Question about who America Supports...

Alright,

I was having a discussion with someone about liberating Iraq and I didn't get to fully state my point because I didn't have the knowledge.

Which countries does the U.S. give aid to that has dictators who have been associated with oppression, torture etc.

This is just a background question. If you can provide links that would be great.

i know.

More prevalent during the Cold War, but I don't know if you could find a definitve list. Many of them were dictators that we kept propped up so that a country didn't "fall" to communism. Look in Central and South America particularly.

Although I was hoping for more of a definitive list.

My argument was this.

Now that the reasons for going to war in Iraq have changed from WMD to liberating an oppressed people, do we not find it odd that at the same time we're supporting countries who have similar leaders?

So that does make the "liberating an oppressed people" argument null.

Right to the South, the people in Saudi Arabia are at least as oppressed as Iraqis were during Hussein's rule. The Saudi royal family may not be quite as willing to kill their own people, but they do plenty just shy of actually killing.

This is my first post here, so a general hello to all.

Why ask the question about it being a null argument? The ranch was bet on WMD and none have been found. No 9/11 links. Nothing.

I suggest that since Saddam is in compliance as a matter of fact, we should give him a complimentary shower and shave, a clean new suit, and put him back where he belongs at the head of Iraq. :eyes:

Oh, well. So how do we get the soldiers out and not lose credibility? I predict silence in response to this one.

and the whole world knows it

it's too late for that, and doing the right thing re: Iraq is the ONLY way to RESTORE our credibility

They still need to get the army back in place so that they can defend against Iran, AlQaeda or the US.

International human rights groups have detailed instances of it's leader boiling dissidents alive, and similar examples of torture.

Of course, he's an "ally" in the "Global War on Terror". :eyes:

Pakistan would be another, off the top of my head.

I heard we are cozy with Uzbekistan, whose leader boils people alive

the Saudis are another

I believe torture is ok in Pakistan

we were kissy-faced with Afghanistan all the way up until 9/11

that's all I have off the top of my head...

http://www.policestudies.eku.edu/POTTER/International/stateterror.htm

Ferdinand Marcos & Saddam Hussein

http://www.isp.nwu.edu/~fprefect/politics/timeline.html
(this website is a plod, and some of it is a little hyperbolic, but largely it is spot on)

if Bush really did care about the poor and suffereing people around the world:

He wouldn't have opened up diplomatic relations with the Equatorial Guinea, one of the world's worst abusers of human rights. What do they have? OIL BABY!!!! Last time I checked, this administration didn't put on an Amnesty shirt.

http://usembassy.state.gov/malabo/

http://www.channel4.com/news/2003/11/week_3/18_guinea.html

And on top of that, they wanted to build a Air Force Base in Kazkakistan, who is up there with Equatorial Guinea. The Kazakistan turned them down, but the US was aggresively pushing for it. But why would they want to help finance a dictatorial regime?

Not to mention they just found oil reserves off the coast of Cuba:

http://havanajournal.com/business_comments/P1089_0_4_0/

Whether Cuba gets oil is contingent on whether they succeed or not. However, John Bolston, arms proliferation secretary at the State Dept. has gone "on the record" that Cuba has WMD

Now we find out that the Bush administration has been messing with Central Asian countries like Azerbaijan and Georgia. Maybe because it is right next to the oil rich Caspian sea. On top of that,they had corrupt elections as well, and the US didn't even care because the person they wanted remained in power.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/06/international/europe/06GEOR.html?ex=1071836352&;amp;ei=1&en=b6d9533de2b75326

And then there is Bolivia, who was literally being forced by the IMF (American puppeteer) to build a natural gas pipeline from the Pacific Ocean to their country. The indigenous population had enough of the corruption so Eva Morales took action and seized the government. The dictator president ended up going to Miami, where all good ex-Latin American go.

And then there is Venezuela. What the hell is the CIA doing in an oil rich country???

Enjoy.

That was the same exact post I put on this thread over here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=921026

Thanks so much.

the point of my post was that a lot of foreign policy in the Bush administration gravitates around oil and natural gas related issues.

for America is this problem.

Did you know that the US is the leading manufacturer of electroshock weapons? WHY? Do our police use them? No, it's for countries like the Saudis.

Pakistan is a dictatorship, yet is one of our #1 allies in the war on terror. God knows how many F-16s we've sold them. And to get their help, we've lifted sanctions on them and India (just to be fair) on nuclear and missile testing. No wonder why both countries have almost gone to war 2 times since 9/11.

While Iran, Saudi, Syria, and many others may be the biggest sponsors of terror in the world, the US is the biggest sponsor of state terror. In other words, we supply the weapons that countries use to terrorize their own people.

Why is that important? I mean we can't really do much about it after we sell them right?

Well, it's important. This stuff might as well be painted red, white, and blue. That's how their citizens see it, and their citizens don't really know the GREAT things our country stands for. They see our country through the filter of their own oppressive governments.

In my humble opinion, of course.

on edit: I have a 20 page paper on this subject for anyone interested, somewhere, which I'm sure you're all not about reading. But I have things documented, for the original poster if he's interested. just pm me.