The Osama advertisement has to be a sick Reichwing maneuver.

I just watched it for the first time.

This is Reich wing fear, my buds, FEAR being the hallmark.

Whoever did this is groveling for power based on FEAR just as surely as Chimpy is--and that leads me to believe that he is behind it somehow.

We have recently seen the pathetic attempts to divide the Democratic party. Do you think this is any different? Sounds like the same modus operandi to me.

It's the same mindset. Make no mistake!

FEAR again?

The American people are better than that.

Just like something from a cable television commercial.

How condescendingly manipulative that is? Can there be any doubt?

to be effective. I'd say it was done by dilectants. To be done effectively it has to make you think about those issues without saying anything about them directly. Essentially, planting the seeds that your reasoning machine uses to automatically infer what you want people to infer. I think this ad is gonna flop big.

all evening since I got on here. I tried to view it, but I have dialup and run Windows 98. I gather that it is pretty disturbing to get so many people so upset.
My question is this, when will we be able to know for sure who is directly responsible for this ad? I know there is a connection to former, senior staffers from both the Gephardt and Kerry campaigns, but that's not clear cut enough evidence for me yet. Are the Dean people seriously looking into this ad attack as we type? I couldn't find anything over on Dean for America, need a link if anyone has one. Thanks

after the most important primaries have already passed.

is to vote for Dean in the primaries. That's the only way to make sure you don't vote for whoever is behind this ad. I am convinced that Gephardt is behind it but I think Kerry might be behind it too. That's a big bulk of cash that I don't think Gephardt could come up with it all by himself. Kerry, on the other hand could, or at least his wife could. Just to be on the safe side, I wouldn't vote for either one of them. I don't think Edwards would stoop this low. I guess Lieberman could, but I don't think he's in on it. I don't think Clark is in on it either. And the others? No way.

as well as Clark.

The other three are footnotes in this election.

For fund-raising purposes.

I don't know if that's the case; but please keep an open mind:

-BushCo constanty uses the media as a PR branch via "leaks."
-So far this is all leak and no proven broadcast.
-If you believe this story, then Kerry and Gephardt are
automatically smeared, even if someone from their campaign quit
and joined Dean's payroll.
-It's very heavy handed:
QUOTE
"A new ad questioning Howard Dean's national security credentials is
backed by a group that includes former supporters of rivals Dick
Gephardt and John Kerry."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/12/12/politics2015EST0748.DTL
UNQUOTE

In the media do you trust?

Makes as much sense as your theory.

edited to add It's a real ad and exists on a real PAC web site run by real Democrats.

he is running ahead in two of the states it *might* be running in. The least likely scenario is that it is from the Dean camp. Strategically it makes little sense (on the Osama ad) to hype negatives in hopes of raising more money in order to run ads to counter the negatives in the Osama ad (risky that it might not raise enough.. and silly in that what would be raised would have to counter one's own attack - thus the money raised really wouldn't add value.)

I am still not clear that this is actually running on TV. The scenario is very different if it is just an internet flash-type movie vs. a tv ad for the general public.

Personally I don't know who is "behind" it - and would doubt it is directly linked to any campaign. However the primary three principles are on the record as having worked on two campaigns and one is a former elected democrat - so it is safe to say that these folks are in the small dc circle of "democratic strategists" (consulting firms that do different campaign type work - and perhaps some free lance - on behalf of various candidates.)

What has concerned me for awhile (since the '00 electon) is that the small circle - that tends to be a bit incestuous (eg worked for each other at one point in time... similar viewpoints... work as an echo chamber to reinforce views rather than challenge them) - as was the case - to a lesser degree for the brief period while I worked in this world in the mideighties (but in my cycle - we re-took the senate!) I have no qualms with the NRA ad. Seems fair game. The OSAMA ad, however, by tying "safety in this new terrorism world" with Bush (which the ad does) - leaves an impression for all viewers (if on TV this does not just go to democratic viewers)... that the GOP has been playing for two years. That only the GOP can "keep us safe"... that lasting impression - in the states where it airs *IF it airs*... will linger - and hurt ANY democratic nominee in the General Election. It won't be hard for the GOP to play ads that accentuate that theme and the candidate will have to combat the longer impression (that starts airing 8 months before GOP ad hit) as well as the current onslaught (during the general election... which will be exploited.. after all this ad lays the ground work.)

Folks who believe certain candidates would be innoculated against such charges did not take note in the 2002 Senatorial race in Georgia, where a Vietnam War Hero - who lost three limbs in the war - was successfully characterized as being weak on security/defense and thus supporting Osama and Saddam. He was running against a draft dodger. War Hero vs. Draft Dodger.. did not prevent the attacks - OR in the responses to the attacks allow to overcome the residual sentiment created by the Cleland "aligned with Osama and Saddam." Clelean, if you recall, voted for the IWR.

SO what concerns me is that whoever is responsible (if any campaign(s)) that this is emblematic of the very poor campaign strategies being advocated by the inner dem circle of DC based strategists - and we can see their effectiveness in the 2000 and 2002 elections (look beyond president to include congressional/senate races.) If they are such weak strategists that they can not see the inherent advantage they give to Bush - regardless of candidate (Dean or NOt) - and their ideas are representative of teh DC group think... then we are going to see many more campaigns that are out maneuvered - as this ad represents exceptionally short-term thinking and (like the bushies/neocons) seems unable to fully factor in the likely negatives associated with this in the general election that would hurt their favorite candidate were that candidate to win the nomination.

