The biggest distaste I have for the Dean campaign

First off im not writing this to cause trouble. I have never seen this issue addressed since ive been here. Its the juvenile behavior of those that favor Dean. I'm not sure where this comes from. Is it the fact that there is a alot of college age kids supporting him or is it a reflection of Dean the candidate himself. I know on a few occasions he has shown to be a bit crass.

If Dean were to get the nomination i would support him.

And then you proceed to call his supporters names.

Very good.

:shrug:

"Its the juvenile behavior of those that favor Dean."

"Its the juvenile behavior of those that favor Dean. "

See your initial post for verification. This thread is nothing but flamebait. You got your wish, hope you're happy.

isn't it juvenile to call people names?

I am not certain I read him call Dean supporters any "names". He said some Deanies can be guilty of "juvenile behavior". I have to wholehearetdly agree. More than any other candidate, Dean's supporters can be the most verbally abrasive and combative. Of course, that's purely subjective.

Or, as a guy who had to have been busted for heavy possesion of drugs (or something) and now has to go across the country prostuting himself as a supposed Republican would say, "of course that's just my opinion...I could be wrong."

Rules to start discussion threads in the General Discussion forum.

...

"4. If you wish to start a vanity thread (ie: a discussion thread in which the sole purpose is to share your personal opinion) you must state your opinion in a non-inflammatory manner which respects differences in opinion and facilitates actual discussion...."

Calling a group 'juvenile' *is* inflammatory.

He doesn't say some...he says "Dean supporters" full stop!

First, this is typical of people on here who like to paint with broad brushes and accuse the vast majority of one candidate's supporters with the actions of a few outliers....every candidate has their over the top people, that's what the ignore button's for!

Second, has this individual ever attended a MeetUp, or is this just based on what goes on here at DU?! Cause if it is....his ability to produce scientific samples sucks!!

Third, is he serious about basing his decision on what a small sampling of supporters' behavior is like?! Cause he is absolutely sure that all the people who stir up trouble here are in fact supporters of the people who they say they are!!! If I know one thing about cyber space...it is that you cant believe about 99% of what's out there!!!

Perhaps the imaturity is not soo much with the Dean supporter's personalities as with his experiences on surfing the web....

Just a thought...

are young, immature, and full of rage is not calling them names.

"I have never seen this issue addressed since ive been here."

Your 3rd day...:eyes:

ive been here for a few days.

nt

other candidates regularly. On many of the subject headings dealing with other candidates and showing that candidate in a good light . They will always chime in with the most negative thing they can find as if to slow the good mood of that candidates supports.

You're not terribly observant, if you think Dean supporters are the only one who do it, or even do most of it.

He's been through many political battles and has come out through unscathed----he knows his supporters have to be earned with every turn, and not to casually treat them like some other candidates have done.

Happens always. Re think that statement. Sometimes, often, maybe but not always. It is mostly an attempt to strike back at people who attack Dean.

It is, in fact, much more common to see the antiDeans jumping on to any thread that praises Howard Dean for any reason. I have taken pains not to flame every other candidate just because I support Dean. In fact, towards Wes Clark I show nothing but praise of him and still would support him if he became the nominee. I have occassionally nailed Kerry, Gephardt and Lieberman where they deserved it.

What we are seeing here is some projection on your part, and possibly on the part of many antiDeans.

a gallup poll has him in 2nd place to Wes Clark among the under 30 crowd 17-16 but Zogby has him at 4% being quadrupled by Clark and Sharpton.

That said, and although there's a certain cultish element to his candidacy that is offputting, i dont think people should base their opinions on the supporters (although they do, and that is another negative on him if he were to win the primary).

:eyes:

Possibly the best I've ever seen as far as him looking...well, like just a guy having some fun.

:hi:

this is what i'm talking about!

no sense of getting sarcasm there, eh?

I must confess that I had the same initial impression. </end sarcasm>

"Clark" avatar as soon ago as yesterday? I don't care.. I just wanted to know if I'm losing it or you had a change of heart and mind. :hi:

support and are involved with the Dean campaign. For whatever reason, Dean appeals to a lot in that age group. So that explains the rudeness and immature postings that are seen on occasion in this segment you speak of.

Riiiiight....

Supporting a candidate is like supporting a football team. Go Steelers! Go Dean! you know what I mean?

Flaming is stupid but joking and criticism are normal. Most people think their guy is perfect, so its good to hear someone else's view.

