What would happen if a nuke or dirty bomb went off in this country?

How would the country respond?

...you would think we would have a plan for such an event (that everyone knows about) by now.

for the best analysis on such a scenario. In a nutshell, we'd lose our Constitution, and all that goes with it.

...about Franks favoring a military-style government after an attack.

Can you provide the link again, please?

but several people did. Here's a link anyway.

Gen. Tommy Franks: Terrorist WMD Attack Would Mean Military Rule in US
Gen. Franks Doubts Constitution Will Survive WMD Attack (11/21/03 - NewsMax.com)

Gen. Tommy Franks, the CENTCOM commander in charge of the Iraq invasion who retired in July, says that if terrorists attacked the US with biological, chemical, or nuclear weapons and there were heavy casualties, the Constitution would be discarded in favor of military rule. Franks made his comments in an extensive interview published in the Nov.-Dec. 2003 issue of Cigar Aficionado magazine.

Franks told the interviewer that if such an attack occured, "the Western world, the free world, loses what it cherishes most, and that is freedom and liberty we've seen for a couple of hundred years in this grand experiment that we call democracy."

http://www.subliminalnews.com/archives/000092.php

The original article was in Newsmax, but why go there if you don't have to?

What would be the procedure? Congress would have to act? The constitution would have to be amended?

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_mlaw.html

"...The President, however, is commander-in-chief of the military, and it has been argued that the President can take it upon himself to declare martial law. In these times, Congress may decide not to act, effectively accepting martial law by failing to stop it; Congress may agree to the declaration, putting the official stamp of approval on the declaration; or it can reject the President's imposition of martial law, which could set up a power struggle between the Congress and the Executive that only the Judiciary would be able to resolve.

In the United States, there is precedence for martial law. Several times in the course of our history, martial law of varying degrees has been declared. The most obvious and often-cited example was when President Lincoln declared martial law during the Civil War. This instance provides us with most of the rules for martial law that we would use today, should the need arise."

...which could set up a power struggle between the Congress and the Executive that only the Judiciary would be able to resolve.


Thank God we have the worlds finest Judiciary!

No doubt about it.

In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if we experience this sort of attack next 9/11.

people in this country would nuts, and it will be open season on brown people...yes even if the terrorists were not brown

hopefully local and state governments have emergency personnel to respond immediately because a lot of people would have severe radiation poisoning and burns

just look at all the nuts on free republic who say they would go around killing anyone who wasn't white in such an event.

Chemical weapons. They were picked up in Texas not long ago.

The White Supremecists want a race war, and this sort of attack would most definitely precipitate one.

they are NOT liking the interracial mixing that is going on, i.e., the letters to the nfl players with the racial slant.

resulting in the breakdown of civilization and destruction on a Beirut/Sarajevo scale.

OPEC would have to send in peace keeping troops and install a provisional government headed by Halliburton.

Pretty much no real difference.

I do know that

...we must never forget the power of the Clinton penis.

...we must never forget the power of the Clinton penis.

Absolutely!
;-)

But we all best hope that even the smallest crisis doesn't happen. Pre-9/11, I think we all would hurry to help one another as best we could, because that's just what happened.

But post-9/11, I imagine we'd all hunker down at home and some would keep guns at the ready. Of course martial law would be declared, so there wouldn't be much choice but to stay home or be shot by some National Guardsman.

And this is what the Bush administration has done to the country. Not the terrorists. Bush. Because we can't always control what happens to us, but we can control how we respond to it. And Bush has made us afraid, even of one another.
:-(

Would kill everyone in a 5 mile radius and flatten everything in a 2.5 mile radius. Everyone in a 10 mile radius would be dead in the initial blast or radiation. You could pretty much write New York City off the map for 20 years for the cleanup.

the size of your blast radius is a little large...

TheProdigal

Dozens of them have "dissapeared" from Russia. I think if there is risk of a terrorist nuclear detonation in the United States, it would come from one of these.

