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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-03 11:11 AM
Original message
Dean is No McGovern
Edited on Tue Dec-02-03 11:45 AM by slinkerwink
This ought to make those who've been calling Dean another McGovern have another think coming to them....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50126-2003Nov16.html

At the heart of the anti-Vietnam critique was a wholesale rejection of anti-communist containment, the reigning American foreign policy paradigm in those years. Vietnam was not just "the wrong war at the wrong time." It was, McGovernites believed, the logical culmination of two decades of misguided and immoral Cold War strategy. The problem was not just Richard Nixon but the whole foreign policy "establishment," Democrats and Republicans alike, from Dean Acheson through McGeorge Bundy, all of whom who had taken America down the wrong path. And the answer was not just withdrawal from Vietnam but a complete reorientation of American foreign and defense policy. America was on the wrong side of history; its power and influence in the world were a source not of good but of evil. In the McGovernite view, any war was the wrong war. Americans needed to "come home" both to save themselves and all who suffered from their nation's oppressive global influence.

In this respect, at least, Howard Dean is no George McGovern. He opposed the Iraq war, he says, because it was "the wrong war at the wrong time," not because it was emblematic of a fundamentally misguided American foreign policy. Dean has not, in fact, challenged the reigning foreign policy paradigms of the post-9/11 era: the war on terrorism and the nexus between terrorism and rogue states with weapons of mass destruction. "I support the president's war on terrorism," he told Tim Russert this summer. He supported the war in Afghanistan. He even supported Israel's strike against a terrorist camp in Syria because Israel, like the United States, has the "right" to defend itself. (European Deanophiles take note.) Dean does not call for a reduction in American military power but talks about using the "iron fist" of our "superb military." He talks tough about North Korea and at times appears to be criticizing the Bush administration for not addressing that "imminent" threat more seriously. And he especially enjoys lacerating Bush for not taking the fight more effectively to al Qaeda, a bit like John F. Kennedy criticizing Eisenhower in 1960 for not being tough enough on communism.

Another possibility is that Dean's opposition to the Iraq war has been over-interpreted by his supporters on the Democratic left. They think he rejects the overall course of American foreign policy, just as they do. But maybe he doesn't. They think he's one of them, but his views may not be all that different from those of today's Democratic centrist establishment. When Dean criticizes Bush's foreign policy "unilateralism," he sounds like a policy expert at the Council on Foreign Relations, not a radical. "There are two groups of people who support me because of the war," Dean told Mara Liasson a few months ago. "One are the people who always oppose every war, and in the end I think I probably won't get all of those people." The other group, Dean figures, simply "appreciates the fact" that he "stood up early" and spoke his mind and opposed Bush while other Democrats were cowed. Dean may not be offering a stark alternative to Bush's foreign policy, therefore, so much as he is simply offering Democrats a compelling and combative alternative to Bush himself. The Iraq war provided the occasion to prove his mettle.




The writer, a senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment, writes a monthly column for The Post.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-03 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. kick
I'd like to :kick: all those irrational silly gooses that still do the crazy meme of "Dean is just like McGovern!"
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BigMcLargehuge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-03 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
2. Please keep quoted material to 4 paragraphs of less
with a link back to the source page. This protects DU from copyright lawyers, and in doing so protects the form we all love.

Thanks

Big McLargehuge
DU Moderator
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SonofMass Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-03 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
3. or not
.
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seasat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-03 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
4. Another way Dean is not like McGovern or Dukakis
When attacked Dean fights back, hard. I'm impressed by a number of our canidates that show a lot of backbone when attacked. I'm not impressed by the attacks that these candidates are flinging against each other. I think that when facing the Shrub machine, they'll fire back like Clinton did and like Gore should have done better. Mary Landrieu demonstrated that in her campaign that there is no playing nice with the Repukes. She attacked Bush's policies and it worked well instead of being gentle on a "then" popular president.
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-03 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
5. I Wish Dean WERE More of a McGovern in This Sense
but it's practical of him not to be a universal pacifist.
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meegbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-03 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
6. Didn't we just finish discussing this?
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-03 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. that thread is different from this one
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-03 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
8. Don't care if he is a McGovern
McGovern would have made a great president. I'd still vote for him.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-03 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. in a primary?
over electable candidates like Muskie?

Nixon/Segretti got there dream candidate in 72, hopefully the dem primary electorate will not fall into the same trap by giving Bush/Rove there dream candidate in Dean
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-03 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
10. Duplicate
See http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=808531

This is a rejoinder to an already-underway discussion. I'm locking this thread. Interested DUers are welcome to continue discussing this in the referenced thread.

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation,
TahitiNut - DU moderator
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