Wanna see what a Bush win in 2004 looks like?

http://www.counterpunch.org/stanton12032003.html

And it's scary. We need to do everything in our power to make sure he doesn't get in again.

that France Germany China and Russia would be so nice and polite during all of it, and that Britain would remain such a staunch coalitionist throughout.

Since they also are going the fascist route and have oil interests.

France and Germany probably will definitely have a problem with it.
If he gets in again, there's really nothing to hold him back domesticly not worrying about re-selection.

Thanks for the morbid read!

:scared:

every time the forum starts to get cluttered with candidate bashing posts. This article scared me so much I briefly thought of buying a gun while reading it. YIKES PEOPLE!!!

I have 3 draft age siblings and I would almost have to fight even though I am sick.

and oh so true.

To top it off, the Democratic Party leadership, including some of the candidates, are doing everything they can to insure this future for us and our children.

Goddess help us all.

The dems had better pick one who is not a neo-lib.

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to the same detention centers???

Don't FORGET .. this has been coming for TWO YEARS >>>>>>

nice to have you here. Help us join the fight to oust Bush in 2004.

:)

ty

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

Above all the "He can win, She/He can't" argument, is the voting machines.

for this fate. Talk of Syria, N.Korea, Cuba, Iran, and the use of nuclear weapons. Three yrs ago we would have laughed if someone said things would be as bad as they are now. I not only concur with this assessment (with slight changes) but I cannot for the life of me think of a way to avoid it. For me and my way of thinking, it's too late. We already proved to this gang we didn't have any nerve when we allowed SCOTUS to select him. Since then they've had no reason to hide their monsterous intentions.

At least not anyone around me, how bad he could be. I knew, it was just fruitless trying to convince anyone else, especially after 9/11.

This would make that look like Sesame Street.

There are few who realize the horror that's about to take place. It's understandable because the human condition is one of turning away and belief in some intervention. Bush will win. This is definate for me. Diebold is real. In the name of National Security, they will strike out across the globe. They have the government, the media, the military, the multi-nationals, and the god-fearing folk behind them. If I had any belief system, I would almost question whether this is the beginning of the end.

As a military power also to counteract. But, I don't know. I'm just as leerie as you are about this.

sometimes you just have to finish something before there's a new beginning. These crazy-bots don't know that the results they are hoping for will be a bitter fruit for even themselves.

John Stanton. Like he says, this will happen soon after * is corrupted back into office. The EU is decades away from being a counterforce. WW3 began when we falsely invaded Iraq. It will end in an enormous death toll, mostly arabs. I'm middle aged, so I feel mostly sad for younger people. It's really sickening.

And he uses false religion to get away with it. Even more sickening.

Call me overly pessimistic, but if (when?) Bush wins in 2004, it will be the death knell of American democracy. If Bush isn't worrying about re-selection, he won't even have to hide what he's doing. I'm not sure he'll go so far as to declare the Democratic party "domestic insurgents", but you can bet that the left-wingers among us (not to mention anyone who dares speak out against the BFEE) are going to be in some serious trouble.

I'll see y'all in Guantanamo Bay. Save me a seat if you get there before I do.

About a band of musicians during the Nazi Era. I think that's how it will go. I wish I could remember the name of it. It's fairly recent.

the cigar afficianado article...?

(on edit)

actually if someone could send the entire article in a private message would be great...seems that the government computers won't allow me to access that site...

sheesh...

Overestimating the enemy, underestimating we the people of the world.

Bush stealing the elections in 2004 is likely, and good for the world. Bush will take US empire down with him faster than would happen otherwise. Americans, finding they are robbed and deceived, will start revolting, and Bush will need all troops loyal to the corporate interests to keep the masses under his boot. Syria and Iran are a fools dream, if US tries to invade, in Iran it will loose. (Forget helping hand from Turkey, Turkey will fight US rather than Iran...).

The article is wrong, overly pessimistic in so many details it is not worth to point them all out.

in suggesting that the Bush juggernaut in 2004, with the help of Republican governors and Diebold is unstoppable and that nothing can stop his re-selection.

But I think this type of article needs to be read. We need to fully contemplate the prospects and worst-case-scenario of another 4 years of Bush. For that, I thank the individual who posted this. We need this nightmare vision to give us courage and determination to keep working for our candidates and our values, but not to give up in despair.

Because no matter who your dem pick is, or even third party, the alternative is much worse.

Make my day!

Only a military failure can bring down this administration. Currently we have a PR event to close out the year, the capture of Saddam. But the reality is far different- our war on Iraq is an economic and political failure. While the corporate enrichment of chosen political cronies goes on, permanent damage is being done to the American body politic, armed forces and economy. The cost of fighting the armed opposition in Iraq has already far exceeded any conceivable economic benefit. It is a quagmire. Ultimately, conflict will not end there until we are forced out.

