Hate to say it, but I think it's time the Iowa and N.H. Candidates...

To maybe start running T.V. ads, questioning Dean's Middle Class Tax Policies. It gets it out in the air to the Democratic Voters early and possibly saves the party from a trian wreck in the national election. It may be Kerry's only hope of holding firm in N.H., and it might force Dean to be more specific on the issue. It maybe the voters don't really care, like alot of Dean supporters have pointed out...there was never really a gift from Bush to the middle class anyway. But at least the voters won't be jumping the fence like a bunch uninformed sheep off to the slaughter house.

You're right. Kerry has raised the issue in debates, but he should emphasize Dean's tax-policy in ads, too.

So should the other candidates.

From Clark to Edwards to Kucinich, others don't want to repeal all of the tax-cuts passed under Bush.

The corporate media won't back up ANY fact that Dean is hit with any follow up scrutiny that shows he's either lying, inconsistent or wrong. They haven't done it on anything yet.

They are only starting to go after him now for peripheral CHARACTER matters like his sealed records because it helps BUSH, not the other Dems.

Rove is satisfied Dean is the nominee so he won't have to worry about the "secrecy card" or the "AWOL card" or the "greater national security record card" being played against them.

A Dean nomination assures that Dem pundits and spokespeople will be too busy DEFENDING Dean to attack Bush in any meaningful way that will cut through the RNC and media attack on all the Dean lies and inconsistencies so blandly overlooked by his supporters now.

and everyone will believe him.

then when he gets the nod he'll change his mind.

Dean can't be trusted on anything...he's flip-flopped on a number of issues.

And he supported the Biden amendment to attack Iraq. He's not even anti-war the thing that propelled him into the front.

Dean is a hack...I won't be voting for him under any circumstances. Maybe one day Democrats will wake up and smell the hypocrisy.

He came to NH blabbering about more gun control and THAT is why he's dropping fast in the polls. Guns are HUGE in NH and Kerry may as well pack it in there because he's not even going to break the top 3 thanks to making such a sloppy mistake.

We are facing an economic crisis.....the economy has been botched by the repukes. We are facing the baby boomers retiring. SS and medicare are at risk. Private pension funds are going under.

Huge tax cuts for the wealthy....that matters to them because it is tens or hundreds of thousands a year.

The paltry sum given to the middle class is not an issue. People would rather have jobs, SS, a working economy and peace that some paltry tax cuts.

I know I would. I don't need Kerry telling me how this can all be fixed just by raising taxes on the wealthy. I think its pandering.

and as soon as they figure it out...sit back and watch the Dean poll numbers fall like snow in Vermont.

were have I heard that before...

:eyes:

The reason it isn't an issue...conspiracy theories aside....is that most middle class voters know they didnt get a tax cut...

Perhaps the problem may be that some of the Dem candidates like to think of themsleves as middle class....or understand the middle class, while at the same time they earn incomes that put them in the high income brackets....

Of course they dont undertsand that state budgets have exploded...that property taxes have gone up, that college tuition has gone up, that funding for public schools has been cut, the funding for the people who can least afford to lose out in this economy are hurting bad!

But hey...thanks Senate Dems for including that extra child credit in their...sure makes me feel so much better about the $400 billion that you allowed to be given away to the 1% of Americans that don't need it....thanks for nothing....

Does that answer your question...

and why complain about tax cuts for the wealthy when it's our position to raise there's, Edwards wanting to raise it on passive and unearned income more than Dean

Heres how a paltry sum can also be a ton of money

Millions of middle class folks * paltry sum per person = a LOT of revenue that could be better spent to help the middle class.



For exmaple, one school for 2 million dollars is better to a community than $100 bucks for each of the 20,000 people in the community for vouchers.

the point is, what's a paltry sum for an individual is a ton of money for health care, education, for an entire community.

The federal government doesn't pay for schools, localities do.

Whether it's 300, or 3000, which alot of people did get, it's still an imbicilic statement that essentially voters would prefur to have there money redistributed than not.

If "The federal government doesn't pay for schools, localities do."

I feel that you would prefer the repug's "borrow and spend" approach.

at wealth and income distribution in US you might reconsider.

ragging on another candidate - these people should run ads about themselves.

You can't imagine how sick people are of the Dean rag. I am speaking of uncommitted Democrats. I heard some at the debate in Concord a while back.

We could learn from Republicans. They don't EVER trash each other publicly - even when they hate each other's guts.

This immature attack stuff isn't giving any one of these candidates any traction. It just makes them look clueless and jealous.

And Karlton is right. Kerry is done in NH, a suicide. He is responsible for the death of his campaign here.

He has been the first candidate to go negative on his opponents in every way. At rallies, at debates, online, and in commercials

he got famous in this race for having to apologize to everybody in advance, another joke that only he and his flock found funny

That's why that libertarian group can run ads attacking Dean over the issue: they know Democrats don't really care, so it has no impact on Dean vis a vis other Dems. But a Democrat against Republicans -- then it comes into play.

So to make people care, you have a complex argument: raising taxes is bad, not because it's bad policy, but because it's bad politics. That's too much to squeeze into a 30 second ad. Labeling someone a big spender, though, can be done in a flash.

Howard Dean says that he would repeal the entire Bush Tax package...period the whole thing has to go. This is Parmount to raising taxes on middle class America. Not only is it unfair to working families, but Howard Dean by following this policy has no way of defeating George W. Bush in 2004 and taking him to task for his outrageous four year tax breaks to the wealthiest one percent of the population.

