Debating Conservatives

I often see posted on DU questions like, "please help me, I need facts about so and so because I'm arguing with a coworker."

- Don't enter into a discussion with morons without facts. If a DU poster can provide the info for you, you should already have it.

- Conservative Morons always enter into debates without facts and are trained to have you run off searching for documentation to prove assertions you know are true, but can't cite the evidence.

- Conservative Morons never sight evidence for any of their dumbass thoughts because they don't have to. Why? Because they have you running off to find evidence of your own assertions.

- Conservative Morons, to a person, run off and hide with their ugly tails between their ugly legs when some neanderthal liberal loudly shoves facts in their faces. I love being a retired Chief Petty Officer neanderthal liberal and I love it even more when some piece of shit conservative starts lecturing me about patriotism, because I know he will soon hate the confrontation.

- Sophomore High School Debate Rule Number One - IF YOU ASSERT YOU MUST PROVE. Please take this to heart. You are not the only one asserting, therefore you are not the only one WHO MUST PROVE.

- Look em in the eye, poke em in the chest, kick em in the ass. Lets all resolve to do just that for the next eleven months.

A great way to start.

I especially liked your last point :7

for the CITATION. Typing while liberal.

There are a number of good "patriotic" chatboards and political websites, but few have well organized reference sections. It would be nice if anyone who needed to cite references supporting their claim that George Bush's tax cuts are a sham could cite a single URL that has studied and documented this issue.

In fact, there are probably websites covering most of the basic issues out there - it's just a matter of tracking them down. It would help if someone would make a list of, say, the 100 top issues/questions and track down websites that do a good job of discussing them.

They want to assert things, question them. Meet their statements with questions, make them dig deeper, point out fallacies in their arguments, and run them in circles until they are caught agreeing with you. It works VERY well if you know how to do it.

Hi Chief!

I stay well-armed in this regard; just had a really fun time with two co-workers who were spouting the Faux line on 'capturing Saddam would re-elect the Deserter in Thief (which is how I refer to him *always*).'

I immediately began asking how this would re-elect Bush. Having had good professors in economics in my college days (after the Navy), I began dissecting and discussing the economics of the past thirty years, and made *them* admit that Bush's economic (I hate to call it this) "policy" is totally illogical.

I do this regularly to anyone who spouts Bushevik/Faux propaganda in my presence. I get very ugly about it very fast indeed, and so far, I win these 'discussions.' The fact I'm a relatively large dude with beard, looking like Joe Bob Redneck, seems to be as startling as anything else :D to the line spouters.

Smaug

You are right. Facts will fuck them up every time.

And, just what do you do with a drunken sailor?

Why, you put him in the rack with the skipper's daughter.

- Like you said, never assert. Instead, say "what can you possibly support about the neocons in charge?" That will give you the ability to challenge whatever is said.

- Facts are rubish...we're talking about ideology. Nobody would disagree that the Patriot Act, for example, gives more power to the government at the expense of our Civil Liberties. A neocon might argue that they trust the government...your response might be, "I think history has shown that when people trust power they are oppressed and abused."

- Stick to ideas that conservatives hold dear: your fear of big government and government spending, issues of freedom and Civil Liberties, how our tax money is being wasted, etc., etc.

PM me if you ever want to gangtackle some conservative morons some time

And I should've known you wuz a retired chief.

When I was in the USAF, we had this Chief Gibson, a hard bitten tough bastard who grew up two neighborhoods over from me in Philly. He took no sh*t from anyone, even the officers, and he had most everyone's respect.

I often wondered if he got so much respect because he was so damned tall and intimidating looking, at least 6' 3". But, lo and behold, when he retired, we got one of those newfangled "Corporate Chiefs" who was just as tall, and he was much less respected by fewer people. I'm guessing you know the type just as I'm guessing you weren't one yourself. Hell, they probably didn't even have those types back when you were in.

Anyway, I was just a 21 year old at the time, and when Chief Gibson left, my friends and I said, "There goes the last of the Old Timey Chiefs..."

Just wanted to share that with you, Chief...

I never considered myself a coporate chief. I like the "hard bitten tough bastard" description. Many of us had extremely large hearts and loved our Sailors. Maybe we invented tough love. I can just imagine some young sailor reading this and thinking back to his days of being "tough loved" by his Chief. No one fucked with my Sailors but me. And no one loved them more.

It makes you sound like you're in junior high.

Once I hear more than three lies, I usually tell them to go fuck off, maybe consider enlisting, or at the minimum to get the hell away from me with their jingoistic bullshit.

That can be rough!

I know that those guys scare the heck out of me. They're pretty darned vehement in their beliefs. They always get emails from buddies who are in Iraq/Afghanistan who are actually saying good things.

Most of the time you're dealing with neandrathals who keep saying, "Get out of the country" or "You're an Anti-Semite" and then there's the whole Saddam/Hitler comparisons with Nazi rearmament. That can be pretty easily shot down.

But the veterans scare me. I don't want to call them morons cause they served the country. But sometimes...well...

I have to make my case AGAINST the war. I like to tell them that peace is the norm and if you want to break the peace, YOU MAKE THE CASE! Sell me this war, because right now, I'm not buying! 3..2..1.. GO!

That usually flusters them or shuts them up.

However, as a moderate Democrat, I have noticed the attitude from many on DU is if it hurts Bush it must be true. I think the above post has some good ideas for debating PERIOD. To say that conservatives have a monopoly on twisting the truth and lying haven't read Michael Moore.

Please take out the naughty words so this conversation can continue... Pleeez?

Kanary, who doesn't wanna see this go away!

In Bezerkley, and other anti-war locales during the Vietnam era, there were numerous "teach-ins".... It was a great way to get good information, and learn to counter the REichwing propaganda. Methinks it's time for a resurgence..

We geezers did a *few* things right.... :)

Kanary

I am personally tired of it. Liberals at all levels of society are constantly on the defensive. Somehow, conservatives seem to set the agenda. I would like this crappy cycle to stop. Our points are never going to be heard if we play by the conservative's rules.

Maybe BOSSHOG should write a playbook for us liberals...good show sir! :-)