I feel less comfortable with Dean after Hardball

He said his favorite movie is A Beautiful Mind and called Russia the soviet union three times. He said he hoped he wouldn't be drafted for Vietnam when he took his medical records in.

He said he is keeping his governor's records secret because some letters to him have personal information about HIV in them but his spokesman already said before they were keeping them secret because of political reasons.

The Karl Rove label for Dean("flaky") fit too close for my comfort this time.

The cast of "That 70s Show" is infinitely easier on the eyes... ;)

Those type wear thin fast. Oh I still call the USSR the Soviet Union also.Some times over the years I have called it Russia.I just can not make up mind which I like better.

Horrible movie!! Still I would support Dean if he wins...I hate Bashing any of the Dems...every last one of them would be a million times better than GWB.

and I thought it was very good. Most of us in the Mental health agency where I worked last year went to see the movie to see what we could glean to help our clients.
As far as the Soviet Union comment just part of the imperfect mind and I'm sure he kicked himself when told after the show he did it.

I haven't seen it yet (have it on tape).

It's great, gorgeously filmed.

Trust me.

it made me want to puke. I turned it off instead.

I thought he was already at the bottom of your grocery list.

Never fear!

You're very transparent

you got that right

I liked that movie.

I went to my physical during Vietnam fucking PRAYING I wouldn't get drafted and ANYONE who says he didn't is a goddamned LIAR.

The governor records thing is complete bullshit, all governors have some records private and you KNOW IT.

My question is, are you astroturfing for Bush* or one of Deans Dem opponents, because your critiques do not appear to be intellectually honest or supported by anything other than Rovian Bullshit speak, if I may respectfully so suggest.

What part of my post isn't truthful?

Maybe all governors have private records but Dean gave the excuse of HIV letters when his spokesman already said they were hidden for political reasons.

He did say soviet union three times.

When will you call on him to release them?

What's wrong with someone like a fricking move?

Hey, I STILL CALL IT THE SOVIET UNION. I'm old. That's what we called it for fifty fucking years.

Why must you defame the next democratic president of the united states on a Dem board?

Are you lost?

I'm just curious

like he should

he didn't release any memos. No job reviews. No reason for his firing.

All of Clark's records and job reviews have been released. Hundreds of pages have been made available. Hundreds.

Someone wrote that yesterday, and iirc, that has been debunked.

All job reviews have been released. Three and four stars do not get job reviews, so those, since they have never existed, were never released.

The reason for cutting short Clark's NATO command, and promoting Wm Cohen's (R) good buddy Ralston (R) has been reviewed on this board, and by Clark on national tv many times. I am sorry you missed it. Shelton may be contacted through Red Cap, a military contractor recently awarded a large contract in Iraq, or Ralston, who may be reached through the defense lobby of Wm Cohen. Shelton (R) who never gave Clark a reason for cutting his time short, is still not talking.

to see. I don't know where you get your information.

outright falsehood.

Clark's gotta whole portion of his website with his job reviews.
He also wrote a book with passages regarding his so-called "firing".

Check the facts before you embarass yourself further.

If you want to help your guy, don't compare him to bush,. M'kay.

he does that all the time....

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Accusing people who have opinions other than yours as being stealth Republicans is not respectful. That's what the post was about: OPINIONS. Just like assholes, everyone's got one.

Perhaps.

Tell me what wrong about taste in movies and keeping records secret when all governors do.

What's respectful about MAKING UP BS accusations about a candidate for spite?

And he was the one finding common cause with Rove.

Something stinks.

eom

Can we please stop the Clark/Dean bashing. Dean was great tonight!

I'm sure Clark will do great on Hardball as well. He seems to shine in that type of interview, as Dean has (finally) learned to do.

That's the only problem I have with him. He cannot win.

you might make it come true, is that what you want?

Let it sink

Gore, would have produced a Nader victory.

NOW what do you have to say?????????????????????

Really. So you will then have no opinions on anything else "negative" that the bashers post?

I'll keep an eye out for you.

showing for much of the interview...
Failed, as do all the 'news' people, to mention the FACTS about Chimpy's military record, in comparing Chimpy's to Dean's; totally failed to mention that Shrub got preferential, privileged treatment just to get into the ANG; no mention of his failure to show up for his physical; his year or so of being AWOL, etc. AND he slammed Clinton during the post-show interview, repeating the slam twice to make sure it was heard...
I think Dean did all right.

He hit him hard on unions and that was it. Dean got off SO easy.

