flag amendment a-holes are sharp enough to make sure that kind of burning is exempt.

Dumb, dumb idea, the flag-burning amendment.
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jumptheshadow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I agree about the clothing
My mother sometimes sends me a red, white and blue top for the Fourth of July. It always winds up at the back of my closet or in a charity bag.

However, I recall back during the good old days of Vietnam war protests that some people got arrested for wearing clothing with flag motifs.

My concern is, once you start down the slippery slope, where do you wind up?
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. Would Bush have been charged for autographing Old Glory?
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
8. As in other Totalitarian States, this will be very useful for Selective
Prosecutions.

We are already accustomed to the grotesquely Soviet double-standard here in Imperial Amerika, best exemplfied by Pigboy Oxycontinboy who will NEVER go to trial, and even if he does (which I am 99% sure he won't), he will get "time served" and credit for his stay at the Hippie Rehab Hilton down there in Florida (perhaps that will have to be punishment enough for Pigboy, having to agree with all those liberals he hates in order to "get off").

Why should Flag Burning be any different than the rest of what Imperial Amerika is becoming and has become, an enclave of special privilege, aristicracy, terrible inequality and Soviet-style (if not yet level) injustice.

Flag Burning Law will only be used to prosecute "the right people"...

:puke: :puke: :puke:
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DemNoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
11. If the real concern is flag desecration
The law should first prohibit the flags use in advertizing. But, no chance of ever seeing that. What would Fox News use as a backround? Maybe a flapping image of Bush.
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adriennel Donating Member (776 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
13. etiquette
my neighbor does not take down his flag when it is raining. Can I report him? :P

lots of ratty tattered USA "car flags" around here too.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
15. how about this ?
what if someone tears up a drawing of the flag ? what if you make the flag yourself at home and then burn it ? what if you tear up the flag ?
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Peregrine Donating Member (712 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Here is the existing US Code
18 USC Sec. 700
1989 - Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 101-131, Sec. 2(a), amended subsec.
Prior to amendment, subsec. (a) read as follows:
''Whoever knowingly casts contempt upon any flag of the United States by publicly mutilating, defacing, defiling, burning, or trampling upon it shall be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.''
Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 101-131, Sec. 2(b), amended subsec. (b) generally. Prior to amendment, subsec. (b) read as follows: ''The term 'flag of the United States' as used in this section, shall include any flag, standard colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, color, or ensign of the United States of America, or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, standards, colors, or ensign of the United States of America."

If an amendment passes, this becomes federal law again.
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southpaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
18. Listen to this...
This Simpsons parody of the classic School House Rock song "I'm Just a Bill" dates back to Bush 41's effort to make flag burning a punishable offense.

go here to hear the MP3. http://www.esquilax.com/flag/amendmnt.mp3
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SEAburb Donating Member (985 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
19. Rachel Corrie burned a white piece of paper
with a few red stripes and blue outlined stars painted on it and some people thought she desecrated the US flag. It's all in the eyes of the beholder.
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Frangible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
20. I guess the first amendment is now one of those "collective rights"
"Instead I warm my hands upon the flames of the flag
As I recall our downfall
And the business that burned us all
See through the news and the views that twist reality

Enough
I call the bluff
Fuck Manifest destiny

Landlords and power whores
On my people they took turns
Dispute the suits I ignite
And then watch 'em burn"
-Rage Against the Machine, "Bombtrack"
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
21. Perhaps we should start "ticketing" flag desecrators.....
Make a real official looking citation and start sticking it on doorways that leave their flag out all the time or have a tattered and faded flag hanging from their front porch. Also good to get cars in the parking lot who are flying threadbare, faded, and tattered flags.
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