Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

What country will Bush pick a fight with next?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 09:16 PM
Original message
Poll question: What country will Bush pick a fight with next?
Which country will Bush decide to send more young men and women to go off and die?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
LittleDannySlowhorse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. North Korea would be dead last
After all, they can actually defend themselves.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Yeah, let's bully someone who ISN'T our own size--Syria
It's coming folks--especially if Dumbo somehow gets reinaugurated.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-03 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
17. So it may seem
If Bush wants a go at Syria, he will be in for a RUDE surprise. Their military is prepared for war with the IDF, and they are VERY up-to-date, loyal, well-trained and equipped, and have pilots that could easily go toe to toe with our own. The only reason we would win that fight is due to sheer numbers on our side, and nothing else, as they would put up a STIFF fight. That and I'm willing to bet considering how bad morale has been that ordering an invasion of Syria would prompt fraggins, desertion, and possibly mutiny.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shooga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. I disagree ...
.... that little italian whore barteramo on cnbc is drumming up the Korean war song already ...... looks like she had a panel of old skull and boners on her show tonight.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
VT70 Donating Member (132 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. None
I don't think Bush wants to pick a fight with anyone else, but I think that the neocons in his cabinet might prod him to attack Syria.

I think Bush had two reasons he wanted to be president.

1) He wanted to get Saddam out of power

2) He just wanted the title of President and the prestige that comes with it.

Now that Bush has done #1, I honestly think that he will just return to the stuff he was doing pre-9/11 nad push for a lot more tax cuts and corporation-friendly legislation.

Just my 2 cents.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Scott Lee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. You may have something. But lets not forget the real danger
that will last past Bush-hole. It's called PNAC, and is a Hitlerian blueprint for world domination and resource theft by the USA. It can be used as a guiding doctrine for future imperialist bent administrations, be they rethug or Dem (yes, we have our assholes too). The top priority for me, even beyond removing Bushhole, is to see to the destruction of the PNAC.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dirk39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. But will Syria be attacked before or after the next 9/11?
Edited on Mon Dec-15-03 09:34 PM by Dirk39
"The "catastrophic and catalyzing event" as stated by the PNAC is an integral part of US military-intelligence planning. General Franks, who led the military campaign into Iraq, pointed recently (October 2003) to the role of a "massive casualty-producing event" to muster support for the imposition of military rule in America. (See General Tommy Franks calls for Repeal of US Constitution, November 2003, http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/EDW311A.html ).

Franks identifies the precise scenario whereby military rule will be established:

"a terrorist, massive, casualty-producing event somewhere in the Western world - it may be in the United States of America - that causes our population to question our own Constitution and to begin to militarize our country in order to avoid a repeat of another mass, casualty-producing event." (Ibid)

This statement from an individual, who was actively involved in military and intelligence planning at the highest levels, suggests that the "militarisation of our country" is an ongoing operational assumption. It is part of the broader "Washington consensus". It identifies the Bush administration's "roadmap" of war and "Homeland Defense." Needless to say, it is also an integral part of the neoliberal agenda.

The "terrorist massive casualty-producing event" is presented by General Franks as a crucial political turning point. The resulting crisis and social turmoil are intended to facilitate a major shift in US political, social and institutional structures."
www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO312A.html
Hello from Germany,
Dirk
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. umm
He was doing that after 9/11 too.

And, I don't think he really wanted to get Saddam out of power. I think it was just step one to setting up a base of American-friendly goverments for his business ties.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. Israel wants to royally F*** Syria
and somehow Sharon has Bush by the balls. More than the progressive values we hold so dear, I want a courageous leader who will stand up to Ariel Sharon and eventually free Palestine. That will do more to fight Al Qaeda than any number of smart bombs ever will.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. Glad we're mostly in accord
PNAC wants Syria; the only thing that mob wants more than U.S. world dominance is the guaranteed security of Israel.

Like hell Junior'd ever pick on the French, even if there was a real reason: they've got a fabulous military and a very good track record. The last thing a weasel like Bush would do is attack someone who can fight back.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dirk39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. But it 's significant for the USA as well:
"This planned extension of the war into Syria has serious implications. It means that Israel becomes a major military actor in the US-led war, as well as an 'official' member of the Anglo-American coalition.

The Pentagon views 'territorial control' over Syria, which constitutes a land bridge between Israel and occupied Iraq, as 'strategic' from a military and economic standpoint. It also constitutes a means of controlling the Iraqi border and curbing the flow of volunteer fighters, who are traveling to Baghdad to join the Iraqi resistance movement."
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO312A.html
Dirk
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-03 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Yes, quite true.
Since we can't subjugate Turkey or Jordan, the only clear path to justify is Iraq. I still suspect Israelophilic Syria revenge as the primary motivation, though.

Hey, once you start conquering the world, it's just so hard to stop...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
anakie Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. the fabulous French military
let's see. 1870 Franco-Prussian; WWII, Indo-China, Algeria, Suez 1956.

He will more likely go for Cuba as a suck up to his brother Jebs Miami mates.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-03 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Dispute this.
They got decisively trounced in 1870-1 by a technologically superior and much more aggressive military machine; breech-loading steel cannons are much better than muzzle-loading brass ones, and a larger standing army always has a better chance, especially when on the attack.

