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How do conservatives justify their views on church and state?

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Bush loves Jiang Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 08:39 PM
Original message
How do conservatives justify their views on church and state?
"As the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen ... it is declared ... that no pretext arising from religious opinion shall ever product an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries....
The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation."
-- Treaty of Tripoli (1797), the English version of which was carried unanimously by the Senate, signed into law by John Adams, and translated into Arabic (the original language is by Joel Barlow, U.S. Consul)
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ithacan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. the GOP has been taken over by the "christian" right
so they don't have to justify it. http://www.theocracywatch.org/
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. see David Barton sites
He goes around the country giving lectures and showing videos about how the US was founded as a christian nation and that the 'so-called' separation of church and state is a liberal lie.

I'll check out some sites later that point out his misuse of his quotes, etc.
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Hong Kong Cavalier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. That's the argument I hear, too.
That this country was SPECIFICALLY founded on religion, and the freedom to worship it... :eyes:
blah blah blah...
They seem to ignore the countless essays and statements by the first presidents that say otherwise. But that's okay to them.
The truth is like a buffet table to them, they take what they want, and leave the rest to rot.
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arewethereyet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. the country was specifically founded on freedom
religeous and otherwise. Christian principles are visible in what was considered right and wrong but those don't differ all that much between any mainstream religeon.

Its a simple mistake for the poor dears to make.
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coda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. There's plenty of material (quotes, etc) to try and make that case.
It's just that you have to leave so much out to make it "work".
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curse10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. I once got an email from a republican congressman
name escapes me right now- said, we have to keep the church out of the government, not the government out of the church :eyes:
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wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Using set theory can someone explain what the hell that statement means?
n/t
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curse10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. wish I could
republicans are morons.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. They are not "conservatives" at all. They are radical RW
theocrats and have nothing whatsoever to do with traditional conservatism.
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. THAT'S IT EXACTLY!
you get the prize Jacobin! :D

The RWers in the GOP today have nothing to do with traditional conservatism. There will come a day when those two factions will have to part ways.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
7. How do they justify anything they do?
I mean, honestly? I can't figure it out!

How can they justify all of the hatred and greed?
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impeach the gop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
8. They justify everything they do because Dems don't call them on anything
Till we stand up and call them on their hpyocracy, they will get away with it. For example the 2000 Election. smirky and his "trial lawyers" sued to over turn state of Fl courts when they didn't get their way. Pot referendums, a state right, they overturn the will of people so they can profit off the drug laws.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. Well they will cite shit written by the founders...
My 9th great grandfather was a Puritan. One of the first things he did was get in a group with 8 other men and go try to steal part of Dutch-occupied Long Island to start an English colony...so much for peace-seeking puritans. A local Native American turned their asses in and they got booted out, going hence to found Southhampton Long Island...

So it has been virtually from the beginning the church and aggression against other nations have a long history.

The right wing is authoritarian friendly, most churches are also.
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
14. There is conflict in the GOP over this
Edited on Mon Dec-15-03 10:20 PM by RatTerrier
The 'old school' (Goldwater) conservatives are strongly against the intermingling of church and state. Goldwater himself even called Falwell "a pain in the ass".

The post-Reagan Republicans, on the other hand, have been in bed with the fundamentalists for awhile. They are very kiss-ass to the religious right.

But shoving Christianity down Americans' throats flies in the face of the 'less government' ideal.

On edit: Wow! Welcome back, avatars and sigs!
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