Dennis Kucinich is the only one hitting the issues seriously...

although I will vote for ANY Democratic Party candidate that wins the nomination, I feel Kucinich and Clark are the only ones not engaged in childish sniping and are on target with the issues. The others obviously hit on the issues but seem to be all to eager to engage in backbiting.

A bit testy tonite because you know Dennis did a helluva job on the debate??

But other candidates have to actually appeal to the center and left, so it's tough. I'm sure they all feel the same way as DK.

who thought he was the best supported him. Have you seen the polls, like POTUSpoll (which has preferential voting) and democrats.com that has Fantasy voting? Dennis Kucinich always wins!!!

:eyes:

Kuncinich: Against NAFTA, FTAA

Dean: For NAFTA, FTAA

Seems like Dean doesn't feel the same way as DK.

Here's the point: The presidency shouldn't be a fucking popularity and charisma contest. It's about issues. If it is about charisma, then get a gun and shoot me between the eyes of it. At least that's a quick death, which is preferable to a slow death.

(I'm not religious, but I support your view wholeheartedly.) I am so tired of style and no substance - not to name any names.

I wish the rest of the country would wake up!!

So it's okay with you that they sell us out?

because I hadn't noticed, because like most people not activily supporting DK, I'm just soooooo f****** stupid. I will correct my thought now and shove it up my own ass.

Dennis is living in 'dream land' it's easy to appear 'serious' ...

I like dreams because if you will it, it is no dream. It is a goal of mine that we'll someday have a man like FDR, JFK or DJK in the white house again. If you don't like reality than you should change it. DUH!!

Dennis just 'dreams'...

Giving up on them is a deathblow to our country and the world.

Suurrrrrre, dreamland! Where you too, can become the youngest mayor in Cleveland's history, risk your career to save a PUBLIC utility, and then resurrect your career in order to represent your district in Congress - from a major state with a large population. Dreamland! My big white ass.

Dreamers don't accomplish those things. DOers do.

After watching the debate tonight and his appearance in Florida this weekend, I find Kucinich's positions on Iraq and NAFTA/WTO positions to be unrealistic/too simplistic. I think globalization is here to stay and we have to amend NAFTA/WTO to make it more fair to protect American jobs, not abandon them completely. As for Iraq, I really had a problem with his Iraq plan on pulling out our troops immediately. It seemed to really be unrealistic. I don't understand how we can expect the U.N. to clean up the mess we made in Iraq without any of our troops. I also don't understand how he thinks he is going to accomplish this. Why would other countries want to put their troops in danger, when we aren't willing to do the same? Dean's plan seems to be much more realistic to me. Pull out one of our reserve groups and a form an international coalition similar to GWI that would allow U.S. troops presense to slowly pull out over time. While I am a Dean supporter, I am willing to vote for anyone but Bush in the election. However, I am really not understanding DK's reasoning on his plan. And it seems Sharpton has this same plan? Can someone explain this reasoning to me?

it's dreamville plain and simple.

Some people said that about Paul Wellstone.

Your dismissal of Kucinich is out of place with your alleged support of Wellstone's legacy.

www.wellstone.org link and bashes Kucinich's ideas....

I R CONFUSED. :)

TWL

The way it's written up you can either take it or leave it. There's no way of amending it and this isn't a "Globaleconomy" it's Globalcorpratism.

do state that you can't recend from the WTO and it's true we gave up our soverign rights to the corporatists but.....if the USA would declare that it will no longer participate and break the agreement the WTO would fall apart or be seriously disabled. I think if we did this many other countries would follow suit. What are they going to do declare War on us?

Because it's illegal under WTO rules, which is why we know that when Dean pretends to want to add his "labor and environmental protections" he's just all talk.

Kucinich supports global trade, as everyone does, and wants free and fair global trade through BILATERAL TRADE AGREEMENTS - a plan that has worked in the past (it's how the USA became an economic superpower).

Dean doesn't have a trade plan, he has a label - "fair trade" that lets him avoid talking about the reality of trade.

his best debate so far. He was fired up and making sense.