???

Somebody ought to ask him a tough question and force him to answer it once in a while.

Odd how people see things entirely different. For me this interview re-afrimed all the reasons I want this man as my president.

Just what exactly fo you think is in these records that would expose him other than his statement that he was the one that killed Kenedy?

Whats wrong with a beutifull mind? you decision on who is to be your next president comes down to what movie they like?

He also refered to it as russia and the former societ union.

If I didnt know better I would say you were just lookiong for any reason you could find to pick on the guy.

It's refreshing to hear someone tell the truth instead of telling one thing one time and then something totally different the next.....and who knows whether or not he's a republican or a democrat,for the war or against it....likes the bu$h mis-adminstration or doesn't like it....I think you get my drift. :evilgrin:

That probably isn't why he's hiding his records, wouldn't you agree

That probably isn't why he's hiding his records, wouldn't you agree

That probably isn't why he's hiding his records, wouldn't you agree

of his explaination, or do you quite understand that he used the possibility of there being a letter from an AIDS patient as an EXAMPLE?

The law allows Dean to redact any information that infringes on a private citizens privacy. Dean could release the papers without endangering anyone's privacy.

Instead, he lied about it. Just like he lied about CFR, saying he wanted to fight Bush*, and then using the money to fight Dems.

Dean says he's not releasing the records in order to protect people's privacy, but the truth is the laws allow him to release the records while redacting any personal info. He could release the papers WITHOUT invading anyone's privacy. Instead, DEAN LIED about it.

Just like he lied when he said he was opting out of CFR in order to fight Bush*, and then started using the money to fight his Dem opponents.

INSTIGATING flames as usual...


AND this is a facetious continuation of another thread.

Why don't you vote for his candidate?
What a disingenuous thread.:boring:

Mim.

n/t

:nuke:

That's one huge reason why I love Clark, he can beat that scum hands down! The other huge reason is I think he would make an incredible, maybe the best ever, president!
:kick:

If Clark were the obvious front-runner right now he would be getting attacked as much as Dean. And I don't mean by the Repukes, I mean by the folks from slitheren house residing here at DU.

So be prepared. I like Clark alot and am still watching things. I want a strong candidate, but am hesitant about some.

Please don't shoot us all in the foot because you like Clark so much more. Don't get mixed up in the wrong crowd around here, if you know what I mean.

now prove it.

You see, you cannot. So let others make their choices and go support your candidate of choice in the meantime.

Stow your negative shit, it sounds too ..... how do you say ..... uh .... premature.

I think I'll stay away another week... or maybe 52.

If it's clark, dean or whoever comes out of this mess...he got airtime as have others and he maximized it...like he should

always flame wars. Dean supporters don't want to take shit and Dean haters cannot help but attack.

There are people in the Democratic party who differ with you on who should be president and you don't want to talk to them anymore?

* They are sure of their opinion and nothing can change it.

* When you agree with them, you are being reasonable. When you don't, you're crazy, an idiot, or participating in "herd mentality".

* If you start a conversation critical of their candidate, you are fomenting hate.

* If they start a conversation critical of YOUR candidate, they are doing their social duty by presenting facts to the citizenry.

* If you corner them in a debate, they cry out that you are "attacking the critic and ignoring the issue".

* There is only one right answer, and they have it.



I think there is more than just Free Republic reading the GOP playbook.

BTW: your page needs a lot of work

Clark and Dean supporters are virtually the same for the most part.

using your Ignore button. It gets quieter right away.

I wonder why?:puke:

that movie was indeed terrible

WTF could blame him on Vietnam?!? Certainly not I, nor my father who is still alive by following suite.

Russia/soviet union, wtf cares? confederate flag/medicare, wedge creation, and lame ass issues to pick apart a strong contender. Grow up. Bet 90% of ignorant America wont know the difference till ya tell em.

He had quite a good point on the files, and yes, that is "political" IMO.

One thing that I thought was strange about that movie was that it seemed to argue that love could solve a mental health problem. I thought, man, this guy needs some serious medical attention, like a good therapist, with, perhaps, some pharmacologica assitance. I hope Dean isn't basing his health care program on the lesson in a Beautiful Mind. (However, if I understand his position on racial equality, a Beautiful Mind might have influenced him -- doesn't he say that changing subconscious feelings was the final frontier for race relations.)

Now, before anyone starts bashing me, I'm trying to be half-funny. I'm sure Dean hasn't done a deep reading of this film, and he was just giving an honest reaction. But I am being honest. That movie did make me think those things long before today.

