An observation about Dean.

I have an apolitical friend who leans Republican. Almost everything she knows politically she sees on the tube, not Fox, but all of them. She is thinking twice about *, not hard, but she is moving in the correct direction.

Anyway, I had given my assessment of the Democratic frontrunners and the next day she said she saw Dean on the tube the night before. She said she agreed with everything he said, but that she didn’t like him. Don’t flame me about trying to convert people who vote this way, converting them is how we are going to win.

Her problem was that he seems so angry (I know he ought to be angry). But do any Dean supporters (or others) think that the anger that has carried Dean so far with the base, will become a liability if he doesn’t tone it down to get broader support?

but at rallies, and fundraisers, he doesn't do the "anger" bit---there's a softer side to him.

I dont see how hes angry. Clark was angry at the last debate.. that was obvious but I dont remember dean getting angry like that. The RNC keeps trying to portray dean as angry along with the rest of the presidential candidates, and I think the wonderful media is just being a mouthpeice.

but I agree that the media plays that hard. She doesn’t follow news closely to even know the specifics of the propaganda about the primary candidates yet. She deliberately watched an interview with Dean after I told her his name and that he was a front runner. When she started explaining her impression of what she had seen she first even verified that he was one of the likely nominees that I had mentioned.

There is a grain of truth about the anger perception, IMO he should work on it if he is the Party’s candidate. I'm glad that he doesn't come across that way all the time, because it means it will be possible for him to soften later if he needs to.

once he gets the nomination.

Candidates *always* (the smart ones, anyway) secure their base before going after the general pop. He's taking the right tack.

Almost everything she knows politically she sees on the tube, not Fox, but all of them

Or Dean will do it for you. But anger is a good thing, and Dean is going to light the fire of this nation's anger and fan it until it burns high! An entire nation of raging, frothing Americans who are as mad as hell because ... because ... because ... Of the war in Iraq! Oh wait, the vast majority of Americans supported it, and a majority still think it was a good idea. Because of the economy! Oh wait, it's improving. Because Dean said so! That's it! Tell your friend she should be angry because Dean said so!

nt

perceived to be needlessly angry and a 'suit?' (Whatever that means). Guess what? Most Americans will take 'The suit.'

It's hard to imagine the public actually voting to oust an incumbent President that is "tremendously admired" by his opponent.

That majority are forming their opinions based on the wrong information. Hence you can disregard anything they say.

Anyway, don't the latest polls show majority disapproval for Iraq? :shrug:

That majority are forming their opinions based on the wrong information. Hence you can disregard anything they say.

Does that also mean I get to disregard their vote, since it will be made on the basis of that same wrong information?

The latest poll I saw had a slim majority, something like 51%, supporting the war, some undecideds, and the rest against. I doubt things have changed too much since then, but if they have, it isn't likely to be enough to make anger the in thing among most folks. Until Dean commands it, that is.

this sounds like a big double standard to me, and I'm sick of it (not directed at you personally.) The media does not play fair (no shock there, I know.) First Dean was horrible because he wouldn't apologize. Our faux President NEVER apologizes and NEVER admits he's wrong (and expecting the President to admit he is wrong or apologize is considered "unpatriotic"). Now Dean has made some documents secret, and he's HORRIBLE again! Our faux President has destroyed or classified entire libraries-worth of documents and there's not even a peep from the media.

During the 2000 pres. race, the talking whores were constantly nitpicking about one demeanor or another which they erroneously claimed he presented in debates. That experience was the first time I truly understood how rightwing biased our media is.

The corporate spinmeisters will try it again on whomever gets the nomination, and he/she better be prepared to IGNORE that b.s.

(McCain) and Dean is a "street fighter" and will fight back. He's not going to roll over for *. No way.

Anger is an asset in the primaries, because Democrats are furious.

How's the saying go? "If you're not outraged you're not paying attention." He may have to act a little less outraged for the people who aren't paying attention.

If it's just an act, has he been manipulating the gullible all this time? And wouldn't that be pandering? And if his anger now is genuine, but he 'tones it down,' would that be pandering? I thought Dean doesn't pander, and that he's a straight shooter? Oh what a tangled web!

What a campaign.

Even Democrats.

we should modify our outrage to conform to Fox dictates of how we should conduct ourselves? The reason that people respond so much to Dean is because he does resonate with the concerns of those who are paying attention. I am sorry if your friend is behind the curve, she willl catch up when it reaches critical mass.

Gore was a "liar", Dean is "angry". They'll never say that asshole in the WH is a crook and liar.