"How condescendingly manipulative that is? Can there be any doubt?"

If ad bad=must give money to Dean.

Former Congressman Edward Feighan is the President of Americans for Jobs, Health Care & Progressive Values. He is also currently the Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer of ProCentury Corporation, the parent of the Century Insurance Group based in Columbus, Ohio.

Now go to opensecrets.org:

FEIGHAN, EDWARD
LAKEWOOD,OH 44107
CENTURY INSURANCE GROUP/DIRECTOR
2/5/2003
$2,000
Gephardt, Richard A.

Nope, this has Democrats all over it, including a guy who quit Kerry's campaign.

it reeks of an inside the democratic party smear job. I know Gephardt and Kerry must be pretty desperate, but would they sink this low? How irate is the Dean campaign and are they persuing action against the "people" behind this ad? Has Edward Feighan been reached for a comment, is this newsworthy enough to be on the Sunday talk shows tomorrow? In other words, are we the only ones following this story?

in fact, they are Dems!! former staff to Gephardt and Kerry! Think there's not a division in the Democratic Party? wonder why some of these candidates voted for the Iraq War?

On a small scale, it might not matter that way.

America is at a crossroads, facing perhaps the most important Presidential election in a generation. That’s why Americans for Jobs, Healthcare and Progressive Values was formed.

Our mission is to inform and educate citizens as to the various presidential candidates’ stands on critical issues facing American families related to jobs, healthcare and progressive values.

The Honorable Edward F. Feighan, President

"About Us"

Former Congressman Edward Feighan is the President of Americans for Jobs, Health Care & Progressive Values. He is also currently the Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer of ProCentury Corporation, the parent of the Century Insurance Group based in Columbus, Ohio. The Century Insurance Group is a specialty-lines insurer, writing commercial property/casualty insurance for niche markets nationwide, operating in 49 States and has annual gross premiums of approximately $175 million. Mr. Feighan has served as member of the board of directors of ProCentury since October, 2000.

Mr. Feighan served 20 consecutive years in elected office beginning in 1972. He served as a State Representative for six years, a Cuyahoga County Commissioner for four years, and as member of the United States House of Representatives for ten years. Congressman Feighan has been recognized as a leading authority on foreign policy and international trade and finance.

Since departing Congress in 1993, Congressman Feighan has served as a member of the Commission on Privatization in Russia; the U.S. Commission for Improving the United Nations; the Board of Trustees of the National Democratic Institute for International Affairs; the National Council of International Programs; and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum.

From 1996 to 1998, Mr. Feighan served as the Senior Vice President, founding President, CEO and director of Century Business Services, Inc. (NASDAQ: CBIZ). Century Business Services was recognized as the Best Growth Company in Ohio in 1999 by the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

Mr. Feighan is also a founding partner of American Foreign Capital Partners (AFCAP). Maintaining offices in Cleveland, Ohio and St. Petersburg, Russia, AFCAP represents several multi-national businesses in the former Soviet Union. From 1998 until Mr. Feighan joined the senior management of Century Insurance Group, he served as the Managing Partner of Alliance Financial, Limited, a Cleveland, Ohio-based firm specializing in mergers, acquisitions and merchant banking services.

http://www.progressivevalues.com/default.asp?ID=3

====
Welcome to the Soros paid ads. Expect many more.

Edward F. Feighan was Bill Clinton's campaign Communications Director who got pretty close to Hillary at the Institute for Policy Studies
http://www.ips-dc.org/index.htm

It was Edward F. Feighan who introduced the Brady Bill in the House in 1987 as the NRA campaigned heavily against the gun control issue. http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Aborn1.html

George Stephanopoulos was his Administrative Assistant and later his Chief of Staff.
http://63.147.65.175/books/chap0411b.htm

Served on the Clinton Administration: Committee on Health, Education, Labor & Pensions
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/dward/classes/congpres/sim00.html


Neo-cons
vs
Centrists
vs
Progressives
vs
Corporations
vs
sincere, confused people, who don't have a clue about what's really going on
-----------

My theory? Soros and his 15 million. Soros never makes an investment he's not going to recoup handsomely. Hang on to your hats boys because Soros is furious at Putin right now for locking up his mafia oil buddy in Russia, shutting down Soros' "Democratic operations" that were financing the same kind of Democracy the National Endowment for Democracy trying to bring to Venezuela (oil) and sternly warned Soros and Bush to stay the hell out of the Caspian Sea area not try that little stunt they pulled in Georgia with Shevernadze again.

Meanwhile Soros' Democratic Think Tanks to "oust Bush" and replace him with a kindler, gentler Bush are gaining a foot-hold.

Nope, Rove is not really behind this one. Rove collaborators maybe but the enemy is within.

Clark
Braun
Clinton
Clinton
Kucinich
Sharpton
Gephardt
Kerry
Lieberman
Edewards
Rangel
Cleland
Graham
Landreau
Democratic Underground (it has Democrat in the name)
And all other Democrats had something to do with the ad.

:hi:

are perceived to be involved.

It's basically an opportunist piece of.........