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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-03 12:09 AM
Original message
Slate: Kerry and Kucinich shine in Iowa
Saletan, of all people, writing nice about Kerry and Kucinich. That means no insult from me this time, but I imagine the Dean contingent will find time to come up with one or two.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2091335/

If you rely on the major newspapers, you probably learned just two things about Saturday night's Iowa Democratic Party presidential forum: Howard Dean was attacked, and Hillary Clinton overshadowed the candidates. That's a shame. We journalists allowed our boredom and biases to distract us from what voters need to know. We shouldn't have written about Dean and Clinton. We should have written about John Kerry and Dennis Kucinich.

Last week, I made fun of Kerry's campaign shakeup and his promises of a new theme. Saturday night, he unveiled that theme, and you know what? It's terrific. On a series of issues, Kerry contrasted President Bush's promises with what Bush has delivered, leading the crowd in a refrain against each "raw deal." With a nod to FDR, Kerry promised a "real deal, where we stand up and fight for working people … where we make our economy an economy that's based on people and products."

The word "real" was explicitly aimed at Bush, whom Kerry accused of playing "dress-up" in his famous celebration of victory in Iraq. "I know something about aircraft carriers for real," said Kerry. "If George Bush wants to make national security the issue of this campaign, then I have three words for him that I know he understands: Bring it on!" Kerry's supporters took up the chant, but Kerry made clear that his message also targeted Dean: "We are a Democratic Party that offers real solutions, real leaders—the party of Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, John Kennedy, and Bill Clinton. … We need to offer answers, not just anger. We need to offer solutions, not just slogans. So, Iowa, don't just send them a message next January. Send them a president."

This is what Kerry's message should be, because it's who he is. He's the guy to whom battlefield bloodshed is real and foreign policy isn't a foreign language. It's what distinguishes him—now that Wes Clark has bowed out—from every other contender in Iowa. Kerry isn't pretending to be the guy who makes your heart race. He's saying, go ahead and have your fling, but when it's time to marry, you know who to count on.

more...
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-03 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. Kerry angles for the Kucinich vote?
I think Dean, Kerry, and to a much lesser extent Clark all think they can persuade the handful of Kucinich, Sharpton, and Moseley-Braun supporters along with some independents to swing there way at the last minute. I wonder if any of the minor candidates will get delegates to the convention? Is Clinton or Gore really going to step in at the last minute and angle in?
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MrSoundAndVision Donating Member (879 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-03 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. There is no way
these other candidates are going to sway Kucinich votes in their direction, and I'm sure they and their staffs know that. So visit http://www.kucinich.us and look around and find out why. Join our movement, a movement which will continue beyond January.
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robsul82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-03 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
2. "STOP WHINING! YOU NEED DISCIPLINE!"
Stop bringing up Dean for no reason. Stop resembling your candidate so much. ;)

Later.

RJS
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-03 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. I was referring to Saletan's comment on the Confederate flag later in the
article. I thought Dean supporters might want to respond.

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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-03 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
3. i liked them based on what i saw
i have learned that you can't rely on most of the big media to report what actually happened. they mostly present the news in a way to get high ratings rather than present the truth. i didn't watch this live but the reports i heard after made it seem as if hillary had come there to campaign for herself. but it turns out that hillary was hosting the event. and that the event did not sell many tickets until they got hillary to host which got it to sell out fast. while hillary always stands out in a crowd, she certainly didn't do anything to try to take away from the other candidates. in fact she brought her popularity to benefit the others. and i personally thought she came across as wanting democrats to win in 2004.
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MrSoundAndVision Donating Member (879 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-03 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
4. and also
<snip>
The other guy who deserved attention for his speech Saturday night was Kucinich. I've ragged on him almost as much as I have on Kerry. But while Gephardt and Kerry criticized Bush's Iraq policy on the grounds that it was hurting American standing in the world, Kucinich pointed out the policy's human cost, as opposed to its political one. Hours before the candidates spoke, the wires reported that U.S. forces had suffered their most deadly incident of the war. Yet the only thing Gephardt managed to say about Bush's policy was, "We're losing our allies by the day." Kucinich addressed the day's horrors more directly. He opened his speech by recalling his visits as a newspaper copy boy to families who had lost their sons in Vietnam.