Does anyone have a different reading of that film?

I thought the theme was centered the idea that in a world of uncertainty, love is constant.

...go figure, a movie that means different things to different people. Let's all pick out a meaning and take shots at Dean ("I hope Dean isn't basing his health care program on the lesson in a Beautiful Mind").

Can't anybody have a favorite friggin movie, for chrissakes? One of mine is "9 1/2 Weeks". Not for the nudity, not for the central theme (manipulation), but for the cinematography. I think it's one of the most visually perfect movies ever made. If I was asked my top 10 favorite movies, it'd make the list. Can you imagine the uproar if one of the candidates gave a slightly controversial answer to one of these questions, even if it was true for non-controversial reasons?

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

It's because it gives humanity to a man with a mental illness. So many movies make people with mental illnesses into Hannibal Lector types.

because she said that she wished love was all it took to cure her problem and that she thought people who saw the movie would think people with mental illnesses wouldn't need doctors, therapy and medication, and should deal with their problems on a personal level and get on with things.

you seem to want to listen to Repukes

I think his answer about the records was a good one, and let's talk about Bush's gubernatorial recrds and where any of them are.

as usual.

Imagine that, bitter whining about the movie choice. Baby, you are scraping the bottom in such sour desperation that you now find yourself agreeing with Rove.

:D

Really, you shouldn't touch each other like that in public.

I thought it was kind of funny in a no holds barred way.I dont agree with it.

Hell, they even nailed him to a cross.

political reality to deal with... all governors seal some records. bush sealed practically all of them. the bottom line for me is that wesley has never had to cast one vote, veto one bill, or do anything else to prove his convictions. he says the right things now, but was saying completely different things (at bu$hco fundraisers no less) a year ago.frankly, i don't trust clark as far as i could throw him. he is very electable though- WHOOPEE!! peolpe lie to get elected. i could tell you that i was jesus if it would get me elected president... let us not forget that prior to taking office, Bu$h was a "compassionate conservative" and a "uniter"... with Dean, you know (mostly) what you are getting. with clark, i haven't the faintest clue...

you gotta be kidding

what has clark done to support liberal causes throughout his lifetime other than the self-serving pandering of the past year or so? (and please don't say "he fought for this country..", i will vomit on my keyboard.)

While serving his country (hold your puke, even the Swedes have conscripted national service, at least ours is still voluntary) Clark fought VERY hard for the families and children of those men and women in his command. Better health care, improved educational standards, vocational training, improved housing standards, domestic violence programs, improved race relations and expanded day care.

Not exactly a GOP agenda there wouldn't you agree?

From a "98 report to congress:



RESOURCE PRIORITIES - AN INVESTMENT IN THE FUTURE


USEUCOM provides input through DoD channels to the Secretary of Defense and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, concerning resource requirements through the Integrated Priorities List (IPL). However, I would like to highlight some of the most important aspects of USEUCOM's resource requirements.

Quality of Life

"The judgement, creativity, and fortitude of our people will remain the key to success in future joint operations."

Joint Vision 2010

Our most precious resource is the service member and his or her family. Quality of life (QOL) is one of my very top theater priorities, as it is inextricably linked to readiness, retention, the reinforcement of service core values, healthy family life, high morale and mission accomplishment.

The quality of our housing, medical care, schools, religious services, public facilities, services and recreation activities define the American standard of living. The expectation of the DoD family, serving across the vast USEUCOM Theater, is no different.

Our goal is to ensure all USEUCOM forces enjoy the optimum achievable standard of living; comparable to that of the society they are pledged to defend and that of their DoD counterparts stateside.

Our most important 1998 QOL strategy objective was to analyze and quantify the impact QOL has on readiness. We took "expert testimony" from installation commanders and senior enlisted advisors from across the theater. Their conclusions were identical: quality of life is critical to personnel readiness and retention. They are not satisfied with the quality of the programs in this AOR. With the exception of Equal Opportunity and the Chaplaincy programs, none of the other 23 total program areas evaluated compares favorably with its CONUS counterpart. Family housing and barracks, pay and retirement, health care and dependent education were consistently identified as lagging the farthest behind. We must do better in compensating service members and families whose well-being is constantly taxed through repetitive deployments and the stress of family separations. USAREUR soldiers, for example, are often deployed two to three times during a normal overseas tour. Nonetheless, USAREUR continues to enjoy record retention rates. Our analysis tells us that these rates correlate directly to our mission focus while emphasizing soldier and family programs.