As a mature (45 yro) Dean supporter, I think I know what you are getting at. I've been to Dean events, and I can confirm that many, many Dean supporters are young people, some of whom are participating in their first election. The Dean campaign, which initially had NO money, encouraged supporters to produce their own flyers, organize their own events, and in general, work as a do-it-yourself campaign headquarters. There are some dangers to this approach--namely, people who are too politically inexperienced to know better pissing other progressives off.

We had a big discussion in the Illinois for Dean forum about someone who showed up to a Dean event trying to sell his own Barak Obama t-shirts. Obama is an Illinois state rep who is running for the U.S. senate seat--I happen to like him a lot. The person in question was kicked out of the Dean event by national organization staff and he was angry about this.
Some of us older heads pointed out that Dean had not made any endorsements for Illinois senatorial candidates, and that we didn't want to alienate supporters of other candidates by appearing to endorse Obama.

You see, this is the kind of immature stuff that crops up constantly in a grassroots-oriented campaign. It really pains me to see people being obnoxious about Dean, but please understand that for every over-the-top Dean supporter there are ten people like me that are keeping our eyes on the prize. Maybe we haven't been vocal enough, but please understand that we are trying to win a primary here, and most importantly, win the 2004 election. You can praise Clark, Kerry, Kucinich, Sharpton, etc. to the stars and I'll listen, but if you start taking swipes at my chosen candidate, I stop listening. Hey, this also goes for those of you who may love Howard a little too much--get a grip!

you updated me on alot of things I didn't know. :toast:

And may the best man or woman win!

but I can imagine! This is a very emotional time in our Country!

I agree many of them are very enthusiastic and idealistic - which is nice to see BUT I hope they don't get disillusioned because they build him up too much and he ends up not living up to their expectations. All candidates promise a lot of things and then don't live up to them. No candidate or person is perfect.... I worry that they will become disillusioned with the Dem Party or with voting if he ends up disappointing them.

Please Dean people - be careful of that... I think many of his followers expect too much out of him. There's nothing worse than the wrath of people who become disappointed with a "hero."

I'd say that about any of the candidates by the way. I'm not saying that about Dean because I think there's anything wrong with him in particular - it's just something I've seen happen on many campaigns.... I'm very concerned about this. The Dem party doesn't need any more people fleeing to the Green Party because they become "ticked off" at the Dem Party.

The kids have definitely not imagined a lot of the lofty ideas they have about Dean. He fed into it too.

I have been impressed very much by one thing. Though our group is diverse, they are respectful toward each other and toward the campaign.

There is a small group at the private college near us, they are a lovely bunch of young people.

In our group we are racially mixed. People are from many demographic groups. This is probably the only campaign or group in this very conservative area in which gays feel comfortable. There are several. There are quite a few independents, a couple of lawyers, a lot of retired folks, two nurses, a psychologist, and I could go on. A couple are very impetuous, but they calm down naturally when they see the others being more mature.

I highly suspect Dean is being followed around by those not necessarily his supporters and who have less than honorable intentions. Note the flag wavers for example.

Also on here at this forum there has been very little of Dean supporters going after others just to do it. Most of the time we are defending, almost to the point of being ridiculous.

'...trashing other candidates regularly".

To be fair, you have no doubt seen a few, just as you have no doubt seen a few supporters of other candidates trashing Dr. Dean.

You have never seen THIS Dean supporter, nor the vast majority of other DU Dean supporters "trashing other candidates" at all.

So please, put down your broad brush and join us in substantive discussion - there is plenty to be found here. And welcome to DU. :hi:

And so right! :hi:

a :toast: and a :hug: and it takes one to know one zidzi! :hi:

consistantly interject rude, spiteful and just plain mean-spirited comments claiming to support anyone. I wonder if they really do support that candidate or are just trying to stir others up against them, you know?

FTR, I'm trying very hard not to let that handful get to me anymore, and I usually try not to act that way myself, although none of us are perfect.

handle yourself very well! :hi:

of those who engage in that behavior and I either breeze on by their posts (knowing full well what to expect) or pass on their threads. That type of dialogue is not constructive, it only serves to stir up defensive emotions, and that's not why I am here.

Criticism of policy and position is valid -- the politics of personal destruction are not. So I'm with you diamondsoul - catch ya on the positive, enlightening side. :hi:

This is what i seen here. for what its worth , from what i have read here already it is very substantive. Perhaps you should reflect on your own words?

don't come over here because of the vitriol that's aimed at Dean. Also a lot of DUers that support Dean hang out in the DU Lounge almost all the time---they don't participate in heated discussions like these.

