Hillary to save the Democratic Nomination

Howard Fineman was just on MSNBC (Olberman) and said he'd spoken to a "very close adviser -- not her husband," and this was basically confirmed by other close advisers. I've written about this before, now I'm writing about it again, with even more confirmation.

(Yeah, Finaman can be a whore. Doesn't mean he's wrong.)

The plan: if there's no "clear frontrunner" coming out of the primaries by May or June (my note: and the Clintons can help make SURE there's no clear frontrunner), no majority of delegates, Hillary will just step in, graciously, "to save the party" and accept the nomination herself.

Fineman specifically said that her appearance at the JJ dinner in Iowa was definitely part of that. He also said, when asked how she could possibly run starting that late, that she continues to raise money "to help the Democratic Party," and keep her supporter propped up.

Fineman and others have previously described this whole thing as the "Stop Dean" effort. This is the strongest confirmation I've seen, tho the Lizza article was pretty darned good confirmation too. They (the Clintons and their hangers-on including McAuliffe, probably a good many Dems in Congress, and esp. the DLC) know that a "people-powered" campaign, candidate and nominee leaves those in power OUT of power. Couldn't possibly have that.

I have been "over" the Clintons for a looooong time now. This is the fnal nail in the coffin.

Eloriel

eom

from Drudge's mouth...

but hasn't Morris pushed this scenario before? And we know how accurate he is.

more logical than it was then. If there is no front runner, how could Hillary's entrance be to 'stop Dean' when Dean wouldn't even be leading?

The world doesn't revolve around the incredible Howard Dean. He may be roundish, and he certainly has a red, angry face, but that doesn't make him the sun. Snap out of it.

It's all about the Power vs. the Establishment


The Clinton's thought their candidate Clark would have taken off by now, at least enough to stop Dean. They were wrong.

The media (print and broadcast) reported that Hillary stole the show at the JJ dinner. They were wrong.

The Clinton's think that Dean's campaign will falter. They think he won't get a majority of the delegates. They are wrong.

The Establishment think Dean can't and won't be President. They, too, are wrong.


Dead Wrong.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

As many great skills that Hillary has, rousing oratory aint one of them.

They have this cross-eyed insanity when it comes to anything related to the Clintons. This is the top tier's way of getting money and attention from them.

That would be very bad for the party.

The problem with this scenerio is that it assumes an outcome, then backs up to find a way to justify it. It appears as if it's asking, what would happen if there's no clear fruntrunner going into the convention. But it's really asking, how could Hillary still get in the race. For if one really thought about, "what if there is no clear front runner," the presumptive answer is not "No, I will not run for president-voted for Bush's war-anti-Dean-DLCer Hillary." The glaringly obvious first choice is the man who got the most votes in the last election. He'd be the one a divided democratic party would turn to.

putting out to rile up their base.
1. Hillary is really in the race for the white house
2. All the democrats hate bush more than we hated clinton.
3. The democrats are putting gridlock in government ( the 39 hour talk a thon in the Senate)
4. the democrats hate religion and will keep it out of all schools and courts.

Can you see they are trying to keep their side from voting democratic this time round??

sources....GOP operatives?

I'm not a Dean supporter...or of anybody at this point....but if Dean takes primary elections, why won't there be any "clearcut" winner by May?
Even if they're not "winner take all", if Dean garners the most delegates, he'll be on top...and the other contenders, if close, won't just roll over for Hillary, they'll fight to win.

Furthermore, if they're worried about Dean, why would they want to put Hillary in, knowing what a divisive figure she is...plus, she has the audacity to be a female on top of it all.

I think the DLC can be dumb...but not this dumb.

to tell hiom a damn thing. You can bet Howard will tell the same fable on the Imus show tommorow.

This is just another stupid conspiracy theory.

by April. Iowa will knock out at least the bottom four.

Super Tuesday and mini-Super Tuesday. It'll be all over but for the crying by these dates.

i'm afraid you're right my dear... clintons are pulling out all stops to get rid of dean... talk to anyone in the know, and this is what you'll hear.


in fact, that 'october surprise' i told you (and only you) about was, in fact, put on hold (supposedly) because of this clinton mess... don't worry, it's still good to go (when? i'm not so sure now) but it's most likely gonna be used to off-set a possible clinton spoiling... which could very well happen (if you're getting my drift... and i know you are because you're so gosh darned smart)... so now, i'm glad the big surprise wasn't an october one, because we're gonna damn sure need it...lol

;-)


don't worry kiddo, we're gonna still win... it's gonna be a tough fight, but who ever said it was supposed to be easy...

Please stop with the conspiracy theories, unless you have EVIDENCE.

...they put out the conspiracy wack jobs and then back pedal when they don't come to pass...

geez, the more things change, the more they stay the same... ugh

..here before you were... will be here after you're gone ..didn't make a grand prediction and then disappear like you did...

... and please, you don't have to call me god...

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

... something super duper will be happening... I have inside info... bwhahahahahaha!

SO glad you popped in with your terrific news.