The DLC won't approve of that:crazy:

Kucinich's best debate so far and he really put Dean in check over his "I was against the war but support the occupation" position.....Well done DK !!!!!

Wanting a president who could make sense...

I think Sharpton brought up good and solid points as well.
Though Kunnich went on the attack from moment one with the issues with the nice spin on how the media is biased and unfair.

Have you seen the American media? You want to know why 48% of the American people agreed to invade Iraq? Because the media instead of questioning the pResident they just repeated what horseshit came out of his mouth as it was true. That's why 70% of the people think Saddam was behind 9/11.

I may agree with him on the issues more than the others, but it is unfair to say the others are weak or sidestepping. They are not. I may disagree with the other candidates, but I think they are giving the issues their due.

The media, on the other hand... :eyes:

A *lot*.

On edit: But I don't agree that he was the only one hitting the issues seriously. Most of the candidates were great.

with Kucinich tonight. I think he did a great job.

My dad will be redeployed in 2005 whether dean clark or bush getelected i think that if you are aggainst innocent iraqi civilians and american citizens from dying in an oil war/occupation then the only serious cannidates are al sharpton and kucinich and they both did a good job making that clear tonight

and welcome to DU :toast:

peace

Thank you for having your own brain unlike somepeople here on GD.

BTW Welcome to DU Corporate whore:hi:

god that was tuff to say. But hey CW, you picked the username, at least it wasn't labeled on you!
:hi:
lol, just imagining having a sasquatch and a corp. whore in the same room in agreement...what a wonderful world..
dp

:hi: back at you

I like almost all of our candidates but I can't get past my biggest issue which is kicking the war addiction.. I like Dennis because he speaks up loud and clear on the subject -- a voice for the voiceless.

A vote for Kucinich is a vote to bring our troops home.

Part of the reason he is addressing many very important issues head-on is because he isn't a front runner, and therefore has a lot of room to say what he believes.

I would like to think he would be doing the same thing if he were polling as well as Dean, Clark, Kerry...
I imagine he would be.

But being on the bottom and out of the limelight makes it easy to say what you mean and mean what you say.

I hope I didn't screw that up...

he was basically the same on the issues before he declared. He just has a brighter spotlight now. Maybe he's fooliing me, but he appears to be a politician who actually believes in telling the truth.

I am not trying to suggest that Kucinich is saying the things he is saying because he is campaign. I am saying that he is still free to say things he said in the past... Screw it. I am getting caught up in semantics...

he does have pressures and something to lose in speaking out, too: he has a career in Congress; if seen as too extreme by his constituents in the glaring light of presidential politics he may not get another chance in office..etc., etc.

on edit: my point is, PLENTY of lesser men -- driven more by ambition and less by principles -- respond to such pressures by waffling and caving in, to protect whatever position they've already got or their future or whatever. Heck, even at the level of mayor or city councilman, there are plenty who cave in to corporate constituents, etc.

Regardless, I am very glad that he is out there talking about the issues. I think it HAS shifted debate and consciousness just a bit. Gives the other candidates a further-left position by which to mark themselves, so they don't end up fighting to be the most Republican.

at least i haven't noticed a change... this is how he always runs, with the PEOPLE :bounce:

peace

How doin' BPilgram BTW?

yet...

sup sasquatch, feel'n pretty good tonight :hi:

peace

my friend, and imagine it would be, if it could be. Then you too will vote for Dennis Kucinich.

bottoms, tops, are all relevent positions. You have to put your heart in the place you want the world to be.
and your vote as well.

Polls, endorsements, media attention have no affect on those that know where they want to be. Do you want to be there too?
Follow that thought.

peace,
dp

I don't know who I will actually vote for in the primaries.
I might vote for Kucinich.

that questions.
you will find the answer. Trust that.

peace,
dp

for asking people to listen to their hearts....it's brave and truthful.

and I understand that Kucinich's views can be viewed as being "leftwing" as opposed to those of Howard Dean. With such an extremist already occupying the White House someone like Dennis looks like the extremist in the other direction. I suppose that makes Dean look like a moderate compromise that CAN be elected.

