Desperate Iraqi Women Exchanging Sexual Favors with Team Exxon?

A friend told me about some Iraqi women who visited the U.S. and claimed that Iraqi women were exchanging sexual favors with U.S. troops in order to get money to feed their kids. He couldn't remember any details, but it isn't hard to believe. Has anyone heard anything more specific?

How could that be? According to many people, it's just a private matter between two consenting adults. (sarcasm on)

Seriously, I would be surprised if this weren't happening. My father was a soldier who used prostitutes and I know it is common in the military and also that it damages families.

because it is. Also, if woman has the right to abort a kid based on privacy rights, why shouldn't she charge money for what she puts in her vagina behind closed doors?

It is a private matter, it's sad that they have to sell their bodies, but it's a fact of life and banning it doesn't make it go way. Just so you have an idea: Alchool and gambling damage way more families than prostitution.

On edit: if you think it's immoral, don't prostitute yourself or don't frequent one. It's very simple. Jailing and humiliating people based on what me or you think it's moral or immoral is not the way to go.

or outsource! After all, it's just the free market at work. Women are just resources that we must use efficiently, right? :mad:

let's jail those who do things we don't agree with. The Taliban had it going nicely, to bad we stopped it. Prostitution is legal in most Westerm Europe by the way.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1112085,00.html

That's Western Europe.

tell me legalizing brothels was the cause of that. I bet you if brothels weren't legal, you'd see a lot more cases like that. Supply and demand applies to sex too.

Did I miss the post demanding poor women be jailed for prostitution? Typical Libertarian Strawman. *yawn*

anywhere else but a few counties in nevada? Thank you!

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

ok

but if they or their children are literally starving, then I could see how they might compromise their moral integrity by - yuck - sleeping with Americans.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

overnight.

Remember Vietnam? Women there sold themselves to our GIs for an apple from the PX.

Why do you think the Bushies want to close bases in Germany and move them to Poland, Romania and Bulgaria, aside from the childish spat with the Germans and enriching Bechtal/Halliburton?

Sexual slaves are rampant in those countries. Wolfie can't wait.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

the pornography business and prostitution that has sprung up in Iraq since we invaded. I don't have a link but if anyone is interested a google might get it for them.

Philippines comes to mind too. Whenever you have thousands of 19 year old soldiers or guys with money the sex trade will build around them. Like it or not, it's the truth, and even married guys cheat.

The wonders of the "Free Market" in action. Starve them, use them, discard them.

Although I'm sure there is some prostituion happening in Iraq, there is no way the common Iraqi Muslim woman would damn herself to an eternity in hell. The food situation is not that bad over there, pre-war, mid-war, or post-war.

but you are MUCH TOO FAR AWAY, in all respects, from "Ground Zero" to have ANY idea what is really going on there from day to day.

I was just there 3 months ago. When was the last time you were in Iraq?

Last week's Newsweek has an article on it.

I am not trying to provide a biased opinion. I'm just telling you what I saw and that was not an Iraqi woman standing on every corner looking for johns or people starving for lack of food. I have not seen the Newsweek article, but I'm sure that they were actively searching out things to write about. I'm not saying prostitution does not exist either. It has existed in the Baghdad area even before the war. How do I know? I've talked to Iraqi exiles and Iraqi citizens who told me. However, most of the country is very religiously pious and would not ever shame themselves or their family in such a way.

Read the story. It's in the December 22, 2003 Newsweek. The title is "Iraqi Vice". You can get it on line if you register or I'm sure your local library has a copy.

I didn't see anything about Iraqi mothers selling their bodies for food.

LOL

Good point, but one that can be made about women worldwide.

Yes, it is worldwide condition and if women are treated as second class citizens in their societies they will have to fall back on selling the only commodity the own, their sexuality, in order to feed their children.