The French Army maintained 80% of the Western Front during World War 1, and if you need examples of heroism, look at Verdun. Hitler thought that the French were the best soldiers in Europe; he knew because he fought them as a combat infantryman. You'll note that the Allies won the Great War, and I note that it's conveniently off your list.

The whole argument by wiseacres trashing the French for their military performance is World War 2, and it's one of extreme ignorance. The Poles were overwhelmed in September of '39, and the allies hadn't learned to counteract the combined-arms of the blitzkrieg when the Germans attacked France in the spring of '40. The French and British had no concentrated armor, and were caught off-guard and never recovered. They did figure it out and effectively counterattack, but too late.

Why does nobody ever slag the British for their performance in May of '40? They were there and gave no better showing for themselves. It was an awfully valiant defense at Dunkirk, and 330K men escaped, although largely because Goring was an idiot and the land commanders were restrained.

Still, the allies didn't figure out how to counteract the German combined arms, and from March to November of '41, Commonwealth troops got the snot kicked out of them by Rommel. From that point on (roughly starting with Operation Crusader) the 8th Army started began to sort it out.

Still the allies didn't figure out how to deal with the Germans, as the Russians amply proved starting in June of 41. Now, a lot of this is excusable, and the excuse is the learning curve. EVERY country got its ass kicked by the Germans the first few times they encountered them; unfortunately the French had to do it on their own soil.

So what excuse does the American Army have for getting an absolutely embarrasing drubbing at Kasserine Pass, Tunisia in FEBRUARY '43? Hell, that's almost three-and-a-half years after the Germans showed their tricks the first time. The only reason we weren't totally shredded and encircled was that Von Arnim had control of most of the best tanks, and he withdrew them from Rommel right in the jaws of victory. WE, the self-proclaimed geniuses of combat got laughingly humiliated when we first met the Germans and Italians in major combat, and we had much less excuse than our predecessors.

Little mention is made of the heroic and crucial performance of the Free French forces at places like Bir Hachiem in May-June of '42. The simple truth is that if this Brigade hadn't held out for so long, encircled, that the Germans would have taken Tobruk much quicker and been able to punch through at El Alamein. (The first battles at Alamein in July were decided by a hair's-breadth, and that was the last defense; if you get past the Quattara Depression, there's an open flank and Alexandria and Cairo fall.) The Free French forces and the resistance were tenacious, heroic and critical to the Allies' success.

The World War 2 argument against the French is ignorant taunting and nothing more.

Let's talk Vietnam: we got our asses kicked there too, lest you forget, so we can take that one off the table.

Let's talk Suez: that was just a completely bungled clusterfuck on everyone's part, more a diplomatic and political mistake than a military one. It was a command issue, not a military issue, and if you notice from my post, I'm talking about their military.

Algeria was an orderly, planned withdrawal. This was an insurgency fought with the understanding that the future was certain: they would leave. This is not a defeat.

Let's talk hardware. Ask the sailors from the U.S.S. Stark if the exocet missile is a toy or not; the Iraqis almost sank her with one. Ask the sailors from the H.M.S. Sheffield and the merchant ship Atlantic Conveyor how much fun it's to be sunk by one. The plane launching them in each case was French.

Let's talk special forces. Remember the airliner taken by storm in Marseille? Damn good job.

Professional militaries around the world hold the French services in very high regard, and their history bears this out.

Sorry to get so crabby here, but this is a ridiculous argument that I hear over and over again, mostly from right-wingers with no knowledge of history, and I hate it. Those of us graced by wide oceans to protect us don't have to endure an endless history of war, and it's offensive to the rest of the world to hear our crowing. In the two world wars, we sat it out and let everyone else bloody themselves, then we entered to beat up on the already exhausted and claim it as some kind of equal fight. For every death the United States experienced in World War 2, the Soviets lost about 65.

Back to the French. They've got a very good and integrated military and a damned good record.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lotteandollie Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-03 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. there's more to it than that...
I think the reputation the French has is well deserved. WWII is a good example. They were allied with the Brits and Poles. Yet when Germany invaded Poland, France sat on it's ass and did nothing to help out their ally. Oh, they declared war, but they didn't lift a finger to help Poland while it was being carved up...after all they had the Magional(sp)line to hide behind.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BackDoorMan Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. Columbia, Venezuela, there’s OIL there and drugs as an excuse.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
11. Cuba - the Fool Is Vindictive
Although Cuba ain't directly in the oil cartel thing, CASTRO is a pain in the ass AND an EASY pick-off, can be done ANYTIME, like, within 30 days of an Election.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-03 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. Not only that, but....
....If Iraq had anything to do with revenge on the man who "tried to kill my Daddy", then Cuba would almost have to be a target. You KNOW Poppy's biggest disappointment in life is that his Bay of Pigs invasion failed and Castro stayed in power. I'm sure Junior would really like to pull that one off before Poppy's permanent reassignment to Hell.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thebigidea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-03 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
16. heh
at that last DC protest, I remember standing on a bench with a Rumsfeld mask, asking an assembled crowd in Rummyese who they wanted to attack first...

it came out the same as this poll, 1) Syria 2) Iran 3) France.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gringo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-03 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
19. Venezuela.
Left-wing leader with tenuous support in a country with tons of oil.


Bush has proven that all he has to do is repeat "Butcher of Caracas" about 12 times a day for a few months, and the media and sheeple will be right on board, no matter how unjustified the conflict.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 01st 2024, 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC