Is it wrong to be intolerant of intolerance?

Seriously, is it?

I find myself getting hung up on this a lot. Every single person I know in real life is a right-wing fundamentalist xtian. I'm a left-wing atheist. I don't fit in and I can't move out of the area. I'm too poor and too disabled.

As I find myself at the mercy of my extremely right-wing family, I get more and more angry. A few weeks I felt so bad I thought that it might be easier to just go back to being a xtian freeper, but I can't make myself believe in something. Meanwhile, my family is so rigid they cannot be reasoned with.

A couple of weeks a friend who had promised not to bring up the whole religion issue broke his promise and hit me with all that one way shit: without Jesus there is no hope. I told him there was no Jesus and he told me I had no hope. He did apologize, but I remember the words that hurt, not the apology.

I can resonate with the "I Hate Republicans" flash song and I really do think I hate Rush Limbaugh. My father listened to him every morning...ugh. I know why Al Franken had to hire people to listen to him.

My family are really radical. They are Republicans, not republicans. They are members of the 700 Club, the Christian Coalition. One is an Ayn Rand lover. I also feel these people failed me on a personal level. Mixed emotions. I love them. I hate them. If I can't get away from them I'll go insane.

Can you love someone whose ideals you consider evil? Can I tolerate my intolerant relatives? If I don't, am I any better than they are?

other hand, I am completely intolerant of those who tolerate intolerance that I am unable to tolerate.

The word includes a wide spectrum of definitions, ranging from mental aloffness to lynching.

People that like Rush Limbaugh and Pat Robertson are usually pretty far out on the bad end of the intolerance continuum.

:crazy:

It isn't really a measure of your beliefs on the political spectrum. She was a right-wing atheist. I am a left-wing atheist. There are also left- and right-wing Christians, etc. My brother (an Ayn Rand atheist) can connect with the fundy folks pretty well, still. They share a love of Rush Limbaugh. I feel like I can't communicate with them at all.

I will admit I cut my relatives a fair amount of slack here. It makes the odd occasion when we are together go a bit smoother, and I know that I am not going to change them.

However this is by no means required to feel good about oneself. My relatives know of my politics and ability to defend them. The subject rarely comes up anymore.

No

I've seen a lot of it here and I'm writing a letter to the Admins myself including an e-mail I recieved from a friend and a fellow DUer

People and others do consider "Evil" Ideas, but they don't espasically have to live them , do they?

before I try solving yours.

love is partly about ignoring faults. not always easy. always worth it. its a lot easier to sleep when you do.

not being smart but for me at least you either love someone or you don't.

that was pretty much the jist of differentiating between love and like.

For to intolerate intolerance makes you intolerant. Rest assured that to do otherwise is something that only people with saint-like qualities can do.

It is hard to be around people whose evolution is so different than your own. I would suggest that you do some breathing practices (nothing esteric-just an even inbreath and outbreath and stay focused on the breath) when they stress you out too much.

And know that not everyone in the world is Christian or intolerant of your views. You obviously are a deep thinker and one who cares about one's personal responsibility. I bow to these admirable qualities and wish you well.

"Why can't you love me the way I am?"

Their intolerance has, at times, cut me very deeply. At a core level, a fundy won't leave you alone if you're an atheist. They think I'm going to hell. They think finding Jesus would solve all my problems.

I "had" Jesus when the problems began. He certainly didn't make them any better. Many of my problems were actually caused by all that creepy Jesus shit. I was a fundy at one time so I can say this with impunity: Fundies are complete whack jobs.

Unfortunately, while I'm pointing out that the Emperor has no clothes, the elect of God are pointing out the beautiful fabric, the glistening jewels and perfect fit. No meeting of meanings, here. Martin Buber himself couldn't translate this mess.

Fundies and Republicans...they live in their own self-built fantasy world. You can't get in and they can't get out.

than no.

Guess I'm in the same boat...

we completely severed relationships with fundy family. My wife recently had a "Momectamy." Our lives are noticably better. No more challenge to our lifestyle by the intolerant ones. I feel sorry that you cannot escape them. It is a real test in humility and patience.

I've always gotten a kick out of people who claim to be open minded and preach that others should be open minded, but are decidedly closed minded about people who are closed minded.

I get lost in the language, but it still amuses me.

I've discarded religion and the far right. I've thought very deeply about every decision I've made along this somewhat tragic path. I can't go back to the way I used to be, yet the way I am now is unacceptable to family and probably 90% or more of my home-town population.

It upsets me when they keep bringing up God and Jesus. I look back and cannot believe I used to believe that stuff. I'm almost embarrassed because it shows (in my opinion) horribly flawed thinking. I can't even speak the same language fundies speak. They fit reality into their worldview. I use reality to forge a new worldview every day. If it doesn't fit into my current worldview, I will usually challenge it and follow the truth no matter where it may lead. It is a painful and lonely path. Maybe that's why no one else around here has followed it.

It just saddens me to the core that these people can't take off their Jesus-colored / Republican-colored glasses. Rigid dogma. Making reality fit pre-conceived notions. That's all they do. It must be so much easier. :(

If we do not tolerate intolerance, we become intolerant and therefore must be intolerant to our own intolerance.