I once lived in a country that had legalized prostitution. Most of the "girls" were middle aged women with children, who were either widowed or abandoned by their husbands. Job opportunities for women were very poor, especially those without a university education, so they could do housework or work in the sex trade. You figure out which one paid more money.

Saying that you didn't see "an Iraqi woman standing on every corner looking for johns" proves there is not prostitution is ridiculous. That's like saying that because you don't see women getting beaten up in the USA, there isn't any domestic violence. You are not using reason, just spouting talking points.

You didn't see people "starving for lack of food?" Well, that settles it! All you have to do to guage hunger anywhere is look around and see if you see people starving. Do you suppose if you visited North Korea you could walk around and see starving people and come up with a scientific estimate of hunger in that country? Try Google: Hunger Iraq. I did this and here is the first link I came up with:

http://www.stophungernow.org/hunger_in_iraq.html

Saying there is no hunger in Iraq is just repeating a talking point. There IS hunger in Iraq and there IS proof on the internet, a few clicks away.

And, by the way, even non-pious, non-religious, non-Iraqi women don't want to prostitute themselves. "Conceding" that prostitution existed in Baghdad before the war is (yes) just another talking point.

I never said there isn't any prostitution. Re-read my posts please. And honestly, I don't find a problem with there being some prostitution if that is the by-product of freedom.

If you must know, I was very directly involved in the gauging of food supplies in Iraq among other types of infrastructure and supplies. I will believe my own experience much more before I believe a website titled www.stopthehungernow.org.

Christ, that is just an evil, sick thought. Women do not decide to be prostitutes the way they decide to be doctors or hairdressers.

Now, why in the world would someone dismiss a website named "stopthehungernow.org?" How about UNICEF?

http://www.unicef.org/emerg/iraq/
"Almost half of Iraq’s total population is aged under 18. Even before the conflict began, many children were highly vulnerable to disease and malnutrition. One in four children aged under five is chronically malnourished. One in eight die before their fifth birthday."

Or do you just dismiss any fact that doesn't support your view?

Please tell us what websites are acceptable to you.

who forces the ones in Nevada to do that? or the strippers or the porn stars? In most cases no one. Comapre that to the illegal sex trade.

Why they decide to becoem whores is not your business, you say it's humilating to have sex for $, they say it's humilating to flip burgers for $6 an hour. Who is right? They should have the freedom to become prostitutes if they wish.

sex industry then I hope that you are one because then you would understand the societal pressures that push women into it.

that's very simple. Why shouldn't they? Because you think it's denigrating to women? Don't do it for yourself then. Not to mention being arrested /humilated and being raped and beaten by pimps is so much better.

on edit: freepers say that premarital sex and definitely is bad /immoral, some catholics say masturabtion is bad, should we ban those too?

I would bet you that virtually every woman in the world would love to be guaranteed the right to NOT have to ever be a prostitute.

The average age of entry into prostitution in the US is 14. Average. And also most, close to 90%, of women who become prostitutes have been a victim of some sort of sexual crime such as incest or rape.

The average age of entry into prostitution in the US is 14. Average. And also most, close to 90%, of women who become prostitutes have been a victim of some sort of sexual crime such as incest or rape.

That's a load of bull.

http://www.hometownsource.com/capitol/1999/november/1104teens.html

I don't just spout things. I look on the internet AND I have worked with homeless and abused populations.

I don't just spout things. I look on the internet AND I have worked with homeless and abused populations.

You seem to forget that we've had these long drawn-out discussions about the sex industry before... to such an extent that you've also forgotten that I WORK in the sex industry.

Geez! Talk about spouting things!

We've both seen it from different perspectives. I'm the daughter of a john, the friend of women who have been in relationships with johns, and the volunteer who helped some sex industry workers who needed help.

Prostitutes and hookers bring deception and pain into many relationships, and deception is never good.

My husband is taking me out for some low-carb food...got to go.

Blame the "other woman". Nuff said. :eyes:

I would bet you that virtually every woman in the world would love to be guaranteed the right to NOT have to ever be a prostitute.

except for those women that don't have a problem with prostitution whether for themselves or the right for those that want to... which is quite a bit.