I just wish Kucinich's views appealed to more people than they do. It's unfortunate that they probably do resonate with most people but write him off as unelectable and with such high stakes in place, its understood that the re-capture of the White House AND the Congress is priority....

'he's a KOOK'

but everyone says naw... i got my OWN thoughts, it all in your head, you conspiracy theorist!

peace

You make a good point when you say that his view probably actually do appeal to more people than polls would indicate.

I think alot of his problem is that too many people think he can't win.

But he could. He could whip the snot out of Bush.

BUT I thought Gore could too. And he did... but, well, here we are...

:argh:

peace

if people would go with what they want, instead of just focusing on winning Kucinich could win.

I have heard so many people say they like him, that he represents what they want but they turn their back on that because they are so afraid he won't win that they make sure he won't by doing so.

One of the reason's "he isn't a front runner" is *because* he's
addressing many very important issues head-on, i.e., telling
the unvarnished truth.

that we support that only people who are the most unlikely to win are the ones we expect to be honest. What a sham it all is and many support lying to win.......

He's clearly my choice, however, he's not the ONLY one hitting the issues. However, he's hitting MY issues more than anyone.

It's a personal thing, man.

SPRADLING: My questions are this: Can you elaborate on what that was that made you change your mind on an issue like this?

And, secondly, do you still see that life begins at conception?

KUCINICH: I think that I may be the only person who is capable of uniting this nation on this very divisive issue, specifically because of the journey that I've taken.

And I've always worked to make abortions less necessary, through sex education and birth control.

But the direction that Congress has taken, increasingly, is to make it impossible for women to be able to have an abortion if they need to protect their health.

As a matter of fact, in the Stenberg v. Carhart case, the Congress just rejected the Supreme Court's decision that said that the health of the mother had to be taken into consideration.

So when I saw the direction that was taken, all the years of discussion that I've had with women in my life, with women in Congress, it finally came to the point where I understood that women in this society will not be truly free unless they have the right to choose.

And I think that we can work to make abortions less necessary, through sex education and birth control, but only in the context of protecting Roe v. Wade.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50859-2003Dec9_2.html

Seems like he didn't want to answer that part.

:wow:

but i THINK most reasonable folks TRUST his word and are ready to MoveOn! to OTHER issues.

can't we leave the distractions to the media whores... at least they get paid for it. whats your excuse?

peace

:crazy: This is insane. My whole country is becoming what Friedman is right now! Totally crazy:(

One of the biggest selling points that Kucinich backers push is his integrity. What does he have to hide?

stop empowering them, please :hi:

peace

Or was the only one who was sincere about it?

How black and white is this issue for you?!

First off Kucinich took nearly two years off from voting on choice related issues because he was figuring out things for himself...you've never contemplated a personal belief? He voted AGAINST the PBA ban and also took to the floor of the house to denounce it. He and Kerry are the only two candidates that have said that they would make supporting choice a litmus test for SCOTUS nominees.

But you could read more about this at:
http://www.kucinich.us/issues/rightsreproductive.php

But I gather that either...
A) You have read it, but your disdain for Kucinich causes you to ignore reality and pursue baseless bashing of Dennis.

B) You have not read it and are over-reacting to anti-Kucinich talking points you picked up somewhere.. which is excusable and why I provided you with a link.

Here is a neat trick you should try. Take a poll on how many people on DU are PERSONALLY pro-life, but adamantly pro-choice.

You might find the results interesting.

TWL

on an issue that is almost impossible to unite on. I respect his position, from both sides of the battle.

most people believe the way he does on this issue.

Dennis Kucinich is hands down the best on all the issues and speaks for me.

So why am I supporting Howard Dean? He can and will beat Geroge Bush.

And this coming election may just be our last chance to prevent the final multinational corporate takeover of our nation.

i can vouch for that ;->

:hi:

peace

:hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi:

him and see him as the best candidate.

If voters know what Dennis Kucinich supports, and they agree with him, but they don't vote for him out of some idea that he's not "electable" or not "attractive" enough, they will deserve what they get, which will be a compromise -- and compromised -- candidate receiving the nomination and losing to Bush in a GOP landslide.