You're cramming two messages into one ad. That isn't good.

The main message, that raising taxes is bad politics, is complex. People, having their re-runs of Fantasy Island or whatever being interrupted by the commercial, aren't going to internalize the message very well, because the message isn't gripping enough.

These short ads lend themselves to 'This candidate is warm and fuzzy,' stuff, or 'that candidate is soft on terra' stuff, partially because those messages capitalize on existing attitudes. Liberals are soft on defence (everyone knows this is true), Howard Dean is a liberal, Howard Dean is soft on defence. That's the mode the successful short ads follow. Liberals want to raise your taxes (everyone knows this is true), Howard Dean is a liberal, Howard Dean wants to raise your taxes. These messages take an existing attitude, one that is in the zeitgeist, and pin it on the candidate. But half the work is already done.

Raising taxes is a loser play (where's the proof?), Howard Dean wants to raise taxes, Howard Dean is a loser. I have no problem with the argument, and make it and believe in it myself. But the main premise is not well-established: there's no hook waiting to ease the message in. So you have to work harder: first, prove that raising taxes is a loser move, then prove Dean wants to raise taxes. Too damn much head work, and people want to get back to Tattoo and Ricardo on Survivor Island or whatever.

job stimulous.

The Democrats fought for the tax cut for the middle class which sweetened the deal for many of them.

The bushco is hammering that the economy is improving because of the tax policy, when actually there has been some minor stimulous but only from the money, however small individually, collectively that moved into consumer spending.

It is not only bad politics, it is bad policy. Further more, if you are moving to a more progressive tax policy, then why in the fuck would you add money to the middle. Remember that lower the 15% tax rate as well.

The rightwing is chosing our candidate. Are we happy about that yet?

The Democrats do care about having the middle class tax cut rolled back. That is the only thing that they got and it is the only actual stimulous that went into the economy.

It's never talked about in public venues. It's the dirty little secret that will hit like a bomb......after Dean has the nomination. Many are jumping on the Dean bandwagon without even knowing what he really stands for. It's amazing....and I though that Democrats were really, really smart. But many are jumping on due to the name recognition that the media whores have handed to Howard Dean. And don't let me get started on Mr. Zogby and his Push polls.....talking about buying an election!

Rove is rubbing his hands together....and cracking up laughing.....

The tax increase is a DOA for whatever candidate offers it! It's like a human sacrifice!

I speak Italian...does that count for anything????

That counts, of course. Wish these Democrats would "Capiche"!

It'll make what he did to McCain seem like childs play.

Dean will change his tax proposal once he gets the nomination. Now I don't know what that was all about?????

as Dean does one more really matter?

buddies up with the energy companies, changes policy positions and they claim he's a pragmatist, a genius, and a ...HAHAHAH.... straight talker?

And the action shot:

I hate that photo of Dean. Every time I see that, the first image that pops into my head is Hitler.

A picture tells a thousand words. And a strategically captured screenshot says a thousand words about the person who shares it.

Too bad none of the others show enough emotion to capture a similar image. Too busy looking stupid or confused as to how they're so far behind in the polls.

They use pictures because THEY don't have words.

Here's one of a man dressed up as a clown and a clown dressed up as a man:

this bildge. Post a question on Dean. PM me when you do. I'll give you an answer. Go ahead.

but they never do it. SO much easier to lie.

On our way to LOSERDOM if we nominate tax hiker with no foreign policy experience after 9/11.

I belong to the union SEIU. They went ahead and backed Dean right out of the gate almost before debates began. I asked them why they did that IN MY NAME without consulting we dues payers?! They won't respond so I'm turning in my "badge". I told them they were acting like the AARP!! :mad:
I don't think Dean is "our guy"...but we'll see.
Sugarbleus...

there have been about five debates so far....

There were even different people in them....remember Bob Graham....they replaced him with Wesley Clark..thought he'd appeal to a younger demographic...

Perhaps others in your party were paying attention....

Don your prettiest asbestos bath robe and join in the fun!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

I can't see that reasoning to be valid under any circumstances. There's just no need for that course of action to occur at this crossroads. Really, is this going to progress anything or will it just wither to the ground like some much else.

The republicans are doing it, why not the democrats, too? It'll be neat to see the republicans and democrats finally working together.

Now all we need is an opposition party

Neocons and so called democrats will put their differences aside to take on a common enemy. Howard Dean.

instead of "Dean's Tax Policies."

The simple fact of the matter is that Chimp's tax cuts overwhelmingly favored the top 5% of American taxpayers. Just because a bone was thrown to the middle class in order to do a classic bait-and-switch doesn't make Chimp's tax policies anything other than one of the greatest swindles and transferences of wealth in the history of our Union.


De facto, if you are against Dean's stance on repealing the entire tax cut you are FOR "Chimp's Middle Class<sic> Tax Policies."


Instead of running an ad against Dean, we should run an add illuminating how 60% of Chimp's tax cuts went to 5% of the population. That fact doesn't seem to bother you or the others who have posted above. I guess we have different ideas of what is fair to the middle class. Maybe you earn over $350,000 a year....:shrug:

I suppose. Problem is, all the other guys will be out of money by the time the GE rolls around. After blowing their wads lying about Dean, they'll have nothing left with which to go after Bush.