Overseas troops, civilian employees and families often rely solely on DoD-provided programs for support because they do not have the same off-base alternatives as their CONUS counterparts. Dependent education is a prime example. Today over half of USEUCOM service members have families with children in school. The DoD education system is the 27th largest US public school system, with 160 schools serving 78,000 students. USEUCOM provides logistical support for 118 of these schools and 50,000 students. Funding new programs such as all-day kindergarten and improved student-to-teacher ratios are extremely important to USEUCOM QOL. Your support for this funding is crucial.

Individuals responding to a recent theater-wide survey targeting dependent-education issues identified dependent education as the most important of eight QOL support-program areas. Our children deserve a world-class school system with curriculum and programs to match the best. This is the standard our military personnel and their families expect and deserve.

Athletics, music, art and associated after school activities are as critical as the core academic subjects of math, science, history and English.

Many schools do not offer vocational programs. They have been forced to choose between college preparatory or vocational offerings, because their budget cannot support both. We must take aggressive action to expand vocational, technical and school-to-work programs.

Additionally, I believe in the importance of linking Department of Defense Education Activity (DoDEA) programs to the National Education Goals and Presidential Initiatives. We must work toward establishing an 18:1 student-teacher ratio for grades 4-12. We also need to push for program-based staffing. More counselors, technical support and special-needs teachers to match curriculum requirements not school size. I would also like to see theater-level School Boards that would participate in all DoDEA related activities.

The health and well being of our active duty and family members is increasingly important as we face an increased military operations tempo with decreases in recruitment and retention. We have an increasing responsibility to provide a world-class health and dental plan, with uniformity of medical and dental benefits and standardized processes for beneficiaries as they move throughout the world.

The $50M funding received via FY99 Emergency Supplemental Appropriation for Morale, Welfare and Recreation, and Personnel Support for contingency deployments was greatly appreciated and will improve the QOL for all those deployed. Additionally, I fully support the pay and retention issues addressed by the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the service component leaders. Improvement to QOL issues, in the long run, will serve to improve every CINC's manning concerns.

Housing

Last year Congress supported all but one of our FY99 Military Construction and Family Housing projects. I am grateful for your support, as are the troops and their families who benefit from these projects. The challenge of eliminating and renovating large numbers of inadequate housing is still a huge obstacle we attack on a daily basis. Those of you who have visited our theater know that more than one-half of our family housing and barracks fall far short of the DoD standards. Barracks constructed by the German Army in the 1930's have only received minor improvements and necessary maintenance and repair. Quarters built during the Marshall Plan era still have original kitchens, baths and utility systems.

Our Service Components have used a "worst first" strategy to upgrade our housing inventory. Current Defense guidance requires elimination of gang latrines by 2008 and elimination of inadequate housing by 2010. All services are on track to meet these goals. However, many of our service members will retire before their quarters are brought up to those standards.


The top-line increases reflected in the FY00 budget provided significant additional resources for Real Property Maintenance (RPM). However, remaining shortfalls in RPM accounts may further exacerbate the inadequate state of our housing. After must-fund requirements (fire protection, utility and trash removal bills, contracts and civilian pay) are met, there are precious few dollars left to do much more than emergency housing repairs. Commanders are making every effort to stretch their limited budgets, but our need is greater than the resources available.


Congress should remain committed to fixing housing in this theater.

That's a helpful response to someone who's constantly juggling his second place choice.

Do you have any other information about his civic, business, or professional life outside the important but limited relm of the military that would give further insight into his political principals and possible policy direction? I'm aware of some, but they are less than reassuring, so rather than argue, I'll simply ask if you can offer more examples that would be appealing to progressives.

That's really the only answer that stood out to me. You don't arrange attacks on our embassies, military ships, and take out 3000 U.S. citizens and then get turned over to international court. That was BAD.

The rest is typical Dean. I loved how Matthews hammered him about the physical and then when Dean finally said he hoped to get out of the draft, Matthews called him honest. lol. Of course, Tweety thinks Bush is honest too.

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This is how America thinks. I don't know what country you're living in, but that's just the way it is. Dean doesn't care if bin laden is brought to justice in the U.S., it isn't even a preference. Makes no difference to him. People aren't going to accept that in a President. Call me anything you want, doesn't change the facts.

People aren't going to accept that in a President.

