Who thinks this BC toon is a religious slur? (Wish I'd have poll rights)

Well, since I'd don't, let's do it the old-fashioned way: begin your subject line with "YES" (it is an anti-Islam slur) or "NO" (JCCyC is seeing too much).

http://www.comics.com/creators/bc/archive/bc-20031110.html

???

I didn't find it relative to Islam at all.

it is a symbol of Islam. BTW the post did a story on it.

The moon is commonly portrayed on outhouses. That's how they're marked. Are all outhouses anti-Islamic?

Jesus, are we maybe trying too hard here?

Orwhy anyone would think it's funny? After all "outhouse = smelly" isn't the height of comedy.

Doesn't make it a religious slur.

I've stopped reading it since I turned 6.

"Hey look at that! The ant! It's talking! ABOUT GOD!"

but not in this case.

but a second moon in the sky both cresent...

TWO moons! Next thing you know he's gonna draw a purple clover and insult all of the cartoon cereal mascots.

but a second moon in the sky both cresent...

That's the symbol that appears on the flags of many predominantly Muslim countries throughout the world.

However, given Johnny Hart's bizarre interpretation of Christianity and his known far right politics, it would not suprise me in the least to see him trying to slam Islam by making such a crass joke (and get the symbol wrong at the same time).

B.C. is about as entertaining as The Lockhorns was (if anybody remembers that strip).

that comic makes no sense to me.

The author, Johnny hart, has a previous history of Bible nuttiness -- see below. Smell something yet?



Edit: square brackets, dammit!
Edit the edit: allright, I give up, I'll leave the image online.

see eg http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/bulletin_board/11/messages/642.html

If he did mean it to be anti-Islamic, he's being far too subtle for most comic readers, I think - I'd never have taken it that way.

I dont really know what to make of it.

Yeah, it's not too funny, but you're reading a little too much into it. Ol' Johnny Hart has been at it for so long, his weekday comics don't seem to be doin much of anything anymore in the humor department.

That guy is a right-wing fundy pig to the wick.
Good find.

the crescent is a rather glaring giveaway

He writes some pretty pro-Bush crap, but this is
over the top.

"funnies"....

That strip hasn't been funny in decades.

if it is a dig at Islam. :shrug: I couldn't see it.

if they really wantd to.

However, I don't think so, simply because I don't think to many of Hart's readers are smart enough to make the connection.

what do you think the punch line is?

(What kind of wine is that you have there, I could use some.)

IMO. It's just an unfunny series of panels to me.

So... what? Outhouses stink? No shit, Sherlock. My frame of reference is a bit different b/c my grandmother's house still had an outhouse when I was small. So it's an unfunny attempt and both about Islam and about rural people as far as I'm concerned.

See the thing about shit is everybody's stinks. Johnny Hart is no different.

It's not the least bit funny, so I think that Hart intended it as a slur.

Jewish candles? I don't get it.

Hart is a pretty christian guy.

plus, the moon imagery is pretty blatant.

the thing that makes me wonder is, if it isn't, what is the punchline? i mean, the strip doesn't make any sense at all, unless you see it as a subtle dig against islam, unless Hart is trying to say 'hey, toilets smell, isn't that funny?'

so either its a dig against islam, or its a really stupid joke.

it is hidden like a code. but the fact that it is not inherently funny makes me believe that it is some sort of racist statement.

Talk about being overly and hyper sensitive. Johnny Hart has used that depiction of an outhouse since the beginning of his strip, and the cresent moon on the door is a symbol that has been on outhouses for as long as can be remembered.

I think those finding offense in the depiction of the outhouse have far too much time on their hands are searching for anything they can find to provide them the slightest opportunity to cry "I'm offended!"

.

I can't explain the joke. Though I have never liked BC nor read it regularly to keep up with his humor. Maybe one need to be a regular reader of BC to "get it".

Clearly folks have been living in the city with indoor plumbing so long that they don't realize that a half moon on an outhouse door is as old as the hills. Don't ask me why they had them, not sure.