I really don't think so. Most of the (straight) women I have ever known were looking for a nice, rich, handsome guy to get married to. I have to be honest about the rich part even though I don't like the idea. I also know a woman who was destroyed because her husband left her and her three kids for a stripper. Even the stripper was looking for a rich guy, which he was.

Don't attempt to judge an industry you know nothing about.

Most of the (straight) women I have ever known were looking for a nice, rich, handsome guy to get married to. I have to be honest about the rich part even though I don't like the idea.

No kidding. Even non-prostitutes prostitute themselves to an extent, huh?

I also know a woman who was destroyed because her husband left her and her three kids for a stripper. Even the stripper was looking for a rich guy, which he was.

And this woman would have been just as destroyed if it was just a straight, non-sex industry worker that nabbed him out from under her, yes?

You see where this is going? In case you don't, I'll put it to you straight... it isn't the women in the sex industry that are the problem here. It's those women in ANY industry or no industry at all that are just looking for a free ride. Most sex-industry workers are WORKERS. They don't get personally involved in their customers to the extent that they get immersed in the personal lives of those customers and for very good reason... once you get personally involved, that's the END OF THE MONEY. And frankly, us sex industry workers already have our own personal lives and don't want to share them with customers... that's the prime reason we use stage names - privacy.

I'll say it again, but I doubt you'll get it this time either:
Being in the sex industry is a JOB, NOT a lifestyle.

women like guys with money? How many of those straight women have had sex for jewelry, trips, cars or promises of marriage? Oh, I forgot, that's not prostitution.

Oh my God! so the stereotype is true?? women like guys with money? How many of those straight women have had sex for jewelry, trips, cars or promises of marriage? Oh, I forgot, that's not prostitution.

You got it. Women have been trading sex for gifts, favors, security, etc. since the beginning of time, and it's not going to change any time soon. Sex for cash in a sense is the same thing without the lying, pretending and various other bullshit. Given the stigma attached to prostitution, I imagine that women trading sex for other monetary concerns other then straight up cash excuse it as a way to clear it with their own conscience.

the ultra-feminists here from Mt Olympus think they know better than every women. Let them decide for themselves. Some rather have sex once a day for $400 then flip burgers or kiss the bosses's ass for weeks to make that much. To each his own. All we have to do is convince the John Ashcroft and the feminist side.

Since you are in the industry :): what's (or what would be) more degrading, having consensual sex (for $$) or being arrested, jailed, strip searched, abused by the guards, inmates and having your picture in the paper?

and here we thought this place was full of liberals *snort* ;)

the ultra-feminists here from Mt Olympus think they know better than every women. Let them decide for themselves. Some rather have sex once a day for $400 then flip burgers or kiss the bosses's ass for weeks to make that much. To each his own. All we have to do is convince the John Ashcroft and the feminist side.

$400!!! Good grief, that's practically a freebie! I make that much per 1/2 hour just TALKING to a customer (naked, but it's still just talking). Although (sadly) it seems to be the going rate these days... some people just sell themselves short. All the time I see these women promoting themselves on the Internet for about $250 to $500 for an hour of "anything goes". They're stupid for two reasons: 1) they're selling themselves FAR too cheaply, and 2) they're idiots to advertise it on the Internet (they might as well just waive a banner that says "please come arrest me!"... stoooooopid).

Interesting note about feminists. There's two sides to the feminist coin: those that want so badly to be equal to men that they're happy to throw out their feministic upper-hand that actually puts them in a position of higher power and those that embrace that feminist power and happily use it freely. The former type, I believe, are actually throwing out the baby with the bath water, but they're free to think what they like. Most of the women I know in this business are very strong empowered feminists... the latter type. Every woman knows that they have power in their own sexuality, but some only choose to use it in personal relationships or not use it at all (personally, I find not using it at all quite odd... why waste a perfectly useful asset?).

