Decided to go Dean

After reading the transcripts of his interview with Matthews last night, I am completely on Dean's side. Wow.

I love his comments on corporations and race. Think it's a winning formula, and it inspires hope.

i.e.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor Dean, do you believe that Republicans use race to divide whites and blacks...
DEAN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... as a campaign tactic?
DEAN: I do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how do we overcome that as a nation?
DEAN: We talk very directly to both white working-class people and African-Americans about their common interests, which are jobs, education and health care.
We have got to stop having the campaigns run in this country based on abortion, guns, God and gays, and start talking about education, jobs and health care.

I thought the interview was fantastic as well, but of course I'm biased and drink lots of kool-aid :P

Pretty amazing, isn't he? :bounce:

that same segment is the only one my Repub husband listened to, and it really pissed him off. Didn't like the generalization that "Republicans use race to divide..." LOL.

Anyone outraged by a criticism of Republicans in general isn't going to be voting for anyone except Bush, so pleasing him isn't relevant.

Just kidding.

He isn't going to vote for Bush, he hates Bush. I think this was just a knee-jerk response.

He is absolutely correct and he frames it just right.

Best of luck. :toast:

We will show you the secret hand shake. lol Welcome, you made a great choice.

I see Dean as a good VP candidate for Clinton! I feel if Clinton does not throw her hat into the election, we can toss our beloved America good-bye. Four more years of the "Resident Evil" would make the actions of Freddy Kruger look like Dorthy from the Wizard of Oz.
Then again Clark would be a powerful element to the Clinton ticket also.

In fact the only people I see who claim she is running are dittohead and repukes who want her to run because she'll lose.

Welcome! Now click here:

http://dean2004.meetup.com/

Dean is the first candidate I've been excited about since...

Let me get back to you on that.

There really is none comparable, is there?

nt

1972, for me.

Wise and happy decision, dkamin!

My republican hubby walked out of the room. He refuses to listen to any of the debates anyway. He is convinced that little man bushie will be re-elected...(I mean bushie will steal the elections again).

Republicans I hear, base little man bushie's winning 2004 on how much money he collects.

:hi:

:toast:

We will take our country back! Its wonderfull to have your support!

Despite all the naysayers here picking every sentance he utters apart when you actually get a chance to listen to the man talk you realize that he has the heart and the message to send shrub packing. Some of his speeches have put a lump in my throat dreaming of what america can be if we get this man into office.

Hope you like kool-aide!

But now I have grave doubts. He wants to take a basic national civil right (the Second Amendment) and allow it to be restricted at the state level. He says words to the effect of (I'm paraphrasing) "let the states or cities that want more gun control have it, and the more rural areas have less gun control". The problem with this approach (and it doesn't matter where you stand on gun control) is that once you decide that any of the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights have no meaning or protection on a federal level, one is then free to decide that "well, they don't need quite so much free speech in Delaware" or "unreasonable searches are OK in Newark", etc. This is a very slippery and dangerous slope, and why I cannot vote for Dean. Sorry.

I understand what you are saying but I look at it from the oposite direction. If you dont take action on a federal level then anything the states decide on thier own are open to chalenge on the federal level no?
By avoiding making changes federally are you not inherently protecting your 2 nd amendment rights?

It is an interesting perspective though and something I hadnt thought about.

Just curious who has a platform on guns that you feel more comfortable with? Of all of the candidates his seems to be the least restrictive when it comes to your 2nd amendment rights. Who did you find that you felt protects that right better?

or it would be a violation of the consitution on state or federal levels. Read the 2nd amendment and pay attention to the "well regulated" part.

Allowing states to add additional gun control if they need it is nothing new. All states can pass additional regulation on the sale, use, and transport of guns inside the state. All Dean is saying is that we have enough federal gun control, and if states wnat more, they need to do it on a state level rather than inflicting other states with restrictions which might not have the same problems.

and let the states ENHANCE gun legislation as desired from there - but he never said anything about TAKING AWAY the basic right.

with Braun and Kucinich in the background. Just had to say that after seeing it about 20 times.