But the Islamic symbol is not a solitary half moon. It is a half moon with a star. Not sure on the origin of that symbol either but if I had to guess it would seem to make sense that every year at Ramadan there is some type of planetary alignment that brings one of them into proximity to the moon, sight-wise.

you can't get around the fact that it's not only not funny, it doesn't make a damn bit of sense unless he was trying to say Muslims are human shit.

something in it, it could just as well be a commentary that slams against Islam stink. However, BC cartoons have traditionally always been pretty simplistic and not controversial.

If it's insulting Islam, it's really tough to extract. Usually Hart will be quite blatant on his RW soapbox - subtlety is not his specialty.

But if it's just an attempt at humor, it doesn't get much lamer than that. Yeah, outhouses stink, maybe because of what people do in them? Gee that's hilarious to draw a strip that shows someone in an outhouse commenting on the smell. </sarcasm> :shrug:

As much as I dislike BC comics and Johnny Hart, I don't think there is any bias in this particular one. That menorah into cross one is pretty offensive.

I just can't believe anyone finds his comics even mildly amusing.

the guy walking up to the outhouse all you can see is his eyes............ could the toon be racial(sp).

then the moons, is it anti-islam.

OR is it just to be funny....

It's certainly not a comment on Islam in any way. The "SLAM" is the outhouse door closing. The moon (in the sky and on the outhouse door) is something J. Hart has used for years and years and years, though not nearly as frequently as the tablet messages floating across the ocean or the "information" booth.

But that said, B.C. has gone all to hell in the last 10-15 years. I used to really like it, and it used to be consistently funny. I still WANT to like B.C., but it's just become... lame.

And his propensity for frequently loading it with Christian messages just totally repulses me.

Besides, what kind of sense does it make to have prehistoric cave men (and dinosaurs) in a comic titled "B.C." advocating Christian messages?!? WTF is that about?

Check out some of the things this Google search turns up.

And then check out this article. It's worth it.

(I read it on the bus on the way to work.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2184-2003Nov20.html

"This is Marshall Blonsky, professor of semiotics at the New School in New York. Blonsky is an expert in the interpretation of signs and symbols. The first thing he said, on seeing the cartoon, is that he didn't get the joke. The second thing he said was that the outhouse is clearly serving some metaphoric purpose: 'It represents something that stinks in the world.' And the third thing he said was that there was something very puzzling about that SLAM.

'It's inappropriate,' he said. 'You gently close an outhouse door.' One does not ordinarily enter an outhouse in anger or with a melodramatic flourish, he said. One utilizes this particular convenience in as unobtrusive a way as possible.

Blonsky said the cartoon seemed in some way manipulative -- constructed in 'a polysemic fashion, to supply multiple meanings that would deliberately evade interpretation.' When told of the religious interpretation, he said that in this light, the cartoon suddenly made logical sense. The coincidences were simply too great to ignore, he said.

The Washington Post asked six well-known cartoonists -- all admirers of Johnny Hart -- to look at the strip. Most said they had no idea what the joke was supposed to be. When the religious interpretation was suggested, five of the six thought it was probably right, even given Hart's denial. "

if a professor of semiotics and JH's peers didn't understand it either.

It's just a bad strip, all the way around. And to think he gets a paycheck for that. :eyes:

From the article...

The CAIR e-mail mentioned the moons, and also noted that Hart had drawn a prominent sound effect -- "SLAM" -- between two frames to accompany the closing of the outhouse door. The SLAM was stacked vertically, in the shape of an I, and could be seen to signify "Islam." The cartoon appeared on the 15th day of Ramadan, the Muslim holy month.

I am going to be hard pressed to find a bigger stretch in the news recently or in the distant past.

Sentencing will occur next week.

That's just stupid. Sorry, I'm not willing say that Colgate toothpaste is in league with the devil because there used to be a moon in the company logo. And I'm certainly not going to invent a slur where one doesn't exist here. Absolutely ludicrous. I didn't think our side was this nutty.

What the hell else does it mean? That an outhouse smells like shit?

The "SLAM" and the crescent moon, THE symbol of Islam. And we already know about this bastard's worldview.