Since you are in the industry: what's (or what would be) more degrading, having consensual sex (for $$) or being arrested, jailed, strip searched, abused by the guards, inmates and having your picture in the paper?

That's a no-brainer. ;)

For the record, I don't engage in consensual sex for CASH anywhere where it's illegal according to the letter of the law... for the reason's you described. Having an arrest record isn't worth it to me, and I can make BANK in the industry legally.

If you choose to speak for all women who work in the sex industry then I hope that you are one because then you would understand the societal pressures that push women into it.

I work in the sex industry, and for the most part, private_ryan is right. Sure, the street hookers are mostly in it for dope and need some help, but that's a very small portion of those women that work in the sex industry. Pretty much everything he said here is dead on.

And once again I am happy to report that I PERSONALLY chose to work in the sex industry and I'm VERY happy that I made that choice. This was after four years of college and two of law school as well as over a decade being a corporate whore for peanuts. I'd also like to point out that I was harrassed FAR more frequently in the business world then I've EVER been in the sex industry.

It would be really nice if those people that like to make biased claims about the sex industry actually WORKED in it so they can report with some semblance of knowing what the hell they're talking about.

I said societal pressures drive women into the sex industry didn't I?Tell me, honestly, no BS now, if you made as much money doing something else and weren't treated like an edible pastry by the "men" you worked with, would you chose the sex industry over a good paying and satisfying job?

I would not trade my occupation now for going back to some other kind of work. In fact, I OFTEN kick myself for not getting out of the corporate world sooner. Eventually, I'll probably have to go back to some sort of "straight" job seeing as there's a small window of opportunity to work in the sex industry successfully, as age is a factor. However, if I can go for another 3 years or so, I can retire quite comfortably on what I've already made.

Don't make the mistake of assuming that I chose the sex industry because of being harrassed in the corporate world. I worked part time in the sex industry WHILE I worked in the corporate world. It was the realization that I was wasting my time in the corporate world compared to my part time profession that finally made me quit the corporate world all together. There's a lot more to it then just money. I LIKE the sex industry. I know it pains you to imagine that, but it happens to be the truth.

I was not treated like an "edible pastry" all the time by the men I used to work with. In fact, many of them are still friends and a few are now customers of mine. There were incidents with some, like there probably is with most attractive women in business. My point there was that the incidents that I have in my current line of work are far less then the number of incidents I had in the corporate world, none of which go much past the level of a snide remark.

There were two reasons why I dragged my feet for so long in making the decision to dump the corporate life:

The biggest was worrying about what other people would think of me. I could give a fart in the wind about that now, which I'm sure you have probably gathered at this point. Which, if I may point out, is why I'm not particularly offended by your attempt to dump me into the stereotype pool.

To a lesser extent, the other reason was that I was unsure of my prospects at making a good enough living in the sex industry where I wouldn't have to worry about having to go back to the corporate world at some time in the distant future with a big and largely unexplainable gap in my resume. As I mentioned, working in the sex industry is a small window of opportunity much like that of someone in professional sports... there's no way for the average person in this industry to do this to the average retirement age of 65.

Next question?

all the good paying jobs that women do like being actresses or in front of TV cameras as news hosts etc. This is why society has to change. I'm really happy that the airlines can't fire their flight attendants anymore because they passed the age of thirty-five. Look I'm for legalized commercial sex. You guys should pay taxes and you should be regulated and you should have the protection of the law if you are injured on the job.

The country that had legalized prostitution that I mentioned on another post, licensed hookers to work out of houses, that had bars where the customers could meet the girls. The womens were checked for STDs on a regular basis. The bars were open to the public, incidentally, you could just drop in for a drink if you liked. Of course any woman not working there had to be escorted my a man (male dominated society). They also had the protection of the law, if some guy tried to hurt them. No streetwalkers or other kinds of prostitution was allowed legally as the authorities didn't want children to have to see this. This was in a Catholic dominated country too.