Yes,there's been so much outcry directed towards Bush for this from Americans. :eyes:

I'm not so sure that you do know how America thinks.

There was alot of debate after Sept 11. Most people aren't going to accept just turning bin laden over to some other court to try without some diplomatic reason that would make it in our best interest to do so. Dean offered nothing. Just yep, give him to the Hague. If Dean wins this, you just have no idea what they're going to do to him. Raise taxes, anti-war, reregulate, guaranteed health coverage to everyone, turn over the U.S. most wanted criminal in history to a foreign court. Yeah, that's just what America has been voting for all these years. I think some people spend a little too much time with only people on the left.

no such thing.If you want to hangout with right-wingers live it up though,I'll take a pass.

I spend time with all kinds of people, regular every day Americans. That's why I know how they think. And they're not liking Howard Dean. The only ones who like him are nimby liberal snobs. At least around here.

not regular?

You said you avoid right-wingers. I said you can't do that in a small town, you're forced to mingle with regular every day Americans. You can't isolate yourself from various political groups who are also regular every day Americans. Whether you know any regular every day Americans or not, I don't know. I'm sure a big city is just as full of regular every day people as a small town. Maybe you should go find some, even if they are right-wingers. You might understand why people around here say Dean can't win.

so you're saying I should get my opinion of Dean from people "even if they're right-wingers"? Is that where you got your opinion of Dean from?

No thanks...they offer nothing worth understanding.I wish you felt the same way.

That's what I said. If you think Dean's policies are going to sell to average Americans, you're just mistaken. Those right-wingers have as much influence over their friends and neigbors, if not more, than left wingers. The less stupid things Dean says the better chance he'd have. Unfortunately, he's too busy pandering to realize the people he's pandering to represent a small number of Americans.

If you think you have the inside line on average Americans more power to ya!

i've served in the military (peacetime) and i would REALLY like your HONEST answer. had YOUR number been up would YOU be PRAYING to go?

:eyes:

THANK YOU.

especially if AWOL would end up looking braver for joining the national guard

you are no better than SHRUB

HE LIED

YOU LIE

phony as SHIT!

you disgrace ANYONE who served or was man enough NOT to serve.

he didnt' "dodge" anything and know what? if he DID that was HIS choice. i am a VET and i ADMIRE Clinton for leaving for England for a war he felt was unjust.

CHRIST. Dean didn't even do THAT and you bash the shit out of him.

SHRUB needs more voters (believe me). i would personally like to see you post about HIS heroics in Viet Namn

:eyes:

:puke:

if national security was an issue and admitting I wanted a deferment would turn off voters

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I wish it was but it isn't.

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I've not seen this person attack you personally. What kind of credit are you to YOUR candidate? Or this message board? Or the party? Or to intellectuals?

He did what was required, fair and above board. It wasn't even a voluntarily request college deferment

in order to get to his senior year at Yale, when he requested a physical. If he got through all those years with no deferment and without being called up, his draft board was asleep at the wheel.

i live in the south for god's sake, and i can tell you that i honestly feel (and the polls have shown) that most people here have moved on- and the ones that haven't will NOT vote for a democrat, be it wesley clark, george bush with a "D" after his name, or jesus christ himself.

national paranoia (oops- i mean security) is bush's only issue, and apparantly, clarks' only issue as well. the MAJORITY of the people now think iraq was a bad move. we are not as paranoid now as we were sept '01. people will be voting for the economy, jobs, and healthcare. clinton was a draft dodger too, it sure didn't hurt his 8-year presidency much.

Dean people whistling past the graveyard if they don't think so

we are not running against a man with clark's military record- we are running against a spoiled brat that went AWOL from the texas air national guard, where he was draft-dodging to begin with. Dean is very crafty, and has millions of his own to play with- he can buy publicity too, and absolutely smear bush in many different ways. bush really has set himself up to be smeared, we just need a candidate with the balls to do it.

AWOL will spend millions making people think he has a war and foreign policy record because of Iraq and it will work

and you never replied to my post above- where has clark shown (through action) a dedication to liberal causes?- the past years' platitudes notwithstanding..

draft. And he never did. He applied for conscientious objector status but was declined. Turned out he did not need it anyway. The draft dodger stuff is just more proof of our Pravda media. Doing their duty for the BFEE.
Peace
Wildman
Al Gore is My President

Dr. Dean's outstanding quality is that he says what is on his mind, and WYSIWYG with him. I've had it up to here with slimeball lying repuke a-holes--"politicians," in short. For Dean to admit his true feelings automatically makes him braver than Bushit to begin with. Bushit "braver for joining the national guard"? hahahahaha--yeah, let's see them spin THAT one. why don't you write a statement for Bushit to make about it and send it to Rove?

