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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-03 10:37 PM
Original message
When Democratic Principles Collide
My profession is related to litigation involving nursing homes.

The generally accepted belief among progressive liberals is that individual rights to recover unlimited amounts of money from nursing homes is OK. I could easily defend that position myself. However, we know that long term health care is financed primarily by Medicaid and, too a lesser extent, Medicare.

The reality is that there are many multi-million dollar verdicts occurring on a regular basis. Many long term care orgs have filed Chapter 11 in response to unexpectedly severe litigation. Compounding the problem is the shrinking revenues from these sources.

My point is that, in effect, the flow of funds from taxpayer funded programs has been excessively diverted from patient care, to attorneys and claimants. I can personally attest to the fact that many of these claims do not, by any reasonable measure, deserve compensation in the amounts that I have seen.

I am conflicted with regard to my political ideology and this issue.

Would appreciate some guidance.
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PSR40004 Donating Member (144 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-03 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. In many ways lawyers line their pockets on the backs of us
I agree with much of what you say, here in KY we are facing many problems with the tabacco settlement which seemed to have only helped a select few lawyers get rich...

That said there is a need for lawyers and they do good in some respects, it's just when greed takes over a few can really screw over all of us who are just looking for equality.

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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-03 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Maybe it is as simple as that
But then why can't those abusers be identified and singled out for some professional censure. It just seems that it would be in the public good...and isn't that what we stand for.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-03 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. The Wrong Culprit
As you correctly pointed out, long term healthcare is financed primarily by Medicaid and Medicare ...

And therein lies the rub ... these programs are severely underfunded ... to place blame on a system that tries to compensate victims for being mutilated or killed by crappy care really misses the point ...

The system lacks resources not because of lawsuits but because it is underfunded ... nursing homes generally pay minimum wage to workers entrusted with the care of some of our most vulnerable citizens ...

i've seen this care system up close and personal ... it ain't pretty ... i'm against any system that takes the judgment away from jurors when it comes to compensating victims for their suffering ... to the extent that litigation drains funds from the system, i think it's necessary until we get better care systems ... not punishing those who kill or maim patients isn't a solution to the problem ...
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-03 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Agreed
And therein lies the rub ... these programs are severely underfunded ... to place blame on a system that tries to compensate victims for being mutilated or killed by crappy care really misses the point ...
so if I get what you're saying, the system is underfunded, forcing providers to hire sub-standard labor, and thereby deliver sub-standard care. Let's assume that you're right. Is that really going to change? And until it does, doesn't the problem get worse because of the multi million $ drain?
The system lacks resources not because of lawsuits but because it is underfunded ... nursing homes generally pay minimum wage to workers entrusted with the care of some of our most vulnerable citizens ...

i've seen this care system up close and personal ... it ain't pretty ... i'm against any system that takes the judgment away from jurors when it comes to compensating victims for their suffering ... to the extent that litigation drains funds from the system, i think it's necessary until we get better care systems ... not punishing those who kill or maim patients isn't a solution to the problem ...

You're right, its not pretty. My assertion is that the suffering to which you refer, is often NOT commensurate to the liability of the care giver. I have seen this up close, and it is very frustrating. I could give you examples, but I prefer not to do that at this point

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MontecitoDem Donating Member (542 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-03 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Private lawyers vs. bigger (ineffective) government regulators
When you provide disincentives to lawyers to pursue these
cases, you turn over more and more of our country to corporate
interests.  Sure the lawyers make a killing off it, but what
system would you impose that would provide an adequate
incentive/check to ensure better care?  Fear of a lawsuit vs.
more hands-on and rigorous inspections by the government?  We
choose to let lawyers be our attorney-generals in all sorts of
situations because the cost of greater governmental regulation
is too high.  And the cost of litigating against corporations,
including health care companies, is unbelievable.  Not saying
the system is perfect, but in my opinion it's better than the
alternative.


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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-03 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. That's one of the better arguments I've heard
I will think about that and comment later.
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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-03 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
7. Generally, you see the very big jury awards
in cases where the defendant's culpability was egregious. It's not a question of compensating the victim so much as punishing the defendant. This is particularly true in cases like the McDonald's hot coffee case where the defendant has had the same case proved against them dozens of times and has simply "paid the ten dollars" rather than stop the abuse.

Schools and prisons have been improved by being sued in a way that forces government to invest in them properly and not simply leave them to rot. Maybe this could be made to work for underfunded nursing homes also.
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