I'm an independent contractor. I pay more taxes then the average employee. I'm responsible for my own health insurance, and I get no employee type benefits such as workers comp or unemployment comp. However, I prefer it that way as I make far more money to compensate which I would not get if I was reduced to employee status.

Incidently, age is a problem in MANY jobs, not just jobs for women. Find me a male professional athlete that doesn't have to worry about the age factor.

As for the rest of your post, I agree. Prositution should be legal for those that wish to partake of it (since they're going to anyway), and it should be taken off the streets where it may be offensive to those that don't wish to partake of it or witness it. If it was legal, it would also be TAXED. The government could make a killing off of prostitutes that are for obvious reasons not filing their taxes... all the women at the Bunny Ranch, for instance, pay their taxes and I'm quite sure the IRS is rather pleased about that.

Christ, that is just an evil, sick thought. Women do not decide to be prostitutes the way they decide to be doctors or hairdressers.

Make a bet? Actually, many of them do. I know it rubs you the wrong way, but a fact is a fact.

Teenagers are judgement-impaired. Believe me, I have one. (a boy)

I do believe that a few mature, economically secure women might choose to be hookers--very, very few.

Do you have any statistics to back up your claim that many women happily choose the sex industry as a career without any emotional trauma or economic pressures prompting it?

What the hell do I need statistics for? What part about my WORKING in the sex industry do you not get? You think that that those of us that work in it don't network? Like we all have no idea what's going on in an industry we work in? Has it ever occurred to you that those statistics you're so proud of come from only those women who have been arrested or stupid enough to tell the truth about their occupation when it's known who they are? psssssttttt... prositution is illegal in most of the country. No prostitute with half a brain is going to admit she's a prostitute for the sake of somebody's statistics sheet unless she's been arrested. MOST prostitutes never get arrested in their entire careers. And those are the ones who are smart, do well at it and aren't doped up street hookers which are the vast majority of the ones that DO get arrested.

I have a suggestion for you. Don't profess to know about an underground world that you've never been in. Prostitution among ordinary housewives, students and others in various business professions is RAMPANT... the lowly street hooker is FAR out-numbered.

Too many children. We would probably be better off sending condoms to Iraq than anything else. Unfortunately large families are a cultural thing there. I remember one Iraqi asked me how many kids I wanted and I replied two or three. He was totally shocked that I wanted so few and started to brag about his 10+ kids.

One reason why children are vulnerable to disease/malnutrition is because unless you were a Sunni, you would not get the best medical care available. Basic medical supplies were not available to Kurds or Shia Muslims especially after the UN sanctions when Saddam severely restricted these supplies to put forth an image of suffering under Western sanctions.

his 10+ kids were supported and in school, rather than shot at or blown up by those funny yellow packages... The "talking points" in your second paragraph do not inspire a response. But YES, Columbia! Certainly it WOULD be wise in today's world to prevent "those people" from reproducing! What with that depleted Uranium all about, no electricity or clean water and bombs exploding hither, thither and yon!

Why do people keep calling things "talking points" to try and invalidate an argument instead of providing a reasonable rebuttal?

You are right about his 10+ kids being supported and in school and they are still supported and in school. However, that school is getting new textbooks that do not have Saddam propaganda in every sentence. And he is also now getting more electricity, clean water, and medical supplies then before the war because Saddam diverted resources to Baghdad while the rest of the country suffered. As for IED's, many of those are being set by operatives coming in from other countries to impede Iraq's progress.

Ok, which would you rather have? No prostitution and the risk of being tortured, raped, and murdered for being a dissident? Or a small amount of prostitution and the freedom of speech/protest/assembly without fear of reprisal?

whose tentacles reach real deep into my 'hood. Did the Ami DoD fund your trip? <intentional dig, forgive me> Columbia, I've NO BEEF with you- especially not USDA inspected- you've just arrived here. I can only say that what info I am privy to from my neighbors whom, I've held in my arms shaking and crying, contradicts what upon first reading seems to be a very supercilious declaration. Perhaps we can discuss it...