I know we're going to win -- it just breaks my heart that people would be so wedded to their own personal ambition that they would risk splitting the party like this. Ridiculous, or far worse.

Yeah, I'm with you re the surprise. I can be patient. ;-)

Eloriel

maybe LaRouche will win in Iowa. Maybe it will finally be proven that Kerry is to blame for all those crop circles. I heard Clark has an extra belly button. America is controlled by a secret society called - Masons. Did Sharpton really have a sex change operation in his youth? and then change back? What is the real story behind Dean's X-ray vision? Is Kucinich really secretly married to Christina Aquilera? What about the rumors that Lieberman sleeps in the nude? Does CMB really need dental work, and is it true she's only running for President for the included health care plan? Does Gephardt really dye his eyebrows the same color as his hair? I heard Edwards is secretly a Yankee - the accent is phony... true?

:shrug:

In order for her to do that, she would have to get the tied participants to just hand over their delegates to her.

Fineman is such an idiot.

You're way smarter than that. Why are you buying the media's line on this? Fineman's been saying this for months. Please take a deep breath and relax. Hillary is not running. PERIOD.

She is not running herself, BUT I am sure she is pulling the strings for other ppl.

She is not running herself, BUT I am sure she is pulling the strings for other ppl.

I agree, enough of the Clintons already. Hillary is the clearest and most straight forward way for democrats to lock down just about 43 percent of the vote. (44 tops)

I know of no better way the democrats could rescue a fine defeat from the jaws of victory.

This is not the time for her to run, and I'm not sure she ever will.

I don't know why she even entertains the idea of EVER running. She's SUCH a polarizing figure, and that will never change. Another thing I don't think will ever change: the right's hatred of the Clintons and after all this time, Clinton fatigue.

Eloriel

This is demented. SHE'S NOT GOING TO RUN.

Nine candidates is plenty. One of them will be the nominee.

I guess it sells newspapers.

would not blab her strategy to Fineman.

It wasn't just one, remember.

This is planned to get people excited about the possibility of her running (those who are stupid enough to get excited about that), get her lots of free media, drain off press and media coverage of the other candidates, etc.

If she had NO INTENTION UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES of running, she would put a screeching halt to all the speculation. She hasn't done that, and won't. She very carefully parses her words, and allows all the rumors and speculation to continue.

And remember too, this is how they staged Clark's grand entrance: months of speculation and coy flirtation --- complete with Draft Clark "movement" (probably funded by Jackson Stephens or one of his many minions).

Those of you who are dismissing this out of hand are absolutely, positively, being embarrassingly naive politically.

Eloriel

MSHBC

he and Tweety have been talking about this non story forever.

And yes, Fineman's being a whore DOES mean he's wrong. That's what makes him a whore, he tells stories to help Bush.

who actually buy this garbage. The media is pushing this whole scenario, which is basically a RW talking point. I can guarantee everyone here she is not running in 2004 - for about a million reasons.

Hillary would unite the party like no other candidate could, just about all Democrats adore her, but it isn't going to happen. This is just more paranoia from the right wing concerning Hillary.

If the delegates are split then it will be up to the congress super delegates, or so I have read. (which Gephardt has the most currently, by the way)

Hillary isn't running in 04, no matter how many Republicans want it. She will run in 08 or 12 and kick their sorry asses all the way back to Dogpatch.

after her appearance at the Jefferson-Jackson Dinner, which had been scheduled for months. Every time she does something like that, these rumors start again. But they're no more true now than they were months ago.

1.) The Republicans benefit from the fog of doubt that such speculation casts over the current contenders.

2.) The Corporate Media benefits from the "Hillary Speculation" as it helps sizzle their ratings and teases their audience.

3.) And of course, "The Clintons" benefit from the "Hillary Speculation".

I hope that Al Gore puts an end to this crap soon and endorses one of the top four contenders (Dean, Clark, Gephardt or Kerry). Tipper are you out there somewhere?

until well into the primaries. But his endorsement will certainly be a huge boost.

I will never get over how the Clintons were treated by the repugs and the media. And despite all, they maintained their dignity and equanimity and still did a good job.

That said, if there is no single front-runner, the nominee will be selected, as in days of yore, in smoke-filled back rooms from among the leading candidates. The party will choose a ticket that can defeat Bush ... likely some combination of Clark and Dean. Hillary's presence at the Iowa J-J Dinner was to rally the troops. Fineman is jacking off as are all the rightwingers on FOX. They love to incite their followers, to work them into a lather by tossing out the red meat known as Hillary Rodham Clinton. That's it, that's all. Now get over it.

yes, clinton was "personable", but he was much too conservative for me and i take issue with many of his policies (his WOD record, in particular). i only voted for him because he was a dem.

oh goody, i got my star back:D

Their wet dream is for Senator Clinton to run.. she's not going to. She said she isn't. Get over it.

