Here it is: "Saddams' Capture could hurt Dean"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3710459/

In the short run at least, Saddam’s capture is very good news for the “hawks” among the Democratic presidential contenders such as Sen. Joe Lieberman of Connecticut and Rep. Dick Gephardt of Missouri, and not good news for harsh critics of Bush’s handling of Iraq operation, such as Democratic front-runner Howard Dean.

Now we understand why Lieberman is on the prowl... :eyes:

I'm just glad that msnbc is making this a political football, and not our candidates. Dean has made an unequivocal statement that the capture of SH is a good thing.

Clark is saying the world is a safer place.

They are using it.

are the millstone that will sink him to the bottom, never to be heard from again. You can't blame the guy for taking the opportunity, but he is jumping on the logical fallacy bandwagon. For instance, Saddam's capture in no way justifies this war. A war isn't justified just because we capture the bad guy. Sure, it's temporarily good for Bush, but it changes nothing about the moral dilemma he has put the U.S. in--fighting an unjustifiable, pre-emptive war based on lies.

What are they going to charge Saddam with? Crimes against his own people? He was complying with the UN before the war, last time I checked. He hasn't waged war on any of his neighbors since Gulf I. There are numerous regimes who are killing and torturing their own citizens. Take Sharon, for instance. Are we going to all of a sudden sever our support of these regimes and and bring these leaders to justice?

Dean is still right, and people are making the mistake of thinking the only thing going for him was his anti-war stance and Bush's failure's in Iraq. It was one of the more notable things that set him apart from many of the other candidates, but he isn't the one-trick pony people are praying for him to be.

The other candidates have no right to justify their vote for an invasion of Iraq by putting him down. He told the truth before it was popular. He is still telling the truth today.

If the other candidates do this, use it as a weapon, shame on them.

And Joe is trying to ride the new tide.

We'll see, but no way will I ever turn my support to Joe.

No way on earth.

First it was the whole left wing radical smear. That didn't stick.

Then it was the Dean is against Israel crap. That didn't stick.

Then they went on to say Dean wanted to raise your taxes. That didn't stick.

Then they started calling him a racist because of his flag remarks. That didn't stick.

Then they started calling Dean a draft dodger. That didn't stick.

Then they started saying he's hiding things in his secret Vermont files and he's EVIL for it. That didn't stick.

Now they're going to call him pro-Saddam and anti-defense.

We've got to make sure that doesn't stick.

I support the candidate who actually voted AGAINST the IWR, didn't fudge and waffle and hem and haw and equivocate, like Dean.

So yeah, I think I will still fight Dean harder than ever.

then yeah it will hurt him.I am no fan of dean but have to give him props for going against bush during the begining of the war and stayed on message when thethe statue was pulled down more importantly we need to stay on message about why the continued occupation is bad

sadam is immaterial to this bogus bush trumped up invasion. There is nothing that can hurt our campaign. WE are Rolling!

and Bush is no Churchill.


What we need to defeat is not Bush it is a propaganda machine. Bush and Saddam Hussein are not important.

I think this will ultimately hurt Bush more than anyone else.

If the anti-occupation violence continues unabated one of the coalitions talking points--recalcitrant Baathists--goes by the boards. Now that Saddam is in coalition/Iraqi hands, the justification for the remaining coalition forces loses whatever legitimacy it claimed at first.

Clearly, if the goal was to bring down Saddam and his regime, THAT mission is now uncontrovertably accomplished (Where's an aircraft carrier when you need one?). Why remain?

As the underpinnings for this misguided adventure in jingoism crumble things begin to look more and more like a bald-faced attempt to seize Iraq's oil resources, a charge the resistance has made over and over.

I think the all of the careers of all of those officers who's negligence allowed Saddam to be brought in alive are about to end.

For heaven's sake, he had a couple of rifles in that hole. Didn't anyone in the raiding party have an iota of imagination?

Think of all the medals that could have been awarded if Saddam had been brought down in a bitter firefight like his sons and that teenaged nephew were. What were they thinking?

I'm just reporting the news, mmm'kay?

Comments from the BBC Talking Points this AM included the thought that
among Saddam loyalists, he would be viewed as a martyr.

Among other groups, without the shadow of a possible SH return, they will now direct their full attention against the US. Aside from outside groups who have infiltrated the country, we have civil servants and ex-army who were jettisoned by the US and are now unemployed and disgruntled.

We have civilians who have lost families; the quality of life has deteriorated.