You're looking selectively at the General Discussion forum.

Just as i stated.

...in an inflammatory way, in violation of Rule #4.

And thanks for the "advice". So tell me, what do you think of the FTAA and today's actions?

cheers

You are very confusing. :shrug:

So much has happened in the world today. Are you interested in discussing anything substantive about Dr. Dean (or any other subject), or is this thread - as others noted above, flame-bait?

they're so "feisty." I like Dean myself - but I'm such an "old political warhorse" that it doesn't really bother me too terribly much if he (or Clark - my #1) get attacked. You just try to prove the people wrong with facts. Sometimes the criticisms are right...

It's just politics... You can't take it personally when your candidate is attacked.

When people are attacked they band together and tend to become even more enthused. It's like when parents "forbid" their kids to not date someone - you can be sure that they'll keep on not only dating the person - they'll end up marrying them. They might have broken up with them a long time ago - but you cause them to become even more enamored. Part of it is that they don't want to be proven "wrong" and the other part is that they feel like "it's us against the world."

anything goes. They asked for it, they'll get it.

Edited to add: There are a few people here whose only PURPOSE here is to trash Dean. Literally, their only purpose. And the Clark supporters have been nastily aggressive as well. Many of them frankly creep me out.

I got sick of it. They'll get as they gave.

Eloriel

with mischaracterizations, outright lying, and taking words out of context.

Dean supporters are constantly called names, belittled, demeaned and degraded by some of the members here. It gets old after awhile and leads you to have more of a propensity to behave like an asshole. For myself, I am constantly seeing outright lies posted about Dean's record in Vermont. I know they are lies because I live in Vermont and am aware of what takes place here. Forum rules don't allow me to call a lie a lie so the only way to get any kind of justice is to lampoon the candidate whose supporters are telling the lies. If anything, some Dean supporters are a bit reactionary, but I see the same kind of behavior from the supporters of other candidates, too.

support because you, this ordinary citizen, can actually participate, even vote for some of his decisions (e.g. matching funds) then call me whatever pejorative. As Dean said "I have been called worse."

BTW, where is my belly-ring? I SO want it. /sarcasm

yes please, tell us about juvenile.

Should do 250-300 posts easy.

"Its the juvenile behavior of those that favor Dean. I'm not sure where this comes from. Is it the fact that there is a alot of college age kids supporting him or is it a reflection of Dean the candidate himself. I know on a few occasions he has shown to be a bit crass.

It should be deleted soon.

Anybody HOOOOOOOME??

Eloriel

n/t

You honestly feel i meant to discredit somebody by my post? I think its more of a issue of not wanting to talk about what meany speak briefly here on. this subject has been talked about in spits and spats alot from what i seen. i just started the topic to get more info. I meant no harm as ive said a few times already. Lighten up!

Also these sentences do.
"Its the juvenile behavior of those that favor Dean."

"I know on a few occasions he has shown to be a bit crass."

I see these as characterizing a group of people. I am not juvenile, and Dean is not crass.

The words "lighten up" are used here when someone knows they making others mad.

Obviously the moderators think it is not flamebait, so I shall back off.

Last night. The discussion about Clarks response to Deans (re-regulation) made me sooooo ANGRY. Now to be fair I've run into a couple of nice Deanies. To you I say THANKS. But to the others...

Today I decided to change my Avatar and behave like a rude Dean supporter. I was soooo angry I felt that was the only way I could show you how you behave. Now If I'm the third person today to bring this up. So there has to be something to this. Honestly do you think Dean wants you to represent him this way? How do you guys feel when your fellow supporters are being rude and crass? How do you think that reflects on your candidate? Are you so hung up on Dean that you can't stand to hear anything positive out of any other campaign? If you honestly think Dean is going to win the nomination then you need to start cleaning up your act and representing a future President and not some Fly-by-Night politician.

Deanies...Honestly I hope you go back through and read some of the things you post. Some of you are so RUDE and CRASS it makes me sick. I felt as though I was dealing with FREEEPERS. If the behavior exhibited last night is what you are aiming for to represent your candidate then fine, just know that eventually, you'll drive more supporters away than you attract. Keep in mind, after the nomination process alot of us may be working together. Don't make people like me DREAD working with you. That will truly divide our party and give Bush the edge he needs to win.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=229294

:shrug:

When I see Clarkies being rude I say something because I don't want my candidate represented in that manner.