Nothing fosters loyalty and fanaticism like the 'Us against the world' mentality that so many Deanites have fallen prey to. They like to say it themselves: 'the more you attack our Great Leader, the more we love him,' was the slightly paraphrased title of one thread here; similarly, the more it seems the Clintons and the DLC and the mafia and the FreeMasons and whatever other group you can think of threaten The Howard, the more they unite around him. Cultish movements need constant threats and crises to keep themselves at a fever pitch, and of course, the more feverish they are, the less likely they are to stop and actually begin to use reason.

why is that a bad thing? I hope every dem candidate is talking like they are going to win.. who wants a candidate that doesn't have backbone?

and what does this topic have to do with dean anyway? it's about Senator Clinton and the fact that the repukes want her to run about as much as they want AWOL to run. they can't accept the fact that she's not running this time around.. end of story.

whoever wins the dem nomination is going to win the election. AWOL is unelectable.. period.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/news/111703_ns_Clinton.html

Wouldn't put it past the Clintons. They just can't accept that their 15 minutes are up. Wouldn't surprise me in the least.

A term usually used for flash in the pans... are you suggesting the Clintons are flash in the pans?

30 minutes

... and immense pull in political circles... and one of the most popular ex-presidents...

but, what do I care, it is impossible reasoning with you fools who spend your days reviewing Right-wing web sites and Fox news and Rush and haven't a clue about Hillary's voting record. All you know is that the Right wing pundits hate her, so that makes her a liberal. Truth be told, she is hated by the Left and the Right alike. The Left doesn't like her because they know she really isn't the liberal the Right portrays her as - as a matter fact she is a mediocre, compromising centrist.

So rally around her, it only means ol' Wes failed to live up to expectations in curbing that Dean momentum.

I think Hillary would put herself above the party.

Hell, Bill did.

They have no personality apart from themselves. They cannot exist seperately. :eyes:

Howard Fineman just likes to stir the pot.

After Dean took the early lead, I was shocked at the way Bill defended Bush's war. There were rumors Clark was a Clinton plant to stop Dean. I hope those allegations aren't true.

They ARE true.

This is a story that has been unfolding for months. And I've been watching it. Clark was put in BY the Clintons to stop Dean. It's not going so well, or at least not as well as they'd hoped.

Time for Plan B (or C).

Eloriel

I love Hillary and I think she'd make a great President. I also think Chimpy would beat her by more than 50 electoral votes. No, not because she's a woman, but because she's been too damaged by eight years of right wing attacks. Think for five minutes and you'll be able to list a bunch--and keep in mind nearly fifty percent of America think chimp's doing a good job.

Disclaimer: I'm a wavering Dean supporter.

She'd lose big (and the DNC/DLC has been worred about another McGovern or Dukakis. Hah!!)

And she'd tear the party apart.

What they're not understanding is that the type of funny business they're contemplating is the very antithesis of what is wanted now, what is needed now. It would absolutely tear the party apart AND ensure our loss.

But perhaps they don't care.

Eloriel

SHE. IS. NOT. RUNNING.
::head explodes::

and I have never seen so much speculation disguised as fact in my life. It is pathetic what journalism has degenerated to. First, as Howard admits he brought it up first. Then, the person, who he won't name, comes up with this goofy senario. Then Howard takes said goofy senario to other people (no number given wanna guess it was 2). None of these people said this was being actively pursued. None of these people said Hillary had spoken to them about it, spoken to anyone about it, and Feinman didn't speak to her either. Then, he engages in mind reading. He says since she didn't say "You are a crack pot and I am not running you crack pot." She is clearly running. Give me a break.

they got hillary to host because they couldn't sell tickets. once hillary agreed to host, the event sold out fast.

Republicans can't get enough of jacking off to the same old picture. Bill's penis and Hillary's ambition get them all hot and bothered.

Do not knock on their door. Leave them alone to their fantasies.

;-)

For 2004, Hillary Clinton would be at a great disadvantage in fundraising and organization. She would be relying on the DNC, DLC, and the campaigns of others. For her to accept the nomination at a brokered convention, that would be creating the perception of egregious manipulation. It would invite resentment from the other leading candidates. The reprise of a Clinton vs. Bush election would seem so contrived that even the average voter would figure it out and be repelled by the contrivance.

On the other hand, Hillary has a great deal to gain by not running against an incumbent. In the scenario of no clear front-runner in 2004, she has the most to gain by appearing to be a strong Democrat throughout, making no (additional) enemies by reason of a nomination challenge, and appearing as strongest for 2008 (assuming that Bush in some way retains the White House).

The threat of a people-powered campaign is very bad for the DLC, although never fatal to the folks with the money, yet not quite as bad for her. It has already been demonstrated that the Clintons are capable of occasional populist rhetoric during the pursuit of conservative policies, and people actually buy it as liberalism. They, the Clintons, will be the last centrists hurt by the Dean campaign.

if she does the equivalent in terms of pres. fundraising, i'll believe she's thinking about it. but she's been her usual clinton-clear on it so far, "no"

that's not to say that i don't think she has ambition, or that she would make the wrong choice for the nation if she thought she had a shot. politicians are self-realizing animals first and foremost, after all, and dean is very grassroots, which should scare the establishment. but i think she is very smart, and that she knows in today's climate, the best she could do is 44%. america isn't ready for a woman president, not yet.