Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

We Captured The Wrong Guy

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:00 PM
Original message
We Captured The Wrong Guy
Edited on Sun Dec-14-03 01:04 PM by WilliamPitt
Saddam Hussein, former employee of the American federal government, was captured near a farmhouse in Tikrit in a raid performed by other employees of the American federal government. That sounds pretty deranged, right? Perhaps, but it is also accurate. The unifying thread binding together everyone assembled at that Tikrit farmhouse is the simple fact that all of them – the soldiers as well as Hussein – have received pay from the United States for services rendered.

It is no small irony that Hussein, the Butcher of Baghdad, the monster under your bed lo these last twelve years, was paid probably ten thousand times more during his time as an American employee than the soldiers who caught him on Saturday night. The boys in the Reagan White House were generous with your tax dollars, and Hussein was a recipient of their largesse for the better part of a decade.

If this were a Tom Clancy movie, we would be watching the dramatic capture of Hussein somewhere in the last ten minutes of the tale. The bedraggled dictator would be put on public trial for his crimes, sentenced to several thousand concurrent life sentences, and dragged off to prison in chains. The anti-American insurgents in Iraq, seeing the sudden futility of their fight to place Hussein back into power, would lay down their arms and melt back into the countryside. For dramatic effect, more than a few would be cornered by SEAL teams in black facepaint and discreetly shot in the back of the head. The President would speak with eloquence as the martial score swelled around him. Fade to black, roll credits, get off my plane.

The real-world version is certainly not lacking in drama. The streets of Baghdad were thronged on Sunday with mobs of Iraqi people celebrating the final removal of a despot who had haunted their lives since 1979. Their joy was utterly unfettered. Images on CNN of Hussein, looking for all the world like a Muslim version of Charles Manson while getting checked for head lice by an American medic, were as surreal as anything one might ever see on a television.

Unfortunately, the real-world script has a lot of pages left to be turned. Former U.N. weapons inspector Scott Ritter, reached at his home on Sunday, said, “It’s great that they caught him. The man was a brutal dictator who committed terrible crimes against his people. But now we come to rest of story. We didn’t go to war to capture Saddam Hussein. We went to war to get rid of weapons of mass destruction. Those weapons have not been found.” Ray McGovern, senior analyst and 27-year veteran of the CIA, echoed Ritter’s perspective on Sunday. “It’s wonderful that he was captured, because now we’ll find out where the weapons of mass destruction are,” said McGovern with tongue firmly planted in cheek. “We killed his sons before they could tell us.”

Indeed, reality intrudes. The push for war before March was based upon Hussein’s possession of 26,000 liters of anthrax, 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin, 1,000,000 pounds of sarin gas, mustard gas, and VX nerve gas, along with 30,000 munitions to deliver these agents, uranium from Niger to be used in nuclear bombs, and let us not forget the al Qaeda terrorists closely associated with Hussein who would take this stuff and use it against us on the main streets and back roads of the United States.

When they found Hussein hiding in that dirt hole in the ground, none of this stuff was down there with him. The full force of the American military has been likewise unable to locate it anywhere else. There is no evidence of al al Qaeda agents working with Hussein, and Bush was forced some weeks ago to publicly acknowledge that Hussein had nothing to do with September 11. The Niger uranium story was debunked last summer.

Conventional wisdom now holds that none of this stuff was there to begin with, and all the clear statements from virtually everyone in the Bush administration squatting on the public record describing the existence of this stuff looks now like what it was then: A lot of overblown rhetoric and outright lies, designed to terrify the American people into supporting an unnecessary go-it-alone war which made a few Bush cronies rich beyond the dreams of avarice while allowing some hawks in the Defense Department to play at empire-building, something they have been craving for more than ten years.

Of course, that rhetoric mutated as the weapons stubbornly refused to be found. By the time Bush did his little ‘Mission Accomplished’ strut across the aircraft carrier, the occupation was about the removal of Saddam Hussein and the liberation of the Iraqi people. No longer were we informed on a daily basis of the “sinister nexus between Hussein and al Qaeda,” as described by Colin Powell before the United Nations in February. No longer were we fed the insinuations that Hussein was involved in the attacks of September 11. Certainly, any and all mention of weapons of mass destruction ceased completely. We were, instead, embarking on some noble democratic experiment.

The capture of Saddam Hussein, and the Iraqis dancing in the streets of Baghdad, feeds nicely into these newly-minted explanations. Mr. Bush and his people will use this as the propaganda coup it is, and to great effect. But a poet once said something about tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow.

