could we handle the truth if faced with it? is the BFEE actually smart?

could they actually have vast intelligence, that us, the general population, just could not handle, that would justify and explain...everything? is it possible? even slightly? i do not think BFEE are stupid people, they would much prefer we THINK they are stupid. * himself may be an exception, but i don't think he's stupid, just very very sick.

could it actually be, that we are fighting a force, so powerful that we NEED to keep the nation in the dark? and I'm not talking about democracy. or blackmail on a very large scale? it seems to reason, that WHATEVER is going on with this country, a significant number of people must know what is going on, if just a important small piece of the puzzle. for whatever reason these people stay quiet, for a long, long time. so two quick conclusions one can come to, are:

1: what they know is big, big enough that they can clearly see what impact it would have on mankind, must be REALLY BAD! a legitimate threat.

2: they become privy to this information, whether they believe it or not, support it or not, they are "convinced" that what/who they would expose, should they try to expose them or their motives, are so powerful, that resistance is futile, and if everybody just plays along, we'll be fine. everybody else is cool with the arrangement, so don't you go and be the one to screw it up for everybody. whatever their bribe is is better that trying to speak out and face the consequences.

now in either situation, you are going to have a large number of people, with some level of information, a lot of people with a little information, and a few people with a lot of information. government people, military people, civilians, Dem's, reps...etc. but face it, barriers are set up every step of the way to keep the conspiracy, whatever it is, secret.

what would compel an otherwise honest, churchgoing, law abiding citizen to take a secret to their deathbed for their country, particularly if it was a big lie?

of course the easiest way to make the point is comparison to the rise of the third Reich, a lot of people were doing things they knew were wrong.

basically it boils down to, could the BFEE actually be working in the BEST INTENTIONS of our country? or is the name BFEE appropriate?

:)

GMTA!

what i'm asking, if all the anti bush paranoia is nothing, it's just that for the sake of national/world security, WE can't know the details. if all the conspiracy theory stuff is just that, than why can't we have even a little convincing evidence to support the official storys?

Like on the X-Files?

Or something more prosaic, like .... well, like what?

The theory you are presenting is a nice description of precisely the type of un-named, vague fear and feeling that 'they know best' that the Bush administration (and SO many more before them) would like us to experience. Actually, like ALL proto-totalitarian regimes would like their people to feel -- go read Orwell again if you've missed this. Big Brother always knows best.

So in short: No. This is a democracy. It's either a democracy, or I'm going to go start throwing rocks in the street! The people have to be kept informed if the regime wants their consent.

Besides, the Bushes have been caught in SO many lies up to now, that I don't buy that this is all for our benefit.

If that were the case, why do they insist on attempting to make so much money off of their actions.

I'm calling this BULLSHIT.

... but we've bungled that so badly in Afghanistan and Iraq that I'm no longer of that school.

But I was at least willing to entertain the notion that the BFEE "knew" that there was far less oil left in the world than we think, thus "justifying" the PNAC agenda. We're kept in the dark because, quite understandably, Joe Sixpack would panic if he found out gas was going to be $20/gallon in five years. And the BFEE would honestly think they're acting in the "best interests" of the country -- by making the rest of the world suffer.

Now, granted, if that's the most "noble" set of intentions I can ascribe to the BFEE under any circumstances, then they truly are an evil the likes of which this country has never before known.

If you look at a 10-year timeframe and/or other geopolitical issues (like who are OPEC's favorite customers and their currency of choice).

The BFEE makes a lot of money in the oil trade and they all expect to live at least 10 more years.

its easy to buy the oil aspect, almost too easy.

so then how does us trading off iraq debt for oil rights to other countries play in? russia surely would plan on keeping their shares they are buying into by writing off the iraq debt.

their country. Power and Paranoia together create a mindset which jusifies any action.

That's about all I can say about your theory. BFEE may think they have the best intentions, but so have other groups who've brought sorrow and war to the world in past centuries. All claimed they had the best intentions. Did they?

and they'v been at it for several generations already.

best intentions for the country? the evidence points in another direction.

Some of them may feel that it will be best for everyone if they have it.

...of the country. I could also be the King of Norway, through a vast network of illegitimate cross-breeding. On the other hand, the BFEE could be altering your brain waves with a top secret neuron beam originating in Area 51.

If you think that YOU, YOURSELF being arbitrarily declared an enemy alien and shipped off to a barren rock off the coast of Antarctica is somehow in the best interests of the country.... well, perhaps I'd have to agree.

They are evil. They are. immoral. They are greedy. They arrogant.

They did it in WW1 in WW2 in Korea in Vietnam and they are doing it in spades in Iraq. Yes they are smart people but they have no soul. Killing means more money to them and money is the only true ideal of the Republican Party

could be so casually dismissed?

For the entirety of human history, with a very few notable exceptions (the vast majority of them being inthe 20th Century), the powerful have robbed, defrauded, used, and abused the powerless.

This is not hyperbole but reality. It is what lead Jefferson to remark, "The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately, by the grace of God. "

Think about it, for it is the core philospohy (not what Jefferson said, but that the mass of makind is made to be ridden by Superior Rulers like the Busheviks) of the Imperial Family.

Not surprising, since it has basically been the policy (to ride their subjects like pack animals) of 98% of leaders throughout history.

Coincidentally, ever since the Age of Enlgithenment, when occasionally the citizenry of all nations would uncharacteristaically balk at being ridden by their booted and spurred Masters, the main rationalization for deceiving citizens has been National Security.

"A Matter of Internal Security...the age old cry of the Oppressor."
--unknown

So, given that there seems to be not a spark of that nobility of soul that made the Founding Fathers different from almost everyone who came before and after them, I am not inclined to believe the same old disingenuous tripe from leadsers who just want e to shut of and stop whinnying when they apply the spurs.

Well, that and the many other reasons well annunciated by others on this thread.

No. They are clearly of sub-average intelligence. May we start with Ronald Reagan who by this time of century even the most benighted GOPer has acknowledged suffers from Alzheimer's disease?

May we then step forward and examine Bush I -- "Poppy" -- who can barely speak a coherent sentence and whose great achievement in diplomacy was upchucking on the Japanese prime minister?

Dare we even mention his life insurance policy -- er, I mean his vice president -- the man who was out-spelled by second graders?

May we next examine Bush II -- "Temporary" or "Dubya" -- the drunken babbler who can't even eat a pretzel without falling on his ***?

Look, we are all capable of looking about a classroom and knowing who the idiots are. We know almost instantly in our personal life who has a brain and who doesn't.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that our so-called leaders are a bunch of drunken buffoons.

Would you suppose that Caligula and Nero were actually wonderful players of the "great game," with intelligence and cunning far beyond that of mere mortal men? I think not.

The GOP "leaders" are fools and puppets. Apparently, they like it that way. You won't be finding too many Rhodes Scholars in that bunch.

I am willing to accept that Bill Clinton has more than I've got upstairs. Time has proven that he was correct in some of his perceived excesses such as his "obsession" with Bin Laden. But you know? Even when we might have disagreed with President Clinton, no one among us had to look in our hearts and ask ourselves, "Is this policy just the drugs talking?" or "Who paid him off this time?" People of high intelligence may see far and plan ahead the chess moves we can't see. But, as time goes by, we do see.

Twenty-plus years after Reagan took the reins, and he is a drooling corprse. Ten-plus years post Poppy and nothing has ever emerged to demonstrate that he had the tiniest iota of sense. Three long miserable years of Dubya and the world is getting worse...

These men are not just evil men. They are stupid men. That is so often the tragedy of aristocracy. The stupid who couldn't hold their own in a small ghetto can rise to the top when they're coddled and protected because of a "blue blooded" background.

hell, the bush's tried killing him.

of course they select somebody to sit in the big chair and act like they are in control, but i don't believe reagan was in control, and i don't believe george w is in control now. king george I, maybe. they want us to think shrub is an idiot, so if/when we finally get our way, and get rid of him, we feel like we got rid of the bogeyman, but the real players slink away in the shadows and keep keepin on.

if they were so stupid, it would be absolutely no problem to outsmart them in the elections etc. these people have been the ones paying attention to history, they have learned from the nazi's etc. they are so smart they got the dem's thinking they are in the same game, but they are playing a whole different sport. they might be making a few mistakes here and there, but in general they are pulling off a lot of what they attempt.

With the adoption of the Euro, the dollar support we