Should the Draft, and Drinking, age be lowered to 16?

Done in the spirit of the voting age threads.

I would say yes to all three.

One comment on the alcohol issue. Having spent much time in Poland where there is no real minimum, but AFAIK 16 was the norm, I can say that teens < 18 were rarely in the bars that I frequented (And I went to a lot of clubs and college bars. It was a university town.). I also remember reading that their rates of teen alcohol abuse (Alcoholism, binge dring etc.) were lower than in the US, same with other countries such as France.

...past 30? Maybe 40?

Keeping it to twice that is not.

and I'm beginning to question driving at 16 as well

While I agree that we'd have less problems with alcohol abuse if there had NEVER been age restricitions placed, as in Europe, that one is out of the barn, already....

The problem is that all of us recall how our peers were (and perhaps ourselves) at that age and are thus horrified at the thought of lowering the age for anything that takes clear, consistent, mature thought to avoid serious, perhaps life-threatening repercussions.

Many states are raising driving ages, or at least putting night-time restrictions on younger drivers. Given the lack of driver's education and more, faster, aggressive drivers on the road, I think that is a good idea, too. As with all of life, the bad apples tend to bring down restrictions for everyone.

give them voting rights and also lower the age of emancipation.

on edit:
No way.

...other two poll issues?

1.
The draft of children was tried in the Crusades. It was a horrible slaughter.

2.
I'd rather have my children legally smoke marijuana in a safe, controled environment, than lower the drinking age to the advantage of no one but the liquor manufacturers.

No one of any age should be drafted unless the nation is in absolute peril. Chasing oil in the Middle East does not qualify. If they wish to volunteer, I would expect them to be held to the same mental and physical standards as the other volunteers -- that said, we've all heard the stories of young teen-age boys who lied to fight in World War II. If the cause is important, then young people will want to participate.

As far as drinking, I think if we're honest with ourselves, we will acknowledge that most of us started drinking earlier than age 16. I don't like the way the law is being unevenly applied. I have heard rumors that teens in my state can lose their license if they are caught drinking and driving with a blood alcohol level of 0.04. I mean what is that? You're DWI because you used mouthwash? I voted to keep the drinking age as it is in the poll but I don't like the hypocrisy and the unfairness of unequal laws.

Yes, teens cause a disproportionate number of accidents. Any time you learn a new skill, you are not as good at it as you will be after years of experience. We can keep raising the driving limit and one day it will be the 25 year olds who are accused of causing all the accidents! I started driving at 15 and haven't killed anyone yet. As long as our society is built around the automotive, we are going to have to err in favor of allowing people to drive so they can get to work, have a social life, etc. Older people know how limiting it is when they can no longer drive; well, teens feel those limits just as keenly, if not more so, especially since they are often more active and their energy is telling them they're missing out on life when they're stuck at home.

we seriously increase the penalties for drunk driving first. Of course, we should do that anyway.

I agree with you-

Wenesday through Saturday, I am in favor of state run boarding schools until the age of 32, and spay/neuter clinics.

On Sundays, I just try to be witty and cute.

:hi:

It hasn't been that long since I got up!

Admit it, my post was hilarious-

Lower the drinking age to 16, but abolish Selective Service entirely.

Most European countries either have a 16 drinking age or no drinking age to speak of, and drinking there is done in a lot more responsible manner than in the U.S.

I think 18 year olds should be able to drink, buy handguns, and all the other things that becoming 21 now allows.

That being said I definately dont think that 16 year olds should be considered adults, however I do think the age of consent (for sex) should be lowered to about 15 or 16. I think its stupid that people can be labeled sexual offenders for having consensual sex with a 15 or 16 year old.

If however a foreign army ever did manage to invade the US I dont think people would have many problems with arming 16 year olds to fight them, then again they probably wouldnt have any problems with them drinking either.

age of consent, emancipation without cause, etc. All that people are doing is giving credence to the conservatives' views that children should be treated as adults by our criminal justice system. They should not- they are by and large still children who have not fully developed their logical thought capabilities, and most have no concept of severe consequences for their actions. The idea that a 16 year old shoul dbe subject to life imprisonment is sickening to me.

The 2 years between 16 and 18 are grand for beginning to give kids more responsibilities (such as driving, part-time jobs, etc.). However, a 16 year old is still a child, and should be able to remain one and *enjoy* his/her last years with little responsibility. I'm sorry to say this, because I know that we have some very fine young DUers who post here regularly, and they are a credit to their age group.