“We are not fighting for Saddam," said an Iraqi named Kashid Ahmad Saleh in a New York Times report from a week ago. "We are fighting for freedom and because the Americans are Jews. The Governing Council is a bunch of looters and criminals and mercenaries. We cannot expect that stability in this country will ever come from them. The principle is based on religion and tribal loyalties," continued Saleh. "The religious principle is that we cannot accept to live with infidels. The Prophet Muhammad, peace be on him, said, `Hit the infidels wherever you find them.' We are also a tribal people. We cannot allow strangers to rule over us."

Welcome to the new Iraq. The theme that the 455 Americans killed there, and the thousands of others who have been wounded, fell at the hands of pro-Hussein loyalists is now gone. The Bush administration celebrations over this capture will appear quite silly and premature when the dying continues. Whatever Hussein bitter-enders there are will be joined by Iraqi nationalists who will now see no good reason for American forces to remain. After all, the new rhetoric highlighted the removal of Hussein as the reason for this invasion, and that task has been completed. Yet American forces are not leaving, and will not leave. The killing of our troops will continue because of people like Kashid Ahmad Saleh. All Hussein’s capture did for Saleh was remove from the table the idea that he was fighting for the dictator. He is free now, and the war will begin in earnest.

The dying will continue because America’s presence in Iraq is a wonderful opportunity for a man named Osama bin Laden, who was not captured on Saturday. Bin Laden, it has been reported, is thrilled by what is happening in Iraq, and plans to throw as much violence as he can muster at American forces there. The Bush administration spent hundreds of billions of dollars on this Iraq invasion, not one dime of which went towards the capture or death of the fellow who brought down the Towers a couple of years ago. For bin Laden and his devotees, Iraq is better than Disneyland.

For all the pomp and circumstance that has surrounded the extraction of the Iraqi dictator from a hole in the ground, the reality is that the United States is not one bit safer now that the man is in chains. There will be no trial for Hussein, at least nothing in public, because he might start shouting about the back pay he is owed from his days as an employee of the American government. Because another former employee of the American government named Osama is still alive and free, our troops are still in mortal danger in Iraq.

Hussein was never a threat to the United States. His capture means nothing to the safety and security of the American people. The money we spent to put the bag on him might have gone towards capturing bin Laden, who is a threat, but that did not happen. We can be happy for the people of Iraq, because their Hussein problem is over. Here in America, our Hussein problem is just beginning. The other problem, that Osama fellow we should have been trying to capture this whole time, remains perched over our door like the raven.

During the wall-to-wall TV coverage of this event, reports of a large explosion in Baghdad managed to filter through. Mayhap the Iraqi people are marking the occasion with some celebratory suicide car bombings? So it goes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you, Mr. Pitt!
Your perspective, as always, is well-reasoned. Perhaps this post will serve to calm a few hearts.

:hi:
dbt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
53. THANKS FOR A THOUGHTFULL POST

It is rare to have a thoughtfull post rather than careless
ranting. I am fairly new to this board and this is a nice surprise.

Which Candidate do you support in the primaries?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. Amen! Brother Pitt. Glad to see you n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. A picture is worth a thousand questions
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. *kick*
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
5. Gee, do I feel stupid.
I was going to suggest that this post was so good it should be published. Then I looked at the name of the poster...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
warrior1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Thank Jeebus
Your on our side. Never sell your soul.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
6. One of our machines broke, we had to go in and remove it.
Yours,

Right Wing Diplomacy
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'm having a Panama/Bush deja-vu
The parallels are, well, obvious

Former CIA operative turned "enemy/thug" of the U.S. captured after a one-sided invasion of the country, president named Bush.

I guess Saddam and Noriega will be playing backgammon in some prison for years to come.

And, like in Panama, the Bush in charge will get away with it 100%
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
43. at least they get paid retirement n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
8. great post!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BigBigBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
9. Will
A great post. I don't always agree with you, but this one was top notch.

I do think the Left's response should also focus on the quick turnover of Saddam to an international body of justice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
44. um. that one's too easy ..
"they" didn't help get him, "they" don't get contracts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kanola Donating Member (392 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
11. Very well stated and agree with you 100%
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MarkTwain Donating Member (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. Agree completely, but don't you think....
... that this changes, substantially for at least the immediate term, the focus of the Democratic primary?

Moreover, it charges the Democractic party to act responsibly on behalf of itself and the country in selecting a candidate who can truly, without prior negative baggage in the military arena as well as other political arenas, do battle against the incumbent?