... next time somebody says how bad things are in Iraq. We *are* too far from "Ground Zero" to have any idea what's really going on there from day to day. Thanks!

Do you hear about bombings? deaths? riots? arrests?

We CAN know some things, but we cannot fully understand unless we actually are there. Remember Walter Cronkite's visit to Vietnam? He didn't fully understand until he went there. The Newsweek reporters were actually there, too.

Bush/Rummy fails once more

Apparently, these guys think of only the KILLING part/

HOW TO SHOCK
HOW TO KILL

Someone forgot

HOW TO HEAL

... but you can't have it both ways.

If we can't know the situation well enough to know that the food situation is mostly stable-- and all indications are that it is-- then it's special pleading to say that the bad news must be true because.. um, well, because we want it to be bad.

Let's criticize the war rationally, eh?

So I'm asking. Would you please say more? My point is Americans are so far removed from the atrocity that it is difficult for them to even believe, much less comprehend it, in all its spendid "Gory." Hmmmm... maybe I meant to type "Gory." What IS it with that "L?"

and I wonder if now, if I am becoming immune to the suffering of the people.

On another thread someone called it Bush Outrage Overload Syndrome.

You may have hit the nail on the head, yet again. Input OVERLOAD.

There are many reason.

Men and women will always "find" each other..

Poor women can see a soldier or American business person as a "ticket out" of wherever they are..

Muslim women are repressed , and they may be "testing" their new-found "freedom"..

"Some" military/foreign workers view the women as an added feature of their travel.

I don't think so. It became so when women became property. There are some interesting variations of marriage in primitive societies today that don't involve the exchange of goods or money. It's when the men are in control of the purse strings that women start figuring out how to get it away from them.

I guess everyone is wrogn and you're right.

"Start figuring out how to get it away from them"...by becoming whores and using sex as a bait?

are you so high up in your ivory tower that you don't see it? And, since women as a demographic group are always notches below the guys in a patriarchal society, other than the Queen of England, yes they figure out how to get their share from the guys. It's usually with sex whether in marriage or prostitution. The problem with most feminists is that we don't want to play your stupid game anymore.

Unfortunately where there is destitution, it may be the only card in the deck at that time. How many German girls after WWII had to prostitute themselves to soldiers to get money to their families so they wouldn't starve? How many parents took the money from their still teenaged daughters and looked the other way because there was no other way to survive?

stupid game? Which one? To get money from guys by using sex? How many women today use sex or the promise of it to get things from guys?

USA in 2003 is not that destitute, plenty of options but many, many women decide that having sex with a guy who will provide is much easier then having to work for it. Deny that all you want...but women know the game extremely well and guys don't mind paying for sex one way or another.

more options than I ever did to earn meaningful cash, but until we rule, we will always open your wallet with sex. Is that what you are afraid of? That you will never get laid unless we are poor and starving?

so you admit you're prostituting yourself one way or another. Keep dreaming about ruling, it's OK to have dreams. Name one society where women have successfully ruled (for more than a couple of days). Guys generally make no bones about wanting sex and offering to pay for it (oen form or another), so no shame here. We're not in denial, you feminists are.

I'm not worried about you getting laid, so don't worry me getting laid. I got a charming personality....I'm told :)

the sort, (the prostituting thing), other than get married, but then we have been socialized to do so. I don't know about the charming personality you speak of. I hope it's better in person than on line. That little ditty about a thousand dollar bill stuck in your ear comes to mind.

To each his own. You probably don't know a girl who'd sleep with me and I don't know a guy who'd have sex with you. We're even.

happy holidays!!

and thought I was on the National Enquirer forum.

that they would actually use Exxon men.

favors, so they are willing to pay the desparate women for them?