They have relatively low charges. Most are 1kt.

Here are some simulations of what a 1kt bomb can do in major cities.

http://www.af2k.com/starglider/casestudy/casestudy.asp

vastly overstated and the diagrams you give are overstated as well for a one kiloton device...the number represented in this link are found in literally dozens of other places on the net. While it would be horrific, the numbers the two of you have represented are not based in fact.

http://survival.anomalies.net/nukes.html

TheProdigal

A dirty bomb is pretty deniable. Most people don't walk around with geiger machines, and the cancer rate is so high in this country already that no one would necessarily notice a pattern for many decades. People might be told a small bomb had gone off if it was unavoidable that they be told but it would be denied that it contained any radioactive material, but otherwise it would be covered up for many decades.

SOP for nuclear events and accidents in this country.

A major undeniable nuclear event in this nation is a horse of a different color and would probably result in the financial collapse of the nation -- stock market, real estate market, people's savings in various instruments would become worthless. There would have to be either a New "New Deal" or else a totalitarian dictatorship to keep down people protesting for medical care, retirement, etc. since limited nuclear war and the threat of ongoing limited nuclear events makes it impossible for individuals to invest in the future. Even the rich, except for the Dick Cheney-like elite who can live in bomb shelters, could not plan for their futures under such circumstance. Those rich enough would likely emigrate elsewhere. Belize had to close their "passport for pay" program because so many people had purchased Belizean passports who had never lived there and only plan to move there in event of an emergency; many of those folks were not Americans, actually, but Chinese businessmen. Something to ponder.

and if it's going to happen, it will be mid 2004..just in time to stop the elections and declare martial law. It will probably depend a lot on whether or not the shrub is doing well in the polls. If he's not. Watch out.

Well it depends on where in this country the nuke hit. The US might go on rampage trying to kill all suspected terrorist.

"Bring em on!" for the second time.

Sad but true

He changed his pants.

During more than a decade, mushroom clouds often rose toward the sky. Winds routinely carried radioactive fallout to communities in Utah, Nevada and northern Arizona. Meanwhile, news media dutifully conveyed U.S. Atomic Energy Commission announcements to downwind residents: "There is no danger."
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0105-06.htm

He was filming the movie "The Conquerer" in the Utah desert in 1954
when alot of the tests were happening, and a large number of the film
crew, and John Wayne, contracted cancer years later.

Here's a new article that popped up in a search-
from the 11/30/03 article in the Salt Lake Tribune.

http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Nov/11302003/utah/115738.asp

Which is, run out and buy flags, because patriotism is now in fasion.
You think its bad being liberal now? Wait until the next terrorist attack, where we are blamed and Bush is once again just a victim.

Shit, we would have martial law so fucking fast. There would probably never be an election again.

And, I ask, who the fuck is going to stop the administration? The Republicans in Congress? The judicial system that he has crammed with supporters? The news media, who spends hours each day discussing how great Bush is???

by Bush. Congress abdicates its responsibility and gives him a blank check. Then massive unrest by the half of the country that passionately hates Bush.

Well, we can hope for the last part!

B-)

There won't be massive unrest initially. It will take some time (perhaps years) before people get tired of it and rise up.

Sure, there will be some dissent at first. However it will be quickly and easily put down.

If we have a major nuclear event in this country with tens of thousands of people dead. People will be too shocked, too scared, to question martial law.

the entire country shutting down like most of you seem to think. Even if they could shut down Moveon.org, commmondreams, DU, etc. in the U.S., they could move their operations overseas. We're in the Internet age! Are they going to shut THAT down? How? It is much, much more difficult to control the spread of information now. Will they ban Chomsky? NPR? The New York Times? George Soros? How exactly will they do this? Do they have the manpower, intelligence capabilities, prison space, etc?

I do agree with just about everyone that Bush would declare martial law. I have NO faith that Congress or the courts would stand in his way, sad to say. Maybe Feingold, Kucinich etc would say something, but they would be shouted down.