I made it after seeing just the first picture of them pointing at eachother posted about 100 times trying to spin it as they hate eachother. Since I made it the postings of the original has all but dissapeared so I guess it had the desired effect.

You CUR! How dare you make a choice that I don't agree with????

What is DU coming to????

Just don't start spitting on the other candidates, okay?

Well, except maybe Joe.

And, so is your endorsement! :-)

Welcome aboard!

:toast:

He is absoloutly the man.

?

when dean made this point (the confederate flag debacle), edwards argued the most against it- he could have used his unique perspective as a southerner to second that notion, but he chose to play politics and attack dean (to absolutely NO avail), acting completely naive to the republican-fueled racial politics of which dean was speaking...great pic of bush the cheerleader though-lol!!

Edwards by far an away has the best message on race.

And he was right about the confederate flag issue.

I was arguing in another thread about how you know he and Sharpton are right about this issue: if he were wrong, the media wouldn't have to lie about what the debate was about.

You also need to reaquaint yourself with a few moments from the debates.

There's the moment when Edwards explained about how Robbins, SC may be filled with immigrants, but they all go there for the same reason his father went there, and he's fighting for them to have the same opportunities he's had.

You also need to listen to the debate where Sharpton tells Dean and Kerry that Edwards should be applauded for his biography because it says to kids in the ghetto that they should look beyond the limited horizons they see around them and strive for a better life, and with hard work they can succeed.

Are we to sell out gays and blacks and everyone who isn't Xtian?

The only way those stop being issues is if we run up the white flag on all of them and let the Republicans outlaw abortion, declare the US a Christian nation, and do what they please to blacks and gays.

Is Dean proposing to do that?

It would be morally indefensible and we'd still lose, because
the constituancies that we betrayed would sit out the 2004 election, or worse.

Besides, he can't. He already signed civil unions into law in Vt. (Good for him!).

and it is still bullshit.

What Dean is simply saying is that we need to focus on the goals we share and work together rather than focus on the issues that divide us.

How do you get the idea that means running up the white flag on those other issues? Dean is pro-choice... he's not going to stop being pro-choice because he focuses on education. Dean is pro-affirmative action, he's not going to stop being pro-afirmative action because he focuses on healthcare.

What Dean is saying is that we need to stop dwelling on all the things that divide us and focus more on all the goals we share. He is not saying we should give up on any issue where there is disagreement, just that we should focus on our shared goals instead of only campaigning on the divisive issues.

Let's take our country and party back!

Glad to have you on board.

We've established that you're not a Dean fan, Laurin. I don't think the man's the second coming, but would you care to elaborate on the Jim Jones metaphor?

I don't expect you to be shy. I won't be either. :)

is they want people who do not agree with their candidate selection to die.

There is a visceral hatred for anybody who doesn't agree with them.


And isn't it odd how so many of the folks who feel this way have gravitated toward the big military father figure warrior with a history of killing people who didn't agree with him.

that this doesn't impress me much. I have my questions about Clark, and ZW and I have had our political quarrels, but I don't see the suggestion that anyone die. Be calm.

They mean that we Dean supporters are mindless, zombielike cult members, a la the denizens of Jonestown.

<sarcasm>After all this is the only rational explanation for our support, not that we agree with him or like his positions or anything like that.</sarcasm>

We have been brainwashed and hoodwinked! We suck! Etcetera!

That fuels my satirical jabs like the grape Kool-Aid pic.

I don't hate Dean, I don't wish death on anyone, and if you can't handle a jab or two about your candidate, then perhaps democracy isn't for you. :-)

Incidentally, how dull and unimaginative is your way of thinking? You obviously believe that anyone who doesn't like Dean must be a Clark (or in some cases Kerry) supporter. Sorry, they don't wash with me either. Did your head implode, or are you covering up your ears going "lalalalala!!! I can't hear you!"?