"If the people have a choice between a Republican and a Democrat acting like a Republican, they'll choose the Republican every time." -- Harry Truman

If the 'sheeple' hear this then the coporate military industrail complex will be out of power and off to Geneva to face crimes against humanity charges.

I loved it when he said the media was to blame for the idiocy in the campaign by asking about endorsements and money, thereby avoiding real issues.

And honestly, how unfair was it to Dean that Koppel gave 8 other people free reign to attack him by making him the sole focus of the first question, and only giving him 60 seconds to respond to all that criticism??

and we got their complicity in this radical imperial takeover recorded for posterity on the internet :bounce:

well as long as the radicals in the wh don't star droppin nukes or sometin

:scared:

what will history say...

MISERABLE FAILURE

peace

of the lot of them... balls clearly are in shorter supply or there'd be more. My dream administration is Kucinich president, clark vp, dean sec of state, mccain sec defense, powell chairman of the national committee to provide healthcare to all americans, carosmosley bruan as secreteary of education, something like that.

When somebody tells me that Kucinich can't win, I usually chuckle and say, "That's what the British thought about Gandhi!"
Sometimes I suggest that's what the "powers that be" (and of course that includes the corporate owned media), want them to think, because they are scared that Dennis is eminently electable. That's why they don't want to tell people about him.
I talk about Michael Moore and the thousands of people who have shown up to listen to him on his latest book tour, and Michael's absolute conviction that WE ARE THE MAJORITY!
I invite them to believe in the power of their own convictions, to believe that we are really much larger in numbers, and more powerful with our combined energies than that media would remotely have us think. We need to go for what we truly want - not what they tell us we should settle for. Those who attempt to control us use fear to try to convince us to buy their picture of reality, and limit our thoughts of possibility of a different outcome. Pure hogwash! I encourage them to "cancel their subscription" to mainstream media, and to network person to person, heart to heart with their friends, their family, their neighbors and co-workers, as well as to network online. The internet is a powerful, powerful resource, which as Timothy Leary asserted, was the most revolutionary work he had ever engaged in.
"Do not wait for leaders," said Mother Teresa, "Do it alone person to person!"
"I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I shall not refuse to do the something I can do, " said Helen Keller.
"What you do may seem insignificant," said Gandhi, "but it is most important that you do it."
Peace is possible. We can make a difference. Or as the Star Elders say, "We are the ones we have been waiting for.".........peace & light, jeannie P.S. I wish I had written this, but Jeannie Breeze, a good friend did. I can't add anything to this, except that she's right on! :toast:

He's beatin' the biggest, the baddest and the most paid.:thumbsup: He carry's tungston steel filled boxing gloves and he can't wait to throw them at Bush.

:toast:

Hang on to your hat though; it's going to be a rocky ride til the Primaries!

Peace and welcome again!

Welcome Oceanpine to DU!

We seem to have several new and very intelligent Dennis K supporters joining our ranks. You truly 'get it'. Which is also why we support Kucinich. First step: "Getting It" :)

TWL

:bounce:

Everytime I hear Braun speaks she brings up Bush's attacks on Civil Liberties but of course no one listens to her.

was that towards Dean...?

They don't want any Dem to get elected so they just make fun of them and never bring up the issues.

Dennis does quite well on his feet, in a debate format, and he knows how to steer BS questions back to the important issues. He also got the LOUDEST and LONGEST applause of the night when the called the corporate media on their bullshit, nonsense, insulting questions and how they try to avoid the issues.

He sticks to the issues and tells the corporate media to go stick it when they just want to bash dems. He want's the debates and politics to be about issues, not money, campaigning, polls and other bullshit that has nothing to do with at hand.

Unfortunately for DK, running a campaign on issues is a 100% losing strategy.

Kucinich is the candidate who's fighting the hardest to make America a better place.

DK usually does very well in a debate format, but he was on fire last night. I hope he keeps it up. Of course, the NYT pretended he wasn't even in the debates.