IF we're only moderately intolerant of intolerance, does that make us more or less tolerant of intolerance?

I could be tolerant of intolerance if it were directed ot an intolerance that I also find intolerable.

I'm confused. I think I'll go take a nap.

You can respect someone while listening to their thoughts. But you're showing respect to the person, not the ideology. Intolerance needs to be roundly and consistantly denounced by people of good will. But the message of tolerance for other people's differences will only work if you model tolerance and acceptance of the persons whose ideas you disagree with.

It's tough, especially in an argument, to separate the person from the disagreement. Sometimes it's okay to say "I don't think we're getting anywhere with this. Let's spend some time watching the game (or whatever else yall have in common)". Letting someone you disagree with know that you unambiguously love them is a hell of lot more persuasive about the value of love than winning points in a debate will ever be.

This is an eight: 8 and this is a taller eight: 8

(Get it? "taller eight"? As in "tolerate"? Um, say it real fast.)

Hypocrisy. He reserved his harshest judgment for the religious elite who said one thing and did another. I think he was right. To me, that's the lowest of the low, because your whole basis for judging others is founded on a lie.

So, I don't have a problem with being intolerant of those who are not tolerant.

I strive to not be a hypocrite, but I often fail...hence this thread. I am asking, "Is it hypocritical to be intolerant of the intolerant?" That's the crux of the conundrum.

When confronted with their thinly-veiled hate, some intollerant right wing folks like the ones you describe try to hit us with this crap. After all, how can libruls fault good god fearin' folk's hatred when they hate just as much? Its crap. If there was no intollerance of anything, we'd be living in anarchy.

I have a lot of nuts in my family too. My aunt and uncle are self-appointed crusaders for capital t Truth and capital m Morality. This Truth and Morality they crusade for, however, is so narrow, warped and hateful that if I did not hear it ad nauseum, I would think it funny.

I do not see much of that part of my family any more because all they care to talk about is the superiority of their religion and extreme right-wing views. I know that the issue is not mine; they have alienated others in the family who do not accept their beliefs whole cloth. My heart goes out to you, LadyHawk. I would hate to be at the mercy of such vultures.

I'm 47 and spent about ten years on the west coast and left them in Texas. It was the best time of my life at that point because I was able to find me; heal emotionally, spiritually and mentally; and mature.

Until that time I thought I would go insane because I was just so different and opposite of my family. I always felt that some space ship like dropped me off at the wrong house :+ Sometimes I still do :D

I still fight the anger, frustration, hurt, and other stuff that I felt when I was younger, but mostly when I'm overly tired or ave been around my family for more than 4 days in a row w/o a break!

I still live a good distance away (Florida now) which helps a ton. I stay no longer than 4 days max AND I've taken to staying in a hotel room, so I can leave when I'm tired and need a break instead of being force-fed nonsense from sun-up to sunset!

I think that as a person you have to set your boundaries of what is healthy for you as a person...as in draw your line in the sand.

Example: My parents refer to blacks with the N word and such things as that. My dad always downgrades and dismisses people of other colors, mostly blacks and ME people (they are sand Ns). They always have and always will and just can't for the life of them understand why it makes me so upset and say they won't change. Another example..they are Baptists and love Bush. I've fought them about this (racial name calling) for years and they know how I feel...they aren't going to change their actions or their thoughts. So, I've had to make a decision and I visit because I love them, but it doesn't mean I have to like them :+ I have no expectations about them anymore at all! NONE. They are who they are and I am who I am. Also, I've found that I do love them in spite of this ugliness, so I do limited visits.

Although they moan a lot about not seeing me so much, they also know in their hearts why this is and if they were serious about wanting to see me more then they would respect me enough to watch their mouths while I"m around.

At any rate, I am intolerant of their intolerance if that makes me a hypocrite then so be it. I will have to think more about this statement though because I do not want to be a hypocrite. In my life on a daily basis I do not spend time around people who are negative, hateful, prejudice, etc., because it saps me of my energy. It is a self-preservation thing I've found that I have to do in order to maintain my sanity in this world.

I guess it all boils down to this: In this world we do what we can to be a light to others within the boundaries of what is comfortable for us. Everyone is different. Some more tolerant and intolerant than others. Everyone has to stand their conscious in the end because it is our heart that we must follow not someone elses'. If I can't or don't take care of myself then I can't be even a tiny light in this world and then I've wasted even what little I've been given to share with the souls of whom I share Mother Earth.

Remembering to stand in Love, maintaining balance, and peace is your best option in this world. I have come to see that they miss the lightness of my being and the positive energy and love that I try to maintain when I am with them. I've seen more barriers break open this way than I would have ever dreamed possible. It isn't easy, but if they can know they are loved unconditionally by at least one person in this lifetime then I will feel good to have helped in their spiritual expansion by even one tiniest bit.

Please note I'm only sharing my experience. I am NOT trying to tell you what to do or how to do it :+ I wish you the very best LH accompanied with much love, peace and healing energy!