Kucinich also showed more courage on trade policy. Gephardt usually talks about NAFTA in his speeches. He points out that he stood up to President Clinton on that issue. Not this time. With Sen. Clinton introducing the candidates—reading introductions their staffs had written—Gephardt omitted NAFTA from both his speech and his introduction. Kucinich, on the other hand, forced Sen. Clinton to introduce him as "the only candidate … who pledges to cancel NAFTA and WTO as his first act in office." That was as much of an affront as Kucinich was prepared to deliver. In his speech, he proclaimed, "This is the moment when we should be calling for … an America where a president will say, as I will say, I will cancel—I will work to achieve an America which works with the world community." Anyone who has followed Kucinich knows which word was going to follow "cancel" until he caught himself: NAFTA
<snip>

In case you were wondering about the actual title of the article.
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Creideiki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-03 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. That would be a mistake
NAFTA should be workable. That it isn't shows more a flaw in the management, rather than the idea.
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KC21304 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-03 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
6. Thanks for the article.
If you really want to look, with Kerry, there is more there, there.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-03 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
8. will wonders never cease
An article about the real issues. Finally.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-03 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
10. Savvy Iowans ought to realize repealing ALL the tax cuts is a nonstarter
and any Democratic nominee who runs on repealing all of the tax cuts, is toast in the general election. This is Karl Rove's fantasy and a total disaster for any nominee who tries to peddle it. Kerry is absolutely right about this.

Saletan writes:

"The other guy standing in Kerry's way is Dick Gephardt. Today's Los Angeles Times treats Iowa as a two-man contest, asking, "Will Dean's Passion Trump Gephardt's Wallet Issues?" It's an odd concession, given that both Dean and Gephardt would repeal the parts of the Bush tax cuts that benefit the middle class. Even in a Democratic caucus, a third candidate should be able to make headway by hammering the front-runners on this issue. That's what Kerry did Saturday. "I will not balance the budget on the backs of the most vulnerable people in America, and I will not raise taxes on the middle class," he pledged. Embarrassingly—for us, not for Kerry—not a single newspaper in the Nexis or Factiva database ran that quote."

http://slate.msn.com/id/2091335/
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-03 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Gee....some real issues are being barely covered.
I guess we have to take what we can get on that, but, I doubt the news networks will air anything substantive to give the voters the "Real Deal" they need to hear about before they go with the corporate media pick.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-03 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
11. John Kerry is the real deal.
Thank you Mr. Saletan.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-03 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Kerry's record holds up best to close scrutiny.
Edited on Tue Nov-18-03 01:49 PM by blm
I wouldn't bet on Saletan maintaining any good feelings for Kerry, though, since he tends to be more appreciative of centrism than Kerry.
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Ficus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-03 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
14. I was at the JJ
and for those who were there, I think many were surprised at the amount of support JK had there. But by far, Dennis had the most impassioned speech, something out of a church revival, except, more progressive. He got a lot of people to their feet that weren't DK supporters.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-03 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. like hillary
she seemed to like him very much.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-03 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Clintons have always liked Kucinich.
He's not the far left extremist that some make him out to be. He's a much more mainstream Dem according to his record and is very loyal to the party.
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realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-03 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
15. Wondering if Slate and Saletan are Slanted
a bit too much these days....
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Julien Sorel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-03 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
17. Amazing.
For-Sale-tan finally put out a balanced piece. It probably helped him immensely that he wasn't forced to discuss Clkark extensively, or else I'm sure he would have quickly reverted to his usual snarling, sneering self.
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