Army Reserve unit wants homemade armor for Iraq duty

"Army policy generally prohibits troops from using equipment that has not been tested and approved by the military.

But fearing roadside bombs and snipers, the 428th Transportation Company turned to local businessmen to fund and fabricate special steel plates for their five-ton trucks and Humvees, which have thin metal floorboards and, in some cases, a canvas covering for doors."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/sfl-aarmor30dec30,0,5723748.story?coll=sfla-news-nationworld

Unless it makes their trucks and Humvees too heavy to carry in transport aircraft (which it probably won't) or perform as they should, the Army should let this unit put more armor on their vehicles.

Pretty neat the way also got local businesses to fund it and fabricate the armor. Way to go troops!

Now watch the DoD say "Hell No" to their Reservists' request to add homemade armor and give a fat government contract (funded by taxpayers) to some Bush & Co. booster to do the exact same thing.

from the article:

Rep. Ike Skelton of Missouri, the House Armed Services Committee's senior Democrat, sent a letter Monday urging Acting Secretary of the Army Les Brownlee to encourage the Army to "give every consideration to the efforts of the 428th."

"The Army should commend the soldiers of the 428th Transportation Company for their innovation and old fashioned American ingenuity," Skelton wrote.


I was going to send him an e-mail thanking him, but he only accepts messages from residents of his district.

Found this at his website, wonder if they've had any response from Rumsfeld:


Thursday, November 6, 2003

Reps. Lucas and Skelton Call on Rumsfeld to Investigate Treatment of Wounded Guard and Reserve Members

Washington, D.C. - Rep. Ken Lucas and Rep. Ike Skelton were joined by 130 Democratic Members of Congress in calling for an investigation into media reports that detail instances of hundreds of sick and wounded members of the National Guard and Reserve who are being housed in poor conditions, without indoor toilets, and receiving second-rate medical care.

"We write to convey our surprise and disappointment over recent press reports describing substandard living conditions and deplorable treatment for hundreds of sick and wounded members of the Army National Guard and Reserve," Lucas, Skelton and their colleagues said in a letter to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld. "We believe that an immediate investigation is warranted, and if the facts portrayed in the media are even half true, corrective action from the highest levels of the Department should immediately ensue."
http://www.house.gov/skelton/pr031106.htm


Here's a little more on the armor-

>snip<
A spokeswoman at Fort Riley, Kan., where the Missouri-based troops are preparing to depart for Iraq, said the unit will be able to take the steel with them, but that the Central Command will decide later whether it can be used.
http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/IRAQ_EXTRA_ARMOR?SITE=DCTMS&SECTION=HOME

and

>snip<
The soldiers got a local funeral home director active in community affairs to pay the roughly $4,000 tab for 13,000 pounds of one-quarter inch steel. Industrial Enterprises Inc. donated the fabricating work, valued at nearly another $4,000, so the steel could be fitted under vehicle floorboards and on the inside of doors.

The soldiers drove off in convoy Dec. 12 for Fort Riley, Kan., planning to fasten the specially made steel to their vehicles when they got to Iraq.

>snip<
Tallman and spokesmen at several Army bases said they were unaware of any other units trying to craft their own armor before leaving for Iraq. But Tallman said the Army had discouraged several families of individual soldiers from trying to obtain their own bulletproof vests, citing the same reason for Army testing of equipment.

Kirkweg said the Missouri soldiers didn't have time to wait weeks, months or years for the Army to test and approve a steel-plating project that he could complete in three days.

"We thought this is a very important project here - we're talking about possibility of saving people's lives," he said. "So without hesitation we went ahead and proceeded with the thing."
http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_armor_121903,00.html


I really oppose this invasion and occupation, but if they have to be there, they deserve to be kept as safe as possible.

edited for spacing - sorry about how this all seems to run together.

The humvee isn't an armored vehicle, it's not made to with stand a RPG attack and adding all the metal you want won't make it so. These guys need new vehicles made to withstand RPG's, can you say new billion dollar contract?

anything about military equipment - because I don't.

Seems to me, though, I'd feel a little safer having a sheet of metal between my body and a bullet than a piece of canvas.

Then again, if we just hadn't invaded Iraq in the first place.... *sigh*

The windshield is bullet resistant up to .45 ACP and the body panels of a hard sided HMMWV are kevlar.

The up-armored version is a tank on wheels:

anything about the weight of that thing? Was it retro-fitted or 'fresh off the showroom floor'?

One article cited above had this to say about adding the sheeting-

The Army's concern, Tallman said, is that unapproved steel-plating could somehow cripple the vehicles or cause them not to perform the way they were designed. For example, a Humvee armor kit recently tested at the Army's Aberdeen (Md.) Proving Ground was so heavy that it caused the vehicle to break, he said.
http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_armor_121903,00.html

is a piece of absolute garbage. As a person who lived in them for 6 years, I can tell you that it's a maintenance nightmare, underpowered, and not very agile. Sure, it can slug its way through 4 feet of mud, but it's lack of speed and agility are a huge liability in tight spaces such as Bagdhad alleyways and such. (The thing is over 7 feet wide)

Now, the test at Aberdeen, you have to realize, may be a little misleading. It is their mission in life at Aberdeen to break things. They shoot things, drive them over landmines, burn em, etc. to find the actual limitations of a piece of equipment.

I do think that some steel sheeting in strategic locations would help, though...like on the door panels and the floorboards (these have to be extremely well fastened, otherwise the plate could become a projectile if the vehicle drives over any ordnance).

I learned something this morning. (love when that happens)

My 20 yr old son's best friend is doing desert patrol in Iraq, so there is a personal interest in this. They were in on Christmas day, and we got a phone call from him. Hearing his voice was the best Christmas gift we received.

There's on old adage that kind of hammers home these points

"Remember, your equipment was made by the lowest bidder."

The ungodly GM 6.2-liter diesel engine was created by Oldsmobile for use in its cars. It's a rotten car engine and an even worse truck one. In the 209th we had a "CUCV Engine Blowing Contest." Whoever blew the most engines just driving the truck around Seoul would win a case of OB Heineken. I thought I had it with three until Little John (whose name was really John Little) threw a rod on two different engines within three days of Christmas.

And Little John drove like he had a raw egg between his foot and the gas pedal.

Anyway, this engine is in the HMMWV. Let's see...the engine has 135 horsepower and less torque--usually diesels have lots of torque, but not this one. We were told to never, ever get water on the engine, and it's not an electronic engine. ("Electronic engine" on a diesel means electronic fuel injection; in old engines it's mechanical.) I can attest to the veracity of this; we drove one through a big mudhole during Team Spirit 85, got water on the engine and it never worked again.

My favorite part of the HMMWV is the hood. (Favorite as in "George W. Bush is my favorite Republican.") It's unreinforced fiberglass and hinged in front. Pick it up from only one side and it splits. Gee, wouldn't it have been a good idea to mold a piece of angle iron across the inside of this? Yeah, but that would have added twenty bucks to the price of the hood. It has an aluminum body and the official Army primer won't stick to aluminum. (Hint to GI members: go to the local Sikkens car paint dealer and get yourself a little can of Autosurfacer 940HS. Peel the existing paint off, prime your HMMWV with that and the cheap-ass paint the Army passes out won't fall off your vehicle.)

The Army received four vehicles to test to be the possible "Hummer." They chose the worst one.

in its BASIC configuration weighs over 5000 pounds.

Check out Link

love that place. It's better than an ALMANAC. ( - waiting for the knock on the door now - )

thanks for the info, Superfly.

Have a good one!

Trust me very few people are getting wounded with 1911's, its the RPG's and land mines that are getting our troops. And they pack alot more power then the .45 acp. I believe the humvee is rated to be 762 resistant which means it doesn't even stop machine gun ammo. It's lightly armored at best and it's sure as heck no tank on wheels.

the "up-armored" HMMWV is very heavily armored. I was at a test in White Sands in 1997 when they drove that version over a landmine. The engine compartment was completely removed from the vehicle whereas the crew cab was largly intact. The occupants would have been injured (probably broken ankles), but alive.

to make them feel better. And, tell them that they're doing a swell job, and for the Iraqi's to "bring 'em on."