I also am afraid a scenario like in The Siege is all too likely. People of Arab descent, and many other people of color, will get profiled and worse, like never before.

However, think about how many prominent people with power not only dislike Bush, but actively distrust him, Ashcroft, Cheney, and the whole lot. Think Wes Clark. A large chunk of the public actively distrusts Bush's motives, probably more than a third of the country. These people feel strongly that he overreacted to 9/11. We will all just put our heads down and accept the shredding of the principles this country was founded on?

Of course there would be massive shock, grief, and cleanup, and a major hit to the economy. Of course some Patrot Act on steroids would easily pass. Of course times would be very, very grim. But we all need to believe that we will fight pretty f'in hard for the principles that this country was founded on.

Did you see The Siege. It would like that only worse.

martial law would be declared. And all dissent, all criticism of the "president" would be suppressed. Sites like this would be shut down. No group of more than some specified number (probably about 10 or 15 people) would be allowed to meet with permission from the authorities. Except for schools, probably, although the more liberal of the colleges would wind up shut down. We'd all have to sign loyalty oaths to keep our jobs. Lots of us would wind up in "protective custody". Gas would be rationed. If you're a good Republican who drives a Hummer, you'll get all the gas you need. A Green or Libertarian who drives a Volvo, forget it. Most Dems would get limited gas (10 gallons per week maybe) no matter what they drive.

That's just a start.

New draconian laws would be passed with such swiftness that it would be impossible to keep up with them and to know what you'd really be allowed to do.

I don't think the administration is so corrupt as to set off a nuke inside this country, but they'd have no qualms about exploiting it to the fullest if it happened.

Plan "B" if they drop dramatically in the polls or they lose the election.

Amazing to me nobody mentions sadness for those who would die. And anybody who stood in the way of preventing it, if it was possible, would rightly be blamed. And if you don't want marshall law, maybe trying to prevent something like this is the smartest option.

Perhaps they may be the lucky ones.

..the end of Democracy in the United States.

Buy survival gear now, because it won't be available after that sort of event.

Shotguns, dehydrated camping food, bottled water, camping gear, etc.etc.etc.

North Korea fires a missle and takes out Seattle. North Korea becomes a radioactive parking lot.

Terrorist attack: Divides into two scenarios:
By testing the radioactive trace elements the plant that made the plutonium can be identified. We can know who made the bomb.

Bomb was made by Iran or North Korea. They become very large radioactive parking lots. Made by somebody else - diplomatic problem - but somebody will be nuked, maybe several somebodies.

Islamic terrorists will get the blame. Whether they actually did it, they will be blamed. The population in general will have a passionate hatred of Islam and Arabs. To speak up for them will be suicide - literal suicide - not just political suicide. There will be a national purging of those elements.

Each Arab country will be told by the U.S., after somebody has been nuked in retaliation: Clean up your terrorists or you will be next. You have 72 hours to show results - or else. A couple of slow Arab counties will be glassed, and the other gov'ts will fall in line - fast.

Europe will be scared both ways. They have had terrorist problems too. And they will be afraid that a terrorist group may have a gripe against one of their countries and may nuke them. They will get super busy on getting tough on finding terrorists. They will also be scared of the USA.

That's for the first few days. Then the gov't will suspend most rights to enable easier hunting for terrorists. Anybody that protests will be assumed to be on the side of the terrorists, and dealt with accordingly, and very swiftly.

Oh yes - All of the above is if a Democrat is President and there is a Democrat majority in the congress and on the SCOTUS. If they are Republican, as they all are now, the gov't response will be more severe.

Is this * October suprise; his "big idea"????????

I don't think I am wandering too far off into tinfoil hat land with this. Check out

http://www.sonic.net/sentinel/gvcon6.html

Seriously scary stuff and bush wouldn't hesitate a minute to use it.

food shortages, gas shortages and general pandemonium, most of the anti-gun zealots would quickly change their minds and realize how short sighted they were.