And get over your dumb idea that Dean "can't win"--no Dem candidate can win if people like you continue to wring your hands and spew hatred and disinformation. Just support your candidate and let me support mine.

if this offends anyone here on the(evermore listing leftward) "HMS Democratic Underground". Ask Pitt's Dad how he feels?

Vets-for-Vets in '04:grouphug:

I felt uneasy about some of Dean's remarks, but they seemed to come on the heels of classic Matthews barking and interruption. Chris, I think, has the ability to piss off the Pope. For the most part I was happy about how he presented himself.

Still, though, I think Clark is the best bet as we endeavor to dethrone King George.

Whatever works!

I loved his comment about changing the political dialogue from abortion, guns, gays and god..... to education, healthcare and jobs.

You tryin' to start a Flame Thang ?

:)

to be uncomfortable because he likes A Beautiful Mind? Why do you care what movie he likes? Does a good president have to like a certain kind of movie?

If Lincoln had lived to say he liked Our American Cousin, would he make you uncomfortable? -cuz its a real snore.

Don't try to take it away from him!

Eloriel

If we nominate Dean, the earth will EXPLODE!

I hope Clark does well next week, I'm sure he will. If there is something you did not like about Dean come up with a solution and I hope that Dean supporters will do the same next week, because we do NOT know who we will be working for to win the general eclection next summer. ABB

You were concerned after he mentioned 'A Beautiful Mind'? Excuse my ignorance, but were you being sarcastic?

He answered straight and to the point on everything. And his answer tonight about the draft deferrment was the best I've seen him give. Yes, he took the X-rays in because the army would want to know if he had a back problem. When asked if he wanted a deferrment, he made it clear he wanted one but wasn't dodging the draft.

Towards the end he did really well. He said over and over that we need to fight for jobs, education, and health care. The Republicans are running on war, God, and gays but we need to run on jobs, education, and health care.

He said he admired Harry Truman because he made momentous decisions and didn't give a damn what the polls said about him.

Which brings us to his signing of the Civil Unions bill. He explained his position on gay rights eloquently.

Dean would fucking tear Bush apart in a debate.

It would almost be embarassing to watch.

Dean has sort of a direct way about him, that I think is going to get him elected.

He was my number one, until tonight.

I'm officially undecided at this point. Any one of the nne could get my vote right now, including Lieberman.

both predictable and entertaining. We should start to take pools on when you will flip flop again. :pals:

before I cast my vote.

Orders from Welch, I guess.

Man, talk about delusion.

If that's the worst you can say about any candidate after going on that goofy show, I'm thinking the guy is doing all right.

As for "flaky," poor Karl. If Dean gets the nomination and debates Georgie boy, who's going to look flaky in reality? Karl knows. And so do you and I.

You didn't like it? OK. But you've got to like the guy's favorite movie? Sorry, if I find that to be a rather humorous criticism.

The cornball Ron Howard direction and especially the "three chord" drama musical score, ARRRRGHHH!!! And Jen Connely's makeup as an old lady at the end had me busting out laughing. However I don't care WHAT his fave movie is. Don't care! Honestly, are poeple looking for some kind of clone of themselves to vote for? Or someone who has never ever said anything dumb or done anything wrong, these standards are applied so selectively....if the weren't you would hear more about GBW going AWOL!

I hope every last one of the Dem candidates KICK ASS on Hardball and every other show they go on. I hope they pound Bush as they should, and constructively discuss their own differences. I want my choice for the nomination to be difficult because the quality of the candidates is THAT good. Quite frankly. I think it is a difficult choice because I think the quality of the candidates is THAT good. The GOP really has no one who can honestly tackle the top four or five Dems in an honest election with serious debates. Now I know that there won't be serious debates, but nonetheless.

GO DEMS!

Worn old tactic that sounds as truthful as saying "I've been a Democrat all my life, but..."