What's to debate? There's no nuance here. This is fare for Der Sturmer, equating an entire people and culture with excrement.

Hart angered the Jewish community with this cartoon a couple of years ago.



And just October 13 B.C. featured this very decidedly Christian daily-strip.

*

So is religious bigotry behond Johnny Hart?

No.

*sorry, I thought I had a good image link.

It's meaning of xtianity superceding judaism is more than clear. And the disappearing menorah is just dispicable.

Sorry, in my world, we wait together. O8)

Ten out of 10 cartoonists, when asked to draw an outhouse, will draw one with a moon on a door. It's a freaking cartoon archetype. Otherwise no one would know what the hell it is.

I think we're really reaching for it here.

Johnny Hart is an old, old man and a rightwing nut. He's completely run out of ideas and most of the time, he's just not funny. But I doubt that he would make an obscure reference to an Islamic symbol that most people, myself included, wouldn't get.

The owners of this are clearly anti-islamic and put this in their yard to offend their muslim neighbors. No doubt.


Even the people at the Bird Housing Company hate Islam!


Even Shrek is an anti-islam bigot!


Damn those Islam haters at JourneyWomen.com


Islam just can't catch a break. Even the nudists at Sunward Naturist Park hate them!

Islam can't even escape the hate and bigotry of Calender.com!

hope in todays world.

That is if there is any paper in there.

It's not a religious slur and it's not even remotely funny. See, prehistoric people are dumb, therefore they don't realize that an outhouse stinks. So after the door slams and this pre-historic fella does his business he thinks it might smell in there so he asks "is it me, or does it stink in here?". The key part of this is "is it me" and the prehistoric dude is asking it much the same way a person would ask "is it me or is it hot in here?" or in other words he is asking if he is the only one who thinks it stinks in there. The joke is that author intends "is it me," to question whether the prehistoric guy actually stunk the place up. It's really a dumb and highly cryptic panel. I hope you all can get this because I had a hard time explaining it.

Jay

BC is an openly Christian strip that makes no bones about its point of view.

If Calvin and Hobbes ran the same strip I don't think the question would have been raised. It would clearly have been aimed at Calvin's total immersion in self, to the point that he thinks his s**t don't stink.

With that in mind I think the vote has to be considered still out on whether this was intended as a swipe at Islam or not. Why not query Hart? If that was his intent, it won't make a difference. If it wasn't, it might make him a little more sensitive to the issue.

According to legends (don't know if they are actually true or not), half moons and full moons were used on outhouses to depict which sex was supposed to use them. Even if the legends about the origins are not true, people have and still use these symbols on outhouses regularly. To depict that as racist is to depict outhouses themselves as racist.

As far as the moon in the sky, its been a long time since I've read BC but if I remember correctly, the author always used a moon in the sky to depict night time in the strip.

As previoisly noted, the crescent moon on the outhouse has been a cartoon convention for ages.

I can understand your suspicions, since otherwise it's pretty pointless (unless it's part of a larger arc), but frankly, when Hart starts preaching through his strip, he's just not that subtle.

Hart's made antisemitic remarks before. Here he does it again.

I looked at it and can't really find any other way to anaylize it...
'Why at night'?
'Why an outhouse at the top of the hill or perhaps sand dune?'
'Why an old-fashioned 'moon' to denote an outhouse?' (generational humor?)
'Why the obvious statement, 'Outhouses stink!'?

Other than Islam or it might be Iraq?

Fair and Balanced? Or Simply a 'hate' slur with plausible denial?

A bit like the LA cartoon where Bush is being shot in an re-enactment of of the infamous Vietnam street assassination...

When the cartoonist got heat from the minions of the Cabal--he said it was 'symbolic' of the assassination of Bush by his 'critics'!!...I mean what is he going to say, 'Yeah...it's a wet dream of mine to see Bush receive street justice?'

Could be Hart is making an anti-Iraq comment

Outhouses are almost always drawn with a crescent moon.