I think people who say that are actively seeking a reson not to like him, or they can't articulate his impression on them any better.

" if you are not angry, then you are not paying attention."

He is a problem solver who gets impatient with idiocy and greed masquerading as competence and compassion. A practiced politician usually imitates real passion about an issue, Howard has a passion that comes from the heart.

edited to refine vocabulary.

That's the way we are here. It's not angry so much as direct and blunt.

;)

Seriously, I'm just kidding

LOL. That is the truth. He is very yankee - even if he is a flatlander, his character is naturally very Yankee. LOL.

And people here hate to be direct, it isn't an easy adjustment for someone from the north.

I can say the yankee thing really is there.

In California, you go to a restaurant and your waiter comes up and says cheerily, "Hi, my name's Steve and I'll be your server for today, so if you need anything, just ask for Steve!"

In Mass., more often or not, they look at you and say: "Whaddya want?" As if you're interrupting them from whatever else it was they were doing.

And yes they do drive like "Massholes." So do I now, after 10 years here. Whenever I go back to California, I'm a menace.

West coast drivers suck :evilgrin:

Have NO problem with it.

about the state of America, then you are asleep. I think what the Repubs hate about Dean is that he has stolen the no-nonsense page right out of George W's '00 campaign strategy and is using it to greater effect - only without corporate ownership.

I've noticed this to be an aggrivating facet of the current political matrix; if conservative GOPers are angry, it's justifiable and virtuous. If liberal democrats get angry, they are 'delusional'.

Follow up question: Can you ask your friend why Liberal Democrats have to be twice as handsome, twice as correct, twice as virtuous, (half as angry) and three times more moral than a given conservative republican for the same office?

so far Dean is leading in most state polls in key states. In NH and Iowa two states where people have been watching closely he has the highest positive ratings of any candidate--69% in NH and over 70% in Iowa among Dems and Independents.

In the key state of Florida a new poll out today shows that Dean (and Clark) is the strongest vs. Bush in that state at this time losing by only 49-41 (Clark is down 48-40, same 8-point difference).

I'm not worried about the media "anger factor" we have a right to be angry but Dean also has a positive message. The more people get to know him (at least in states where people have been paying attention) the more they seem to like him.

bit works well to introduce them. He's not "angry " as much as "opposed " to * and the corporate media is aghast at the prospect of anyone calling * on this ridiculous behavior.

Deans message if anyone bothers to listen to him( vs a story about him) is a message of hope and empowerment of the individual, of change of the actual system . The more your friend learns , the more convinced they will be.

Have your friend go to a meetup. Maybe you should too :)

Ask her if she had heard anything about Dean before she actually saw him. I'd be willing to bet that she heard the repeated suggestion that Dean is "angry". And I would also ask her if any of the issues that he brought up that she agreed with made *her* angry.

I'm glad "she agreed with everything he said". Too bad she didn't like him. Looks like a teachable moment right there.

Tell her to watch him in a town hall or one on one. He comes off better that way. If she still doesn't like him tell her she doesn't have to invite him to her barbecue. Ask her if she's ever thought about what's important in a candidate. This ain't The Bachelor.

If all else fails ask if she agrees with Clark or Edwards or Kerry. I agree with a lot of what they say. May she'll find them more likeable than the Chimp.

anger at the way things are and the courage to change them." -- St. Augustine

That's how I see Howard Dean and his Campaign, Dean for America.

Anger is healthy when it is directed against injustice and wrongdoing, which are the hallmarks of the Bush Admin.

Dean isn't as angry as he looks and Bush isn't as nice as he looks. I'm still puzzled that Bush can call a reporter a "major league ass hole" while campaigning and yet it's Dean that the media tags as angry. :eyes: I'm starting to think the media is masochistic...perhaps if Kucinich starts to insult them, he'll start getting his deserved coverage???

Why people vote on personality is beyond me...unless your friend is the next Bachlorette and Dean is competing for a stupid rose, then she needs to focus on the issues!

Besides, (hypothetically speaking) if Dean wins the nomination, then inevitably he'll be invited to do an Oprah puff piece and he'll talk the whole hour without looking "angry". Make her watch it.

who could be angrier than Coulter, Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly, etc.?
They are all angry, all the time. Why isn't all that right wing anger a problem?

This is the same old "Al Gore is a liar" spin - the "liberal media" spin - the "Christians are persecuted" spin

There are other candidates for your friend to choose from.

Including 4 more years of a right wing angry asshole.