This morning was one big wake up call from the event of earlier this week.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. I think that remains to be seen
The capture of Hussein, as stated above, does not end this war. Dean's position will likely remain strong for two reasons: He can point to the continued chaos as clearly as he did yesterday, and his campaign has this incredible instant-reaction capability that has not done them wrong yet. As for the others, how this plays out over the next month remains to be seen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. that's true, and I don't think Bush will capitalize on the capture to
secure international cooperation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Not if the dying continues.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
farmbo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
13. Inspired, as always...and ripping fast!
Thanks for weighing in...

DU's been off our feed for the past four hours.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
14. Precise summation of the situation, Mr. Pitt. Thank you
Is it available at truthout.com? I would like very much to forward link to this piece and TO to a whole bunch of people who are finally waking to realities.

Your voice, reasonable and accurate as always, is the best one for putting this all in good light.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. It'll be up tonight around 8pm ET
Don't link to this one, because it might change between now and then.

Thanks. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Thanks, will. Hey, even your rough drafts are fine!
upon hearing the news this morning, my sister responded "They caught Santa Clause". I am sure Rove thinks so....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
15. awesome!
if you could work in the Secret Police being brought back would only serve to underscore our true motives in iraq.

Bush Lied, AGAIN re: Iraqi Secret Police' aka the Mukhabarat

"The state of fear, secret police and oppression has gone forever," said a jubilant Pachachi, a former foreign minister before Saddam came to power.

"I call on the Governing Council to declare this a national holiday," he added.



bush pretty much just said the same thing.

but lookie what i found on the internet...

Dec. 5, 2003
Iraqis plan to revive Mukhabarat
By MATTHEW GUTMAN
BAGHDAD

BAGHDAD – Several of the most powerful parties in the Iraqi Governing Council plan to resurrect the Mukhabarat intelligence service, Saddam Hussein's most brutal instrument of state terrorism, in a push to rout the Ba'athist-led terrorist network, The Jerusalem Post has learned.

Saddam's Mukhabarat is largely held responsible for the disappearance and execution of about 780,000 Iraqis.

more...
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1070512329363



peace
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
56. They know how to deliver the goods
On December 5, the handpicked Iraqi Ruling Council indicated it plans to revive Mukhabarat.

"We will use their own dogs to hunt them down," exclaimed Nabil al-Musawi, deputy president of the Iraqi National Congress and the party's chief of security. "To think that I am supporting this idea surprises even me. But we have to be realistic... If I have to deal with the devil for short-term gain for the sake of my people, then I will."

http://www.counterpunch.org/nimmo12102003.html


On the streets, the conflict played out more openly and bloodily this fall. On a Monday night in November, a white station wagon pulled up to a roadside cigarette stand owned by Shakir Muhammad, a former officer in Mr. Hussein's Mukhabarat. Three masked men hopped out and shot him dead. "His face was all in blood," said one witness, Abu Asad. "They targeted his face."
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20031214/ZNYT03/312140464
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
16. Very well said.
The capture of Saddam (or one of his lookalikes) doesn't make me feel safer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Military Brat Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
19. Thank you for articulating my sinking feeling of dread ...
Waiting for the other shoe to drop.

:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sistersofmercy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
22. Will, thank you so much, you tapped into the other side of my feelings
today. Incredible writing, thanks again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
23. I think you mixed up your "real world" and fictional versions:
The streets of Baghdad were thronged on Sunday with mobs of Iraqi people celebrating the final removal of a despot who had haunted their lives since 1979. Their joy was utterly unfettered

I watched the tight shots on CNN this morning and there were no more than fifty obviously staged demonstrators. Cameras did not pan, or pull back. One guy in a beige jacket could be seen directing the "demonstrators" on where to stand.

It was very similar to the "throngs" who pulled down the saddam statue.

Throngs? I think not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #23
33. I watched the "throngs" on a wide shot on Link: 50-60 tops.
They were waving huge pictures of somebody around, too. Couldn't figure out who it was, but it reminded me of Ayatolla Komani(sp).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Roon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #33
40. Saw those portraits also..
and like you, also reminded me of the Ayatolla Komani
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
25. Nice work
This was a much more eloquent version of my thoughts upon waking this morning. I was up really late last night and only stumbled out of bed around 11:45 this morning. I turned on the tv and my initial reaction was "what the fuck?" followed closely behind by "that's nice...but where's Ossama?" :-) I like your version better.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
26. Thank you for saying what no one else will
As always, right on target!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
27. Very good, Will
Those of us who opposed the invasion did so in spite of our feelings about Saddam, not because of them.