My Dad always said fanatics have no sense of humor, and until I see some Dean fanatics on here with a sense of humor, I am going to keep getting under the skin of the humorless souls who overrun this forum. ;-)

Anyone who thinks I literally think the Dean hardcores are like the Jim Jones cult need to relax. In fact, it is the stridency and severity with which they take jabs like these that just make me like doing it more and more. Never have I seen anyone so devoted to a candidate that they are ready to get a rope just because you express some displeasure with him.

I posted a list in a thread in P&C last week, which showed the characteristics of cult followers, and I was struck by some of the similarities, especially the part about intimidating and shouting down people who express even a MILD form of dissent against their leader. I tried the route of sweet reason, but it falls on deaf ears, so I might as well have some fun.

I have followed politics a long time, and even when I have seen people get charged up about a candidate, it has never approached the level of unwarranted devotion that the Dean crowd has mustered.

I am too much the cynic. I think we DO need a real, legally elected president, and I want Bush out bad. But whomever replaces him will be a human with clay feet, not a messiah. So I get weary of Dean being assigned superhuman qualities that NO ONE has, especially in politics. I just want a bit of perspective, and I will use satire to provide it.

It is a safe bet that I take myself the least seriously of anybody in here, outside of anyone who has put me on ignore. :-)

that I take myself the least seriously of anybody in here."

Oh now, don't sell yourself short.

Uly was reasonable and mature, and gets that kind of response in return. Others are less mature, reasonable, or intelligent, and they get the kind of answer they deserve. :-)

I am a smart guy, but I don't dare waste it in GD too much. ;-) Underestimate me at your convenience.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

There are differences to be had with ZW's political positions, same as any of us, and they can be had without discussion of posters being banned.

As for my differences with Dean, they come from the Left. Also, I don't like his chances against Chimpy, as of now. I am open to change in that forecast after the primaries are over.

My differences with Dean are less pronounced than with a very strident and evangelical cabal for him here in GD. They give the good Dean supporters a bad name.

And I am one of the good anti-Dean people (well, usually). I give him credit when it is due - defending him against the phony draft dodging charges, praising his AIDS fighting agenda, and maybe a bone here or there. He is not evil or all bad. I never said he was, but you'd never know it by the drama queens and kings who attack me, lol.

But this crazy idea that I hate - sorry, I am a good liberal there. I hate no one on here, or their candidates. (Lieberman comes close, but I must avoid hypocrisy.)

ain't it ;->

dean is one hellu'va salesmen ain't he :bounce:

peace

It took me some months to decide (I'm a precinct chair, so who I tell my peeps I'm for is pretty important to me). I looked at all the candidates and finally picked Dean. That was back at the end of July. I've never ONCE regretted my decision. I feel really good about working to get Howard Dean into the White House.

Now, you'll have to put Howard Dean's new book on your holiday wish list: "Winning Back America". I hear it's pretty good. :)

Hint: it involves transporting olives, but hands must never be used... ;-)

I am glad to see people find candidates they can get behind and that they feel proud to support.

But, just don't throw ALL of your support to Dean. Keep an open mind, because we don't really know who will get the nomination yet.

As long as you can promise me that you will support whichever of the candidates gets the nomination, then I am happy.

And I wanted him out before I ever even heard of Howard Dean. I would vote for an inanimate carbon rod if it got the democratic nomination against President Fuckface. I can't speak for all of us, but every Dean supporter I have ever spoken to shares my enthusiasm for getting rid of Bush.

Believe me, you have NOTHING to worry about on that score.

Objection, your honor. The host is asking leading questions that serve only to set up statements already released by the guest's campaign.

Seriously, look at the questions being asked.

yep, wouldn't be surprised to hear this from you, a Kerry supporter....

Ignore the babbling bungholes of bitchiness (Agnew impression) around here. Their volume will go up, as their candidate goes down.

Hmmm...

cackling cockroaches of crabbiness
drooling doofus's of dullardness

damn, the vowels are tuff, LOL!!!

:evilgrin:

;-)