What is your view on ELF?

The Earth Liberation Front is that environmentalist organization that's even more radical (I'm using that word neutrally) than Earth First!. Its members carry out protests that include torching of private property, including SUVs and newly-built homes. I recently picked up a copy of the local anarchist newspaper, and there was this whole section that I felt cast ELF in too positive a light. So, what do you think of this organization?

In which case, I'd say thumbs-up. I've definitely stolen "Buddy the Elf, what's your favorite color?" as my phone greeting for the time being.

ELF, however, is a bunch of wackos.

Later.

RJS

They resort to desperate tactics such as burning trucks before trying other methods that would prevent people from buying gas hogs.

:)

They aren't a real organization. Most ELF/ALF "actions" are insurance fraud scams that use a false image of "radical environmentalists" as patsies for their arson and property destruction.

Carefully read the "press releases" put out by the "spokespeople" of ELF/ALF - they readily admit they don't know who did the actions, why the actions were done, nor have any contact with people claiming to do actions.

Instead, they read newspaper reports of arson or vandalism, and then guess whether or not they were done for "environmental reasons".

Really, this is the thinnest cover for insurance fraud that I have ever heard of.

I think we have a winner folks! :toast:

ya, building who are pouring hundreds of thousands of dollars into building a new home go and torch it mid construction, even though there is ZERO insurance benefit to them. And construction companies just love to torch a dozen homes in a new neighborhood they are building mid construction causing massive delays in completing the project and pissing off their customers.

And ski resort operators just love to torch millions of dollars worth of investment half way to completion and cause delays in completing their project.

ELF is no insurance scam.

So far, the only "proof" I've seen is that someone spraypainted "ELF" in the vicinity of vandalism. That's not proof of an underground eco-terrorist movement, now is it?

No proof, and the "spokespeople" freely admit they find out about "ELF actions" from the newspapers like we do.

http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/elf981022.html

I really don't know what to make of ELF. Are they real? Are they a front? Are they FBI Cointel? Their actions are despicable regardless, but it would be nice to know for sure exactly who we're dealing with.

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/team4/1775308/detail.html

Not that I am 100% discounting your assertion, but why would these scientists or some proxy set fire to the labs full of their research?

Were they corrupt scientists covering up for embezzling grant funds?

If I am to consdier this as a possibility, I need at least a semi-believable reason why the fraud would include the torching of reserch labs.

The programmers imbezzled thousands of dollars, but the evidence was hidden when the Entetech Company building burned down.

I told that sumbitch not to move my desk again......

I can't see how anyone can make money from freeing animals, but it's hardly outside of the realm of possibility. My guess would be that most of those cases are animal lovers "freeing" animals, but in either case, the people claiming to be "spokespeople" for ALF readily admit they have no contact with anyone claiming responsibility.

The point is there is NO organization called ELF/ALF, they do not have a headquarters or meetings, and in the case of animal rights people, who are actually doing actions, they don't have contact with each other and certainly have no spokespeople.

I can put up a webiste called ELF, I can read the newspapers for stories of vandalism, and put out press releases too about my imaginary group of eco-warriors, but that doesn't make it an organization.

Plus, the insurance fraud for the "ELF" vandalism actions are so obvious it's laughable how anyone can blame environmentalists for it.

I owuld say I support their goals but not their means, although sometimes you have to do some pretty nasty stuff to get the corporations' attention.

I remember when that was first posted in LBN.

I found it a little self-defeating to set fire to an automobile, releasing more chemicals into the air than that SUV would created in it's life time.

If they really cared about the environment, they would have stolen the cars, crushed them and had them melted down into a giant ELF sign, which they could fit hundreds of lightbulbs to, a la kiss.

Not that there's a huge difference.

I'd put them somewhere between the boston tea party and the weathermen. They haven't hurt anybody yet, have they?

They are just a little ahead of the curve. It will get ugly if the class warfare continues in this country.

possibly too true. If the human race does not start living within it's means {carrying capacity}they may look like prophets in 20-30 yrs. Or it may be too late to stop this train already.
Of course, they may just be pyros or scam artist, as suggested.
Anyone read the dated but great "The sheep look up", by John Brunner?
"STOP KILLING ME!"

it was a great sitcom and I loved the way he ate cats and....oh wait....E-lf!

Never mind.

Eventually, someone is going to die because of something they do - a firefighter, an innocent bystander, a lumberjack.

The right-wing paints them as 'terrorists' and while I think that's an extreme portrait, they are criminals - arsonists and vandals. In the feeble minds of the reich wing, ELF (the ecoterrorists) are little different from the Sierra Club, so the good organizations suffer the same slurs as ELF.

like PETA, their emotions override their logic, giving all environmentalists a bad name...

Basically just firebugs. Arsonists have a compulsion to burn things. The ELF crap is just rationalization.

Nothing at all noble here, just criminal and cowardly.

Oh, wait...

Which I don't like because it is bad. :tinfoilhat:

As far as Earth Liberation Front -- if they ARE a group, they're stupid and criminal.

not anarchists. I'm much more against the threat of ELF radiation and other environmentally damaging tech in our electronic world.

They don't accept things not going their way and respond with violence.

I don't support vandalism or destruction of property, acts which have been attributed to ELF.

I am also very concerned with development, but I have some faith in the traditional means. Recently our town approved a developer's plan for 25 condos on a 6 acre parcel that was not zoned residential. A petition was circulated, and after 100 residents signed, the town planning board changed their mind and rejected the developers plans.
Employees of the developer then circulated their own petition...needless to say, they did not find many "pro-condo" residents. HA!

They generally waste natural resources, increase the cost of housing, and their acts endanger peoples' life and health.

Their recent fire here in San Diego did $50 million in damage to a buidling sited on a place that once upon a time had vernal pools, but I can tell you personally it was graded about 25 years ago. All they accomplished was to waste a lot of wood and other construction materials.

They suck ass.