His popularity is based on one issue, opposition to the Iraq war. I definitely support this position, but I doubt its enough to carry him into the White House. He's got to show a lot more knowledge, policy, and, yes, personality to get there. I like Dean but I believe Clark has a better chance at winning because he is more skilled in foreign and military affairs, is incredibly charismatic, and can get the votes of Dems, Indys, moderate Repubs, and a whole bunch of DUers! If you don't believe that last one just check out the recent DU presidential polls :D

his popularity is based on a dynamic that you just don't "get"--he has touched a chord with the whole spectrum of voters, from conservative to liberal, young to old, etc., and it's not just "opposition to the war." it has to do with empowerment, with putting an end to corruption and favoritism, with having a SANE foreign policy, with reordering priorities so that education and jobs are once again in the forefront.

whatever, I need to go to bed and this is not written as thoroughly as I'd like.

What did GWB know about Int'l issues in 2000? He still doesn't. At least Dean was able to know enough not to get involved in Iraq. That proves he knows more than Bush already.

As for the governor's records, it is a non-issue. Did anyone bring the issue up to in 2000? Bush's records were sealed then. Why was it not a factor then?

This is part of a smeer Dean campaign. They are employing a tried-and-true methodology used by the right-wing machine that has taken over our country. "First, they concoct an inflammatory story that serves their political goals. (“Al Gore’s a liar.”) {"Dean has sealed records"} They repeat it. (“Al Gore lies again!”){Dean won't release records"} They embellish it. (“Are his lies pathological, or are they merely malicious?”){"What does Dean have to hide?"} They try to push it into the mainstream media. All too often, they succeed. (“Tall Tales: Is What We’ve Got Here a Compulsion To Exaggerate?” New York Times, October 15, 2000." -from “Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them,” Al Franken

Yeah, that is sure flaky.

that is horrible.
the world is going to end. even people who voted for Gore last time are going to vote for Bush because of this. it is truly unacceptable.

You folks are friggin hopeless. A hundred pairs of eyes, tops, read these damn threads, and far fewer minds are changed than what would ever make all this energy worth it. I shall not be reading any more dem candidate threads until the convention. Don't believe me? Wanna bet?

this seems like such a waste of time. i'd prefer to spend my evenings with intelligent, thoughtful people who focus on the important issues.

trolls.

So negative ! ;-)

He spoke honestly and from the heart on Hardball. Big Deal, he called Russia the Soviet Union. But he was correct. Iran was being supplied with Soviet made weapons.

And Russia might as well be the Soviet Union with Putin as their president. That ex-KGB spook is using the same political intimidation the Soviets did to snuff out dissent. And the new "democracy" in Russia is even more corrupt than the Commies were.

I'm proud of Dean. He doesn't give concocted politician answers. That's what I sense from Clark.

I agreed with everything Dean said. And he even answered the questions that Matthews gave him. He danced around the draft issue at first, but then finally answered the question, "Were you hoping you'd get a deferment?" with an honest, "Yes."

I like Clark, but there are things about him I don't like.

So far, Dean has been right on. And I'm not buying the whole, "He's not electable" crap anymore. Did you see the audience reactions? Dean inspires when he talks. He's not some zombie giving cliche politician responses like Clark.

Go DEAN!

For Awhile - someone who was leaning to Clark wouldn't speak of a candidate in such terms.

He had Kucinich on a few months ago and completely trashed and humiliated him. It was the worst thing I've ever seen.
Tweety sucks! :puke: He's just another corprate media whore pawn. Nothing more.

I mean couldn't he pull a page from the * administration and just black out the embarrassing stuff?

Or would that be too much black for him?

:hi:

Like you were ever comfortable to start with.

You and your post are a waste of DU bandwidth...

You bash him because of a FUCKING MOVIE?

You repeat LIES about his records?

You agree with ROVE?

I guess Clark will bring out the Republicans to vote. But who for?

Sheesh.

If only the smilie still worked: _|_

So you're not "comfortable?" I'm supposed to worry because you're not comfortable.

Sit on the Bush Medicare bill. See how comfortable THAT is. Sit on the Iraq war. Sit on the state budget cutbacks in education Bush's tax cuts have caused.

Then tell us how comfortable you are.

and those questions on music, philosophy etc, he was schooled on what to say. tweety asks them of all the candidates.

Did you see Dean readjusting himself and getting all nervous when speaking on World affairs?

Most he had to say was he has great people to advise him, UMMMM Bush says the same thing. The more i listen to this guy the more i see how he is soo similar to Bush.

very interested in world affairs, until his presidentail bid thrust him into the political limelight. * looked like a total retard when asked who the leaders of various countries were, but Dean just seemed bored. Not good.

forks?

:spank:

That's what Tweety should have started the show with.