However, I am unsure on the drinking age question. I would prefer us to be more like most European countries on this, so that instead of artificial barriers such as a "drinking age" we actually educate people on drinking and teach them how to do so responsibly. I think that is something for parents to decide rather than the gov't.

It is definately out of whack with the rest of the world.

In most parts of the world by the time you are 15 or 16 you are an Adult. You definately are biologically, as for emotionally and physchologically you would definately be more so than in our system.

Yeah I suppose a good part of the rest of the world is pretty bad off, but I think they have some things right.

Or more precisely, people who were 15 when they committed their crime and/or were convicted of a crime. We, along with Libya and Iraq I think, have *that* honor. I'd say that childhood ends far too early in America, at least in our criminal justice system.


Until we fundamentally change some things in our society, education first among them, we will not be able to compare our 16 year olds with those of the rest of the world.

Neither teens nor the elderly.

I'm just saying that the erosion of childhood has been used by conservatives as a way to achieve that end.

BTW, I don't even think a 16 year old should ever face a life sentence, since I don't think their faculties are sufficiently developed to understadn either the charges against them or the penatly assessed.

By making it legal government would have allowed parents to influence but still not decide to drink. Now they do not. Is that what you're saying?

Ultimately though the teen would have to make up theit own mind regardless of government sanction or parental influence.

No way! :evilgrin:

My parents allowed me to drink (watered down) mixed drinks when I was 13 or so. The gov't should not have the ability to prevent that, though many state laws try to.

Prior to the age of consent/emancipation which varies from state to state, I think the parents should have the ability to decide whether their child is *allowed* to drink or not. (Yes, I recognize that kids drink anyway) Most state laws now pertain to consumption, possession and/or sale of alcohol. While the gov't may have a limited interest in regulating to whom alcohol is sold, as far as I'm concerned they have no business in saying whether I could allow my 19 year old to drink. JMHO.

It's bad enough to draft 18 year olds.

And the cultural attitude towards drinking in Europe vs America are different, so I don't think we should lower the drinking age just because they start younger over there.

international laws against child soldiers (I want to say UN charter, or maybe universal declaration of human rights) prevent sixteen year olds from being drafted.

-C

I should have made the age addressed 17...Drat.

Actually, I just looked this up, it's a mixed bag...http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/crp/int-law.htm

Honestly though I believe that all rights as an adult citizen should be given to 18 year olds, period.

Alcohol is the anomoly in that I think that our laws are counter productive at 21. Should the purchase of it be legal at 18? Of course. Should consumption be treated the same? Probably not.

I figured someone would've pointed it out, but hey. :-)

-C

I think the worst time for boozing is when a person just starts to drink, you can really mess up your life and spend too much on booze. The lower that age, the more time you have to fix your life later.

16 year olds have their lives to live, and they're too young to fight in a war, let alone experience death at such a young age. It could mess them up for life. They are also too young to drink, even thought when I was 16, I drank, but I still think that's wrong. IMO, 16 year olds are still kids.

:hi:

High school is a place where people are treated like children. Graduating high school is sort of a right of passage into adulthood in modern American society. Yes, not all teenagers graduate high school and many turn 18 before graduating, but I don't think it is coincidence that high school ends and adulthood legally begin around the same time.

They still can't but alcohol.

But wait...Full Adulthood is not fully conveyed to any American I suppose. Yep..That pot thing comes to mind.

That's 3 years older than 13....hmmm...

Let them finish their high school education before yarding them off to the military, at least. Getting an education is still important.
No on drinking too - partly for the same reason.

There should not be a draft in the first place, but if there is I think that it is better to let kids live for at least 2 years longer than 16 before they get shot. I don't think the military would want a bunch of 16 year olds anyway...... So that part seems rather ridiculous to me.

The drinking age should be either lowered very much or eliminated entirely. A sensible European type policy is in order.

But America is markedly different from Europe on the issue of driving. I think it might be sensible to raise the driving age to 18, perhaps with a longer permit period from about 16 to 18 in between. But this would depend on how much lowering the drinking age affected drinking and driving. So that would depend.

*

consequences were documented, e.g., driving accidents. The stats were compelling enough to raise the age.