Iraqi callers to the program wanted a live, open trial. Several remarked on the potential for "embarrassing" info on US involvement with Saddam.
Most Iraqis, I trust, know about this and it's a sore spot and probably one of the reasons they don't love us.

As one Iraqi woman said, Saddam is ONE person. She went on with a litany of complaints about the occupation. That continues; so will our troubles there.

1. Iraq is a dangerous place and we need to bring an international focus to it.
2. Iraq needs to be guided by Iraqi's not Americans

Saddams capture accomplishes neither of these tasks.

3. Iraq has become a haven for terrorists, a place where al qaeda can kill Americans daily. That won't change.

. . . people who are occupied are going to feel no less occupied now that their dictator has been physically removed. I predict that the situation now will just point up the fact that it is the People and not "Hussein loyalists" who are rebelling and that a dictator has been replaced by an occupying army that is killing babies and children and bulldozing homes and crops.

It could help Clark, Kerry or Edwards, but Lieberman has so badly damaged his standing with the Democratic base that this event will not measurably help him.

It is exactly the reason Clark needs to be in the race. When a national security bomb hits the Dems, we need serious armor.

Dean and Clark have had substantially the same thing to say about the war from the beginning. But Dean has taken a point man position in the patrol. He was just hit.

Also, Gore's endorsement is now doused.

More than ever, Dems need someone to take Bush on national security. That's Clark.

....."When a national security bomb hits the Dems, we need serious armor."

And hit they will. With the frequency and the certainty of each sunrise.

In face of such bombs, we can't have a candidate who is so vividly vunlnerable on a host of ready-made Cabal attacks from the likes of Rove, et.al.

Unless that is, we want to lose and subject this nation and this world to another fifty years of wingnut, fundamentalist, GOP ideological prevalence and domination thanks to the true issue of this next election: two to three appointments to SCOTUS.

Underwhich your children, grandchildren, and probably great grandchildren will live and suffer.

seems the corporate media is following the script quite nicely

was Condi not with * ???
she ususally is

Bush Gets Good News on Several Fronts

December 14, 2003 01:47 PM EST


WASHINGTON - When national security adviser Condoleezza Rice told
President Bush before dawn Sunday that Saddam Hussein had indeed been
captured, she was delivering news that was good for the U.S. leader in a multitude of ways.

It will help Bush with a U.S. public increasingly skeptical of his
Iraq strategy and it will at least temporarily silence his Democratic
rivals. It may also help calm the roiled Iraqi people, many of whom
have been unwilling to embrace a new government as long as Saddam was
at large.

The war in Iraq that sent Bush's poll ratings soaring - and then
falling to pre-Sept. 11 levels as the postwar situation grew
increasingly dangerous - began on March 19 with a dramatic round of
missile strikes aimed at Saddam. They missed.

It would be only the first of many times over nine months that Saddam
would prove elusive.

Now, having Saddam in custody is likely to pay dividends for Bush's
presidency on a number of fronts.

~snip~

http://start.earthlink.net/newsarticle?cat=6&aid=D7VEB0B80_story

just a trophy. It might hurt him in the short term, but not significantly.

Gotta love that picture though.... "Bobbing for Weapons of Mass Destruction" :evilgrin:

ask ted :evilgrin:

of course the corp media nd vrwc will try to boil it down to the lefty lib who opposed the war in the begining to the forthright LEADERSHIP and resolve of * and his neoCON agenda.

my greatest hope of dean is that he will get down and dirty with the neoCONs and start lobbing some BOMBS we got against them like ENRON, AWOL, SAUDIS, WAR PROFITING, J. Baker, OIL CONNECTIONS, Energy Papers, and finnally WTF happened on 911... why NO reaction? why did wtc7 FALL? Selection 2000, e-voting.

if dean wants to ride the populous wave he has PLENTY of AMMO lets see how far he'll ride it before he swithes BACK to conventional wisdom and start tacking to the right after he wins the primaries - or even before

my advice is to read the clinton campaign speeches for a winning FORMULA

POPULISM/HOPE

that message can take you places if the momment is right, siezed then weilded effectively.

is dean ready to go head-to-head with the PNAC agenda? that is the only question the rest of the world wants answered and that is what makes this election not only HISTORICAL but CRITICAL to all our futures.

peace

What an extremely poor choice in words. Even Lieberman probably shouldnt be described as a Hawk.

Please continue here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=905055


Thank you for understanding.


DU Moderator