Johnny Hart has become a Religious Right nut over the past decade or so, and his strip has become an embarrassment. However, one of his characteristics is that, when he wants to share a religious or political message, he's as subtle as a brick. He wouldn't do a strip like that, but simply make a flat-out anti-Islam message. At least, he would have put a sign on the door reading "Mohammed's Outhouse" or something like that.

Remember the menorrah floating in the sky morphing into the crucifix?

The moon on the outhouse would mean nothing alone. Coupled with the other crescent in the sky and the SLAM makes it suspicous. WIth Hart's history of antisemitic comments and symbolism makes this cartoon a religious slur beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

He's made plenty of bigotted and ignorant cartoons before. So why are you defending him?

but there is no "there, there" in regardes to this stupid toon.

At least he's an equal opportunity semite smearer.

I remember reading this when I was about 8, and it was the first time I learned of the common depicition of outhouses with a moon shaped window.

The joke is really what it is, something that perhaps an 8 year old boy would find funny. Now I remember why I stopped reading BC about that age.

A swipe at Islam? My God, you are seeing things.

is that all the outhouses I've ever been in--and I am Not talking porta-potties,here--there has never been a moon cut out of the door. The LAST thing you want in an outhouse in the winter is a huge draft like that. :)

..a bunch of cavemen could be Christians.

Perhaps Johnny Hart forgot what the term "BC" meant??

n/t

But as others have said, when Hart wants to make a religious point, he usually hits you in the face with it and then stands over your battered body with a bat.

The "SLAM" part is weird, but I didn't notice it until it was pointed out to me. Maybe, he's learned subtlety. I doubt it.

I must be naive to think that the author had intended insulet or harm.

This particular carton does absolutely nothing to tickle my fancy.

plenty of his toons prove it. Loser.

Julie

....and I'll take your word for it, that the guy is a fundy getting his digs. If it is revealed to me that 'tis true, I'll burn the paper or line the cat box and never bother again with this BC cartoon.

another fundie scumbag.

are you willing to go to find insult and offense where there is none?

Because that is also obvious.

no question about it

just 4 panels.

the symbolism is clear to all who wish to see.

my butt. Take a look and the long history of the representation of outhouses in cartoons, and the use of the crecent moon in real life on outhouses.

of the use of a crescent moon on outhouse doors, but hart's use of symbols speaks plainly to me.

he's using the crescent moon, (an islamic ikon akin to xtianity's cross) that is coincidently also commonly found on outhouses as a convienient symbol of his opinion of Islam.

why would you think it's not possible that fundy trash like hart wouldn't take a whack at islam?

1. Hart uses symbols but he is also clear when he intends a religious message, as with the menorah morphing into the cross.

2. The "controversial" symbols here are the crescent moon in the outhouse door and the crescent moon in the sky. As has already been noted, outhouses are commonly depicted by Hart, and by many others, with a crescent moon on their doors. It's also been noted that Hart uses a crescent moon to indicate "night" in his cartoons (I seem to recall a sun to indicate "day," too.)

3. Think about how a cartoonist can indicate that someone is in an outhouse. Unless he wants to draw a little sign that says "Caveman in outhouse," he needs to show the caveman entering the outhouse. That would take several drawings. Hart shows the caveman walking toward the outhouse, then the word "SLAM!" indicates that he opened and closed the door and is now in the outhouse (the second drawing shows just the outhouse) and then, in the third drawing, gives the punchline. It's not very funny but most cartoonists can't be very funny on a daily basis.

4. Why does the door SLAM? Because that's a typical Hart way of indicating action. Another cartoonist might have said "The door closed behind the caveman" but that's too literal and interferes with the cartoon's flow. Someone said "You wouldn't slam an outhouse door." Well, YOU wouldn't but this is a cartoon. YOU wouldn't carve messages on large stone tablets and throw them in the sea but B.C, characters do it all the time. And the stone tablets defy natural laws and float to a farway land, returning with new messages.

5. Yes, the word "slam" is part of the word "Islam." So are the words "I," "is,"
"lam," and "am." How far are we going to take this?

It is flat out silly to think this is a religious slur.