Much of the neo-con strategy is a bluff, based on the old "great game" machinations of the old British Empire. Syria and Iran are not Afghanistan. A direct physical confrontation with these countries will literally result in a state of widespread and costly perpetual war in the middle east. The distances in Iran are daunting. Any use of nuclear weapons will result in a covert nuclear retaliation against us, courtesy of one of the other nuclear powers supplying the necessay weapon(s) for reasons of its own.

Our bases in Asia are too far forward and vulnerable. The economy, efficiency and mobility of sea power are wasted with an overextended land based strategy. Our Army is too small and our Air Forces, who are the major supporters of the land based strategy in Asia, don't have adequate logistic capability to support any but a limited number of positions there if our forces are confronted with armed conflict. Our two major allies Britain and Japan are dependent on the sea. How far will they follow us on the path of strategic folly?

The analysis of potential events in N.Korea is not completely consistent with the balance of power there. Without Chinese military intervention, the N.Korean military would collapse in relatively short order, it would not last out a winter season. There would be no Russian intervention of any kind because the Chinese would not allow it under any circumstances. What Stanton has right is that the Chinese would force us to trade reintegration of Taiwan on a schedule, for reunification of Korea, along with permanent withdrawal of all foreign troops from the peninsula, effectively making a unified Korea a Chinese buffer state. This would represent a major American retreat in East Asia. Any attempt to resolve issues by force in N.Korea will result in Chinese military intervention if a wholesale reordering of East Asia with Chinese agreement is not obtained. Such a conflict by itself would bring down the administration before 2008 if it occurred.

However, the basic thrust of this article is correct. The risks are enormous. The only thing that probably will stop our current regime is an unsuccessful war. The irony is that this regime and its hair brained policies of world domination and its fig leaf, "the war on terror," are supported by the majority of elected representatives in Congress.

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Frees up troops for Syria.

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and actually help defeat Republicans? If they don't we now know just how immoral they really are.

But there are some Neo-Dems who have the same goal in mind. Maybe it will be different now.

The hard left tone of this article may lead some to dismiss it, but I agree with its basic ideas. The Bush regime has been relatively restrained so far. But if he wins in 2004, that will be used as a validation of his policies, and he will carry out the "people's business" by quickly expanding his war to multiple fronts. They have already moved Syria into the on-deck circle. I believe they want to hand over authority in Iraq to Iraqi puppets and ill-equipped Iraqi security forces so that then we can redeploy our troops to Syria and later Iran. We'll still need a draft to cover all fronts. The best way to get the American public to buy into all this, of course, is with another 9/11 (which shouldn't be too hard to accomplish now that we've succeeded in creating a lot more pissed off Muslims; we'll just need to turn our backs at the approriate time). With Brother Jeb waiting in the wings, we could be looking at 12 years of the BFEE unrestrained. It will certainly result in the death of American democracy.

I'm a Howard Dean supporter, and I like to tell myself that he has a good chance of winning next November. But a voice in the back of my mind tells me that the BFEE seized power and now control literally trillions of dollars--they will never relinquish it through the political process. If it looks like Dean is going to win, they will do something, anything, to prevent it--manufactured terrorist attacks here in the U.S., the suspension of the Constitution and declaration of martial law (dumbass Tommy Franks doesn't know enough to keep his mouth shut), or perhaps the old right wing tactic of assassination.

Onward, Christian Soldiers!

I can't even consider that. I've had to put up with him in Fl for 8 years.

With knowledge, clear-headedness, righteous anger, and the truth. We can still win in 2004, by enormous margins!

And, just in case, get thee to a gun show and stock up on the tools that patriots use to protect themselves from an oppressive government. Better safe than sorry.... :)

Nice post. We all should do that.

Hello? Is the author not from America? The EC is the way we do presidential elections here in the US of A. Why on earth would it be referred to as the "back door"?

and still win. That's why it's a "back door". Pub govs in Cali, NY, Fl, and TX almost assures an electoral win. I hope not though.

The EC is the law and the way we run elections in America. I fail to see how the chosen means can be anything except the front door.

So much for democracy huh? Or don't you like that? What about a bush win anyway? What do you think about that?

Being a rural dweller I'm not comfortable with the prospect of a few cities deciding what is best for the entire country. I realize most people here are city dwellers and would enjoy having the final say over us "rednecks" that shoot guns out our back door and piss off the front porch but the EC has been effective to combat those that would restrict our manners. I personally can't stand the city and refuse to be in a crowd of more than three or five unless they are all family.

The only way there can be a bush win is if we don't have a message that sells to the rural and city people.

Maybe we should just contemplate what another 4 years of Bush would look like.

SInce nearly every American is now suffering under the last four years the next four would make sure every single American not making ten million per year would be in a soup line and begging for a job. Like I said...a perfect entrance for Hillary to come in and save us.

It ain't gonna happen because if Bush gets another 4, there won't be a democracy for her to get in.

We need to get Bush out.

:)