I don't hate Dean or the Deanies here on this board but come on folks... we have to all agree that Tweety played softball with Dean tonight!

That pissed me off because I would have loved to seen Dean put Tweety in his place as he is more than capable of doing. However Tweety didn't give him a reason.

that wasn't asked?

Seriously, I might have left the room and missed it. But did Matthews ask about campaign funding? About Dean's having opted out because of all the GOP money, yet using it in the primary campaign? This is something that does bother me and I had hoped it would be discussed.

I sure as heck don't...in fact, I still call russia the soviet union a few times. It is SOP to keep records from a governorship sealed.

ha, guess who's getting really insecure now? ;-)

A potential president should probably know this, hmm?

someone posts a thread commending dean that is just the opposite of yours BEFORE 30 minutes earlier, and lookie here.

*shaking my damn head*

Fellowship of the Ring should have won best picture that year :P

I didn't see the interview and I'm not attacking Dean, by the way. I just hated that movie.

I say that we are down to the final two. Let the best man win.

Even before Clark entered the race , I had doubts that Dean could win against bush ! Iam from the anyone but bush line of thinking . I will support whom even the Dems decide to put up against bush .I would feel alot more confident if its Clark. Iam sorry to say ,I believe Dean would not win ,hope Iam wrong ,dont think so !

....and besides who in the hell watches MSNBC anymore?

and why the hell should I care? Who are you? Some guy?

Dean is sharp, sincere and has the people's interest at heart. I'm very proud that he's a Dem candidate.

I liked how he answered the question about why some of his records as a gov are sealed. He totally neutralized the issue. And I also liked it when the audience hissed and got Tweety shook up.

This is a Tweety program I might go back and watch again if they're still repeating Tweety on Sundays.

...and I thought Dean looked pretty good. I didn't like how he handled a couple of questions (respecting spending limits and his foreign relations experience, specifically), but overall, I thought it was a decent showing.

because of how miserably the shrub has handled things. I figure that each of the Dem candidates will be much better. I'm too fuzzy on the spending limits and financing of elections, so I shouldn't comment.

Anyhow, all in all, I think all the Dems have done very well on Tweety. Tweety could try to get passed himself and stop clarifying his questions multiple times. Some questions take longer than the answer.

I wouldn't hold my breath.

That's his schtick, and he's schticking to it :)

CONSERVATIVES ARE RUNNING SCARED. So is the Democratic establishment. They do not want him running against Bush and they are doing their damndest to sabotage his chances.

He may flail wildly sometimes, but he'll land the haymaker and that's what people are afraid of.

From the transcript:

DEAN: Iran is a more complex problem because the problem support as clearly verifiable as it is in North Korea. Also, we have less-fewer levers much the key, I believe, to Iran is pressure through the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union is supplying much of the equipment that Iran, I believe, most likely is using to set itself along the path of developing nuclear weapons. We need to use that leverage with the Soviet Union and it may require us to buying the equipment the Soviet Union was ultimately going to sell to Iran to prevent Iran from them developing nuclear weapons. That is also a country that must not be allowed to develop nuclear weapons much the key to all this is foresight. Let’s act now so we don’t have to have a confrontation which may result in force, which would be very disastrous in the case of North Korea and might be disastrous in the case of Iran.

It really is important for a potential president to understand that the Soviet Union hasn't existed in about 15 years. To his credit, he did say "former Soviet Union" at least one time, but I don't understand why he didn't just correctly call it Russia like everyone else. It made him look a tad ignorant.

what bother me as a southern when he mention those religous people when he was taking about Gay Marraige. The south is very into their Reglion Dean I guess Edwards is right you don't know the south

It's not the Soviet Union. It hasn't been the Soviet Union in more than 15 years.

No offense to the blind faithful, but this is important. Dean calling Russia the Soviet Union gives the impression that he doesn't understand the most basic elements of world politics. Obviously, he knows better, but why didn't he just call it Russia like the rest of the world?

Unintentional gaffes are gaffes nonetheless. To Dean supporters - don't just write off gaffes like this because you support Dean. Errors like this are important and are prime candidates to become sound bytes or debate retorts next fall.

Many Dean supporters on DU constantly chastise Clark supporters for being blind to Clark's faults. Let me suggest that Dean supporters do the same regarding their candidate.

They will stick no matter what.

Dean seems to have this habit of making supporters of other candidates less comfortable. I am beginning to think it may be intentional.

People tend to ignore things they do not want to see, as well.