What will need to be stressed in the coming weeks and months is:
  • Saddam's capture does not justify colonialism;
  • Bush's cronies are still profiting from the war at the expense of the Iraqi people;
  • Rhetoric to the contrary, Bush's plans for Iraq do not include bringing democracy to that country;
  • The Iraqi people are resisting occupation and not necessarily supporting a return to Baathist tyranny;
  • The Iraqi people have a natural right to determine their own future and to benefit from the bounty of their land's resources.
This does not change the the fact that the invasion was justified by lies or that the Bushies are thieves. The Bushies have no credibility to govern Iraq in the name of the Iraqi people. All contracts awarded by the Bush junta or the colonial regime in Baghdad should be cancelled; all sales of Iraqi assets approved by the colonial regime should be nullified; all debt incurred by the colonial regime on behalf of the people should be declared odious.

To say that Saddam's capture somehow justifies Bush's colonialism is to fall for the false dichotomy that the Bushies have been pushing ever since their lies about WMDs and assoiciations with terrorists were exposed. Let's not fall for that trick now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Woodstock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
28. Are you publishing this somewhere?
I'd like to see this getting hits on Google News instead of the "Dean Experiments on Children" trash.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. truthout.org tonight.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
silverlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
29. Wonderful...
And so true. Thank you!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
windansea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
31. Nice theory Will...but
are you convinced Osama is still alive? While there is no proof he is dead...he hasn't made any convincing video tapes lately...why not?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. Newsweek seems to think he is still alive.
Bin Laden’s Iraq Plans

At a secret meeting, bin Laden’s reps give bad news to the Taliban: Qaeda fighters are shifting to a new front

U.S. troops in Afghanistan may face less resistance as Qaeda leadership diverts fighters to Iraq

By Sami Yousafzai, Ron Moreau and Michael Hirsh

Newsweek

http://msnbc.msn.com/Default.aspx?id=3660179&p1=0

Dec. 15 issue - During the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, three senior Qaeda representatives allegedly held a secret meeting in Afghanistan with two top Taliban commanders.

The confab took place in mid-November in the remote, Taliban-controlled mountains of Khowst province near the Pakistan border, a region where Al Qaeda has found it easy to operate—frequently even using satellite phones despite U.S. surveillance.

At that meeting, according to Taliban sources, Osama bin Laden’s men officially broke some bad news to emissaries from Mullah Mohammed Omar, the elusive leader of Afghanistan’s ousted fundamentalist regime. Their message: Al Qaeda would be diverting a large number of fighters from the anti-U.S. insurgency in Afghanistan to Iraq. Al Qaeda also planned to reduce by half its $3 million monthly contribution to Afghan jihadi outfits.

...more...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
windansea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. not exactly proof he's alive
If he's really alive and wants to rally Al Quedas into Iraq, a CURRENT video of him saying this makes sense no?

Why has Al Queda only released obviously old video with only voiceovers? Reports of meetings of Al Queda operatives saying "THE SHEIK SAID THIS OR THAT" don't cut it for me.

I think he's dead...






Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onecitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
32. This is all surreal to me..........
bush managed to successfully change the focus from OBL to Iraq. And the people of this country are celebrating their own ignorance and naiveté.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Room101 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #32
50. JFK used the term TWILIGHT TIME
Great article William …

We are living in the Twilight zone where irrationality and emotional unreason are the rule of law. Reason, facts and logic are deemed thought crimes. Hitler and Stalin wish they could have a propaganda system as great and all piercing as ours. A digital death star with its laser beams of manufacturing consent transforming its victims into patriotic zombies. In a physical dictatorship the leader simply marches the masses to war, in our electronic dictatorship our leader marches us to untruth. Chomsky was right, propaganda is to a democracy as violence is to a dictatorship.

2+2=5 and don’t you forget it!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
34. Thanks, Will.
I enjoy reading previews of what we find on Truthout.

Do you ever send any of your stuff to big newspapers? Would they print it?

I doubt if my paper would print it; a smallish, independently owned, hard-core conservative paper. But I sure would like to know that articles like this reached a broad audience!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
35. talk about "efficient" (not)
It took 10 months, 150,000 troops, nearly 500 dead, 10,000 wounded, 10s of thousands of dead Iraqis and 100s of billions of $$ for one group of US employees to locate another US employee


Doesn't bode well for the Plame treason investigation

or the Anthrax killer investigation

or the quest for Osama

or the search for WMD's

or the Enron investigation

...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
37. Will he spill the beans?
Is he going to lead us to the treasure trove of WMDs?