Have you ever asked yourself why is it that you only see a few people supporting clark here on DU all familiar user names?

Aren't there any Dean supporters to help keep things civil from your side?

"cultish" "young kids" "moonies" "kool-aid drinkers" by Clark supporters, so we have every right to be upset, and defend our candidate when people mischaracterize Dean's positions or deliberately twist them around, or take words out of context to paint Dean in the worst light, and it makes you guys no better than freepers.

But I wanna see where Clark supporters called you guys kool-aid drinkers.

because the "cult" meme was used starting weeks and weeks before the CNN useage.

Eloriel

earlier...

right-wing sources! How is that any better?

Do you HONESTLY believe you've been so innocent? Unbelievable.

Eloriel

... as far as they go. His record, however, is that of a moderate Republican. That's not me talking, that's what Vemont Liberals who know him report.

As far as his supporters go: Many I'm proud to call Friend. Here by their electrons on DU and in regular flesh-and-blood life. There are many truly good people who also happen to be Dean supporters.

A vocal minority of some of these Dean supporters are less noble. These I call Deanieweenies are very easy to spot. Use the words they as a gauge. For examples of what I'm writing about, just read above how they denigrate the original poster solely for stating an OPINION of Dean supporters.

One would think they insulted the Lord Almighty. That's funny, considering what many DUers write about the Supreme Being or lack thereof.

by DEANIES complaining that other campaigns were calling them names. And Moonies came from the Washington Post!

I only saw three threads one was from today, the other 2 were from the same person saying that people were calling Dean supporters names.

There were no CLARK supporters on DU calling DEAN supporters Kool-Aid drinkers.

Cultitst came from CNN and from a few news articles.

OK what's your next point? Give it up. You're saying things that aren't true. do your own search

not just a search of posts that haven't been archived.

I can name specific DUers from memory whom I've seen say these things. Some of their posts may still be unarchived in the Politics and Campaigns forum as it moves much slower than GD.

Once we group others as if a "they" were a singular entity, the go-team football crap becomes inevitable.

I'd also keep in mind that many people have a natural prejudice to overlook the ideological and character flaws of their own candidate and fellow supporters. Exaggeration of the mistakes and defects of other campaigns, supporters, candidates, often follows.

Watch where you step.

board.

I have much bigger issues with the distasteful behavior of Bush supporters :D

Welcome to DU but please try to remember Du'ers can only speak for themselves.

It's like Jesus...he's probably a really cool guy but some of his followers are a real pain in the ass.

There are also verythoughtful Dean supporters on DU.

:hi:

I am a Dean supporter. When Kerry's blog was put up, I went over and participated a little bit.... NOT flaming, just hi, welcome to blogland, blah blah blah. I occasionally popped in to see how it was going there. One day, someone was going on and on about Dean supporters, and how they posted all these terrible hateful things at Democratic Underground. Well, I was a relatively new Deaniac, and this concerned me, because i hadn't seen anything of the sort elsewhere on the net. I came over here and spent a coupe hours reading posts, and I have to say if anything, I saw twice as much Dean/Deaniac bashing than I did bashing BY Deaniacs. That's fine. That's to be expected when you're up front. I don't mind taking the heat. I just hate to see people try to spin it the other way.

I am also new to the political scene, and for each of us that might misstep, I think there are also as many who hang back and watch and learn. I've been nervous about speaking to total strangers at flyering events and canvassing, and I'd say 1/3 of the folks in my van pool in NH were kind of timid too.

Gotta take the good with the bad... maybe some of us don't have the right methods yet, but we're new and we're motivated, and we WILL vote for Anyone But Bush, and we will also be voting in local races as well. I believe that this is the awakening of the sleeping Giant, whether or not Dean gets the nom.

Excellent post.

campaigns that bash Dean.

Hi, Slinkerwink. What I mean is that I had read about this "reputation" Dean supporters were getting, but when I got here, I saw more of other candidates' supporters bashing Dean, than us bashing them.

Thanks for the welcome, forkboy:-) I lurked a couple months, and then just HAD to join;-)

:hi:

Love your sig!:hi:

Want me to make you a sig out of a picture?

:boring:

This is inflammatory.

Thanks,
Taylor
GD Moderator