I thought everyone knew that! ;)

nt

but hart's message speaks plainly to me.

he's using the crescent moon, (an islamic ikon akin to xtianity's cross) that is coincidently also commonly found on outhouses as a convienient symbol of his opinion of Islam.

what's so hard to see about that?

edit for clarity.

purposefully insulting Islam with the moon on the outhouse for the decades he has been doing BC? And he is the only one on the planet who is doing it, while all the others who are putting moons on outhouses and moons in the night sky are innocent of such offenses?

I think, as I said above, people are searching for anything they can find to give them and excuse to be offended and outraged.

It's the moon on the door, plus the moon in the sky (and Hart usually draws cartoons that take place during the day, unless there are other reasons such as putting floating religious symbols in the sky, he clearly set the sketch at night for the purpose of putting in a crescent moon), plus the unnecessary use of the word "SLAM" (you don't write the word "slam" in a cartoon to indicate a door is being closed, this is another example of Hart breaking convention for symbolism), plus the connotation that Islam is full of shit, plus the fact that Hart has created racist shit like this before.

plus the unnecessary use of the word "SLAM" (you don't write the word "slam" in a cartoon to indicate a door is being closed, this is another example of Hart breaking convention for symbolism)

I am going to search BC archives to see if I can find other cartoons where he wrote "Slam" to indicate a door being closed. If it is a regularity for him your will you retract your statement?

Assuming "slam" is being used to show a door being shut normally, and not an actually slamming of the door violently.

Assuming "slam" is being used to show a door being shut normally, and not an actually slamming of the door violently.

doors shut normally are not slammed. They are shut normally.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

Here is one where between frames is says WHAM to indicate that a bug got hit with a club. Done in the exact style of "Slam".

http://www.comics.com/creators/bc/archive/bc-20031116.html

Seems only 30 days worth of toons are available at the site.

Hitting a bug deserves a "wham." Shutting a door does not imply a "slam."

...isn't it possible that Hart suddenly realized a dual use for his oft used cresent moon and was having a chuckle? I don't pay much attention to BC but I'd have to ask: If outhouse (with crescent moons on them) have been in his strip in the past then don't the characters already know that they stink? Is this the first time that a BC character has gone into one of these outhouses?

...isn't it possible that Hart suddenly realized a dual use for his oft used cresent moon and was having a chuckle? I don't pay much attention to BC but I'd have to ask: If outhouses (with crescent moons on them) have been in his strip in the past then don't the characters already know that they stink? Is this the first time that a BC character has gone into one of these outhouses?

He is upset with the album Farmhouse

with the Moon symbol showing up on both the door and in the sky. His character is stating that something 'stinks in here' as in we are shitting on our planet. Just my 2cents.

The way I first saw it, the guy walked into the outhouse and wasn't aware someone was already in it. However a "christian" man would be less likely to put up something like that in a comic strip.

The "Slam" sound may be necessary, but look where it is placed: between the panels where it is pretty easy to read. That could have been easily placed WITHIN one of the other panels. After all there is plenty of space within each of the panels.

And if the moons were supposed to indicate the night time, then why include the dark sky and the character in black (we know he's white so it isn't a race issue).

Hart did in fact have a strip where the moon could be seen during the day. The sky was white and both charachters could be easily identified. Quite a contrast to the excuses seen being expoused by Hart.

If Hart had read the bible then he perhaps would remember that its best not to offend, as this verse points out:

"Proverbs 18:19 - A brother offended is harder to be won than a strong city: and their contentions are like the bars of a castle."

Really, I don't care if he thinks Islam is a shit-house, he is an artist and has a right to express himself, just like that guy who put a cross in a jar full of piss and shit and called it a masterpiece. This falls under freedom of expression.

and is offended by this cartoon? And why, exactly?

To me it's just an unfunny, obtuse cartoon. If it is trying to be funny or offensive, the execution of the "joke" is poor at best, as evidenced by the lot of us who just don't get it.

edit: Let's say JH was trying to be insulting in this panel. I think he failed just because it's obtuse. So why be insulted over something that's poorly done to start with? There are more important things to argue with than a cartoon anyway.