This was one of my first questions, 'were they in his pockets'??

Someone months ago predicted a 56% chance of wmds being planted by the coalition. What if now SH leads to their secrectly hidden location??

Like, NO ONE but he knew where they were? ya right .. get ready for that one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mikehiggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #37
46. How pleasant it is
to see others responding positively to this development.

What, indeed, are we to do if Saddam claims that there are no WMD's?

Can we torture him into telling our, I mean THE, truth?

Can we control his trial when, as in that chant of old, the whole world is watching?

I don't think this will have a bad effect on the Dean campaign, or on any of the others. I think the officers who allowed Hussein to be taken in alive, however, might well think about early retirement before they find themselves assigned to duty in Antarctica.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
susu369 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
38. Again, thank you
As usual, you lead us with your articulate thoughts. You are truly a gifted writer and leader.

:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
39. excellent, again
though you might want to tweak/cut the last paragraph. reporting I've been hearing regarding the explosions is that a truck with fuel cylinders was hit by bullets falling from the 'celebratory' firing of guns rather than a suicide bomb attack.

the final image of Osama 'perched over the door' is stronger, imho
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
littlejoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
41. Aside from drifting from your thesis statement,
and the fact that it was awfully wordy, we did not catch the wrong guy. We weren't looking for Bin Laden at that farmhouse. We were looking for Hussein, and it looks like we got him, unless he is a body double. Other than this, it was a flowery piece.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. Spare me that right wing Bullshit rhetoric
Yes, we were looking for Saddam there. But, what in the fuck happened to Osama bin Laden. You remember him, right? The reason we are "fighting" the "war" on terror?
Who gives a shit that we captured Saddam? Our intent wasn't to liberate the Iraqi people. The truth is, your average American Conservative couldn't give two shits about the opressed people of Iraq. Hell, they don't even care about the poor here. Conservatives are too busy kissing ass to the wealthy to even notice.
After all, as Governor Bush said in the debates, our troops should not be used for what is called "nation building". We can't be the world's policemen.
Face it, pal. This war was not about liberation. It was about WMD and 9/11, and nothing supporting either reason has turned up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
littlejoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. Pitt said we were looking for the wrong guy. He said it. I didn't
The guy we were looking for at the farmhouse was Hussein, not bin Laden. "So, in this particular case, we qwere not looking for the wrong guy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #41
52. exactly Will...it wasn't Saddam's men that flew those planes into the WTC
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #41
57. wrong guy-wrong war
when your're fighting the wrong war then you end up getting the wrong guy. Saddam didn't have anything to do with 9-11--even Bush finally admitted this, so why were we there? No WMD have been found. Isn't that the reason we were told...that it was an immediate threat to the US?


Nice try, but you can't wrap this capture up in "flowery piece" and expect EVERYONE to believe it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KFC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
47. No, he was the right guy
Obviously we needed to capture Hussein. And we still need to capture OBL.

The two are not connected.

This is a HUGE victory. Props to the troops.

I guaranfuckingtee you they are looking for OBL as hard as they can. And he will be found. Dead or alive.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
49. ZombyKick
:kick: :woof:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
51. I'm so glad you
posted this. My thoughts exactly and I don't see why this illegal war is not be questioned, especially with the lies that it was based. I have so many mixed emotions this morning, and most of them are giving me a severe headache.

This article reiterates what we ALL should be saying right now.

Thanks...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
54. will the show trial last until November 2004?
:nuke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
catmandu57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. This like all the other photo ops staged
by the dictator's handlers will go the same way, the chimp* will get a bump in the polls, then the slower witted of our populace will begin asking these same questions, and once again there will be a steady degradation to the bottom third.
It's more misdirection, smoke and mirrors to deflect attention from real bogeymen, real problems that they haven't any answers for.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
neebob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
55. Rats! I was hoping you meant George Bush. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-03 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
59. William, I remember when, in 1991, the Baghdad sky roared with fire.
I worked in public radio then during the evening shift. So I came home, turned on the radio just in time to hear Robert Siegel announce that an air offensive had just begun in Kuwait City and Baghdad. I flung my coat across the room as I instantly realized that the Sr. Bush re-election campaign had commenced with the first bombs being dropped.

As the war drew to a close and the last reports were coming out of Riyadh, Bush enjoyed sky-high approval ratings. We know how history dealt him defeat in the polls. Just as then, so it is now that we are a year from an election, a major bogeyman is eliminated from the field and we now have more time to pay attention to the same details that unseated the first Bush Presidency.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 30th 2024, 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC