Fight, fight dirty, fight to win

I've been thinking a lot about the dirty tricks, media manipulation, and mudslinging the Republicans use, and have come to these conclusions:

The next election will see the Republicans come swinging, bare knuckle, no holds bared, with Rove getting nastier as the Democratic nominee rises in the polls.

Bush- We should follow the Democratic nominee's position. In my opinion, Clark is the man to take him on and will do it on his terms. It will be a strait up clash of policy, principle, and ability. Clark will win, and on his terms. I respect this and will follow his lead and urge you to also. I understand that you may disagree with just who that person will be, but who ever it is, we support that person and his/her position.

All the rest of the fanatical Republican lie industry- they are fair game. More than that, they are targets of opportunity. We must take steps to oppose, neutralize, and discredit them. We cannot have the apparatus of personal destruction in full working order or we will have a repeat of the Clinton years when we retake the White House. Billions wasted in fruitless lawsuits, scandal seeking the nth degree.

I will stir up, promote, and champion any way to fight them. Deception and misdirection are acceptable forms of warfare. They fight to win, and so should we. They constantly take the initiate and keep us on the defensive, they get to frame the debate, set the agenda, and create the tone of the media. We have to hit them at all levels, giving as good as we get. From Rove, to Drudge- elected, non elected, we fight them for our country.

The only exceptions I can think of to fighting them just as dirty are: 1) family. Family are off limits unless the family member's actions merit attack, on their own. Example Rush Limbaugh's brother would be off limits, but since he is a right-wing writer and commentator, he is subject to attach because of his own actions. 2) Race. Racial slurs and bigoted slander is the only other level that we should never sink to.

What do you think? Do we stand above it, and risk more years of their tearing at our ideals. Or do we fight to win?

of the Bush clan merit attack..

Republicans will use every dirty trick

billions of booty at stake here

But take up a direct confrontation with them and they'll wither like a rose in Death Valley. Remember Clark's interview on Fox where he put that reporter in his place.

"Don't twist my words!" he shouted and you don't hear any more questioning of Clark's patriotism.

kill you with a thousand cuts. How do you directly confront Rush, O'reilly, Coulter, Novack, Savage, and on and on and on, again and again, and again, with out only being on the defensive?

And right now, they are not saying anything about Clark becasue they are trying to shut him out of the media as much as possible. They are afraid of him.

talking heads. The major candidates fight one on one, we hamstring their machine of lies

Pickels raises millions for her goon husband. Thus she is a combatant as far as I am concerned.

And she is drunk-driving, boyfriend-killing, glass-eyed, fugly-dressing Stepford wife to boot.

is ....GERT OVER PICKLES ANYTIME (smiles)

!!

she is fair game. She is, indeed, raising millions for her master. She does it willingly without scrutiny. She is merely being propelled along by those who tell her, and those who tell her dumassed husband, what to do. Laura is really amusing and stupid as her husband. She is, indeed, an embarrassing "lump"

AS such, she deserves to be scrutinized. She is a fat assed, dullard of a woman, with a bad eye lift, who has absolutely no concept of world affairs or even of the affairs of the United States of America. All she knows is that she went on a couple of trips to "Europe" and was given "status" that she never had before and that she, obviously, enjoyes now, on our tax payer money--all so she could wear outrageous upholstried creations and horrendous gowns meant for a twenty year old instead of the late fifty year old that she is, shop on our money. George, apparently, never gave her that money so she could educate herself as to the various cultures in this world and what they mean, in spite of all his wealth. They never travelled at all. Too cheap.

She is a dope and she is really, quite a stupid bitch who has raised two equally as stupid, vapid, daughters. She was content to latch on to the Bush family wealth and sold her soul to them at the age of thirty, when she probably figured out that it was now or never and married the jerk. She may have, at that time, actually, been superior to George when it came to intelligence, but willingly gave it up in order to gain status and wealth. Watch them, those two daughters. They will reflect upon this manufactured woman's pathetic skills--as a mother she has failed the Bush family--and first of all, she failed because she did not provide George with a "son". These two daughters will be total, and completely unsatisfied, lost, and belligerant women--and the reason they will be so is because they do not have the intelligence to be otherwise-neither George, nor Laura, have given it to them-- it is not in their genes and who could care less? They certainly do not understand or care==they have enough money to not care. The entire family is quite dumb and intellectually below par. They and George and Laura have shown that they do not care very much about their own children.

I believe the Dems must not only counter attack, but come out swinging. You, I, and most other D.U.ers know that General Clark, or any other Dem. candidate can blow away bush on issues concerning, well, everything, but a lot of people know little but what they see on T.V. in sound bites and ads. So I say the only thing that isn't fair game are the bush daughters, and Laura Bush, unless they strike first. Our nominee should hammer bush on the awol issue, the Iraq lies, the probable knowledge that they knew something about 9/11, the connection between bush/cheney and bin laden, the worst job loss in many years, Halliburton and anything else that anyone can think of that's truthful. No lies though. Just the facts, but as I said, bring the hammer down and hard! And as far as limbaugh, hopefully he won't be a factor, but his drug use is an easy target and most certainly should be brought up, if necessary. It points his, and their, hypocrisy.

fan the anger between Drudge and O'Reilly. Keep harping on Coutler's Adam's apple, hit the machine at every level

Pickles is a vacuous chain-smoking beard, and the twins are body-piercing chain-smoking partyers! NO ONE IS OFF-LIMITS! Take no prisoners!

But why is she called pickles?

it is bare knuckles from now on.

It turns them off of politics all together, which could partially explain why only half the country cares enough to vote once every four years.

Turning off the voting public obviously benefits Repubs, as it keeps the turnout down. I don't see how it helps Dems at all though. Dems must present themselves as a reasonable alternative to the panting, snarling, salivating Repub attack message.

who wins the nomination

Clark has no political experience, none. Leading a military outfit, as impressive as that is, is in no way the same thing as politicing. He has no experience with domestic issues, which is what the Democrats need to focus on to win in 2004, and his performace on the stump has been mediocre at best.

I will gladly and happily work for and vote for Clark over Bush should he win the election, but I do not buy your arguements that he is our best choice just because he was a general.

We need to fight. Fox is winning a legal battle that says it is OK for them to lie and deliberatly distort the news. Every time one fanatical repub. talking head says something, ALL the others repeat it. A hundered voices all saying the same lies againg and again.

But we are not helping things by providing the media with so much fodder.

You play football in a football game. The object of the game is to win.

So we need to play the same game theyre playing. Otherwise theyre playing football and were playing tiddly winks.

using every tactic from their playbook...

It is great

A lot of people think a draft is imminent if Bush is elected or chosen by God or whatever and I think our candidates need to talk about this. We need Americans to be talking about this issue around their dinner tables and we need it to be in the backs of their minds when making plans for their children's future. All this talk about scandals and the economy and so forth is important, but no issue hits home like the draft.

More than fair game.

And that's the quickest way to provoke W into losing his cool.

I wish someone had the wherewithal to start regularly protesting father bush again -- the chicken suit would probably still work.

During the Clinton White House, the freepers would stand out on the street as close as they could get to the mansion and bang on pots and holler.

She is mother of all the spawn, after all, and has been playing dirty for a long time now.

They they have *not* taken the offensive in their battles. In fact, taking the offensive is a very popular Republican strategy, and they do it in the dirtiest of ways -- accuse, lie, distort the facts, etc. -- and the Democrat(s) in question must always *defend*, and they never get to put their actual ideas forward in a way that resonates with the public. They're too busy fighting defensively, countering false charges, denying the lies, and so on. From 1994 forward, Clinton was coming from a position of defense. He fought gamely, but nonetheless he was hobbled.

And consider what happened this year in California -- another legitimate election reversed by Republic money and muscle. The Democrats lost yet another *defensive* encounter.

For more than a decade now, the left has been passive, has turned the other cheek, has hoped that people will come to their senses, has believed that fair play and the law will prevail -- all for naught.

We must hit, and hit hard, and then hit even harder. I would love to be able to say, "Let's not stoop to their level." That's admirable, but it's too late for that. It's fang-and-claw time. Democrats are up against the likes of Rove, the PNAC signatories, Newt Gingrich, and a host of cold-blooded bastards. There is no wiggle-room left -- we are in danger of losing much more than an election. Our future, and that of our country and the two-party system, are on the line.

I am no longer listening to those who say - dear me! We can't fight dirty! We can't lower ourselves to their level. That just makes us like them. We have to take the high road.

Well you can take that attitude and promptly get your clock cleaned.

We have to face facts: These "people" (although sometimes it's difficult to acknowledge that they're in the same human race as we are) will fight with everything they've got, like street brawlers (where there are NO rules), and hit as far below the belt as they think they can get away with. They will stop at nothing.

Well, guess what - NEITHER SHOULD WE!!!!!!

The time for being gentlemen and taking the high road is OVER. I don't care about fighting an honorable fight because people will come to their senses because they'll know what's right and they'll wake up and the Good Fairy will come and make everything better. As the old saying goes...we didn't start this. But we can end it!

There will be plenty of time to change the tone and timbre when AND ONLY WHEN we are fully and firmly back in command.

If we don't fight to win, we fight to lose.

If we decide we must be the better person and take the high road, we're kidding ourselves. That'll get us as far as the folks who like to vote Green to "send a message." That message, by the way? "Hi! My Name is Loser!"

I say gloves off. Brass knuckles on. Just about EVERYTHING is fair game. And we'll bring Pickles and the Pickled Twins into this, too, if and when we have to.

Frankly, also, I think one of our targets HAS to be KKKarl Rove. Our guys not only have to fight, they have to out-think folks like him, too.

And, okay, fine, they've got Rush, they've got Vanity, they've got Michael Savage, they've got Ollie North. WOW. What a cavalcade of crap-muffins! So you gonna just look at them and give up?

What do you suppose David did when Goliath came over the hill?

never let up on them, dont give them any breathing room, dont show them any mercy, for surely they will yield none to us.

attack them everywhere, with everything we have.

bush's kids are drunks? point out his family values.

the gop has scores of their elected officals indicted or on the way to jail? attack them as traitors of the pubic trust.

the gop are killers ? mention it.

when the day comes where bush has to say to the american people.."i am not a liar," that is the day when the democrats can win.. push this issue, in the media every day, every night.

dont let up on his mistatements, about how japan has been a US ally for 100 years, for paying china millions of dollars to get our air force plane back, for his brother receiving a million dollars from the son of the chinese premier to gain access to bush in the white house, for putting sick and ill veterans back on the street with no VA benfits, for poisoning the water we drink, and the air we breath, for losing 3 million jobs, and those that have been created are of incomes less than those lost.

attack, attack, attack.

never let up. not for an instance.

Remember: You never see ads for laundry soap, Jello, and the newest movie release - only once, do you? You see it multiple times, in multiple forms, and EVERYWHERE.

And guess what - that's what we have to do.

I know I nag on this, but every time I see a post that bemoans everything we're up against, I feel the need to remind, and yes, be an obnoxious nag. We MUST keep writing letters to the editor. We MUST keep trying to phone in to talk shows. We MUST keep phoning in complaints to TV news departments. Radio, too. You JUST HAVE TO NAG-NAG-NAG! We MUST keep using those memes and slogans, pound-pound-pound 'em in until they seep in deep: Republi-CONS and Republi-CON-ARTISTS and Republi-CON MEN and CON JOBS. The Party of Cain. The Party of Pirates.

Repeat after me, loudly and frequently, WE HAVE CRIMINALS IN THE WHITE HOUSE. WE HAVE WAR PROFITEERS IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

Take Back the Media has great resources for email/snail mail addresses, fax numbers and phone numbers. EVERY TIME you see a column, op/ed piece or report online that has the writer's contact info, EMAIL THEM!!!!!! I started spreading "The Silenced Majority" around, to people, including reporters and email pals of mine who write letters regularly. One reporter actually wrote me back saying she liked that phrase, and a friend of mine started using it in letters he wrote. POUND-POUND-POUND!!!

And - YES, it is vital to seize the initiative. I watched a martial arts documentary about samurai warfare and the clear message was (and the overriding philosophy of samurai combat was) to strike first. STRIKE FIRST. FORCE THE ENEMY TO REACT. THEN STRIKE AGAIN. ALWAYS STRIKE FIRST. FORCE THEM TO RESPOND, OR REACT, OR DEFEND, OR DENY. It's like "when did you stop beating your wife?" Maybe the accusee never in a million years would even think of such a thing. DOESN'T MATTER! The idea has been planted. The perception IS out there, and very subtly and insidiously, it sticks. And then they HAVE to respond, even if it's only "I'm not going to dignify that comment with a response." Doesn't matter. It's planted anyway.

PERCEPTION IS EVERYTHING!!!!

to get there. That's it. Keep it siple, don't make it nasty, just point out the deficiencies, why we're right, the fact that we actually have a vision for america, and the specific plan to get there. Now, not every candidate has that. Dean is close, Kucinich better...

And they just might want to if the lie comes from our side.

Good thing we don't have to lie to win.

Let's run the dirty SOBs down and smash them into the dirt at our feet. The media won't do it, the party is having a hard time doing it, so WE will do it! We need to challenge them on every level we can, hand out pamphlets and leaflets, heckle Bush at public appearances, don't let him or any of his bitches go ANYWHERE without a 'bodyguard' of protesters. We have to be in their faces with the truth and show no mercy. When they get on the defensive, they will slip, fall, and never rise again.

Why do we seem to have so many Sean Hannitys, and Rush Limbaughs, and so few on our side?

I have been listening to these people. It's not easy but I've been doing it just so I can get to know the enemy. They're going berserk lately, claiming vindication of Bush at every turn. They're already proclaiming him a "great" president, comparing him to Reagan.

They talk of their constituency as "values-based". I suppose that means we have no values?

They do seem to be winning the war against "the mainstream media". Someone please tell me I'm wrong. And they come on so strong about how right, er, correct, every piece of the right-wing agenda really is. Their dialogue does seem to be moving the center rightward, or is that just my misperception?

I keep thinking about Eugene Ianesco's "Rhinoceros". Is everyone really turning into a rhinoceros, or have I been listening too much to these morons?

How do we counter this? It seems to me that we're more likely to consider their perspective than they are to consider ours. Most people are going to gravitate toward the center, I think. But as we gravitate toward the center, they're staying put. Everything they say is correct, and everything we say is evil and wrong. Again, this seems to be working against our perspective by shifting the political spectrum their way.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

These Dems got just as mean and nasty as they had to be - and fought just as hard as any Repukes!

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not the content.