I'm not being argumentative. I'm genuinely curious as to what it is I, among a lot of other people, am not seeing.

moon.



AND what do you think of a characters race if all you can see is the whites of their eyes.

indicates NIGHT! Always has in BC. And the character is Dark because, again, NIGHT!

The Simpsons are often portrayed as only eyeballs when it is dark in the room. Are the Simpsons racist? NO!

Hart doesn't draw things at night unless there's a reason.

People don't foolishly read meaning into things when it's not there unless they are predisposed towards seeing things slanted according to a certain agenda.

But based on his own work and the content of his character.

I mean when he doesnt go all political his B.C and wizard of I.D is quite genius but even I can see that this is just a anti islam comic

two crescent moons, word "SLAM" then he says it stinks.. and theres nothing funny about it.

i reserve the right to make fun of any religion i want to make fun of. i don't see any reason a fundy asshole xtian would have less of that right simply because he/she is a fundy asshole xtian.

but yes, i know. it doesn't have anything to do with rights. it has everything to do with tolerance. but it's kinda silly to expect tolerance from a fundy xtian. they would be pretty inconsistent if they started showing it now.

...isn't whether or not he has the right to make fun of another religion, but whether or not he is, in fact, doing that.

i don't care. if you really pressed me for my guess, i'd go with "probably." i'd base that on the fact that he's a fundy xtian, and so assuming the worst from him is simply common sense.

Honestly, I know Johnny Hart is a fundamentalist, and I know he did that bizarre and offensive menorah/cross thing, but honestly, this is the biggest fucking stretch I've ever heard in my life.

First off, the symbol of Islam is not a Crescent. It's a Crescent and a Star.

Secondly, outhouses are always depicted as having fucking crescent shapes on their doors. Is Gary Larson anti-Muslim for his depictions of outhouses?

Third, the joke is that he goes to a bathroom, and it smells. Really. That's it. BC regularly has humor at about this intelligence level, and if you don't know that, it's because you don't regularly read the funny pages.

The reason the figure is only white at his eyes is because it's nighttime, hence the fucking moon. This is another convention of comics, based on the fact that in real life, YOU CAN BARELY FUCKING SEE PEOPLE AT NIGHT.

This is not an anti-Islamic slur, no matter what brand of idiotic semiotic theory you practice. It's a dumb cartoon, but that's all.

Is it possible that he was trying to portray the character as not knowing what he had entered, since it was so dark? It's the only thing that makes sense besides the anti-Islam theory. I think he would have put a star somewhere near the moon if he had meant it as one of his fundy 'toons. He's just not that subtle. 'Course, that doesn't mean an old dog can't learn new tricks....

in the middle of the night. Big deal. Ho Hum.

...Too bad I can't find a link online:

Gary Larson drew a dog standing atop an overturned car, howling in triumph, but due to the placement of the car's under-parts, it could also be interpreted as ... well... the dog humping the car.

It wasn't intentional and Larson was mortified once someone pointed it out to him, but given the "The Far Side"'s twisted view of things, a lot of people thought he'd done it on purpose. The fact was, it never entered his mind that it could be seen that way, otherwise he would have changed something.

I'm not a fan of Hart's, but I believe his denials on this one. Like I said somewhere earlier, he's just not that subtle when he gets preachy.

from http://www.christianitytoday.com/cr/7r2/7r2018.html

he might be less subtle than you think:

"I find myself trying to put the gospel into practically every strip I create without being obvious about it," he says.

however, i don't think this is a "slam". just really boring and unfunny.

there is no way I would have had even a smidgen of thought about a slur against Islam.

No one angrily closes an outhouse door and it's completely unnecessary. It doesn't make any sense until you start looking at it from that view and realize he was trying to get a certain point across.

But the SLAM is misplaced. He could have left it out and it still wouldn't have been funny, but with the "SLAM" in there it raises a question about the whole meaning. Like I said, I don't know, but since it wasn't very funny many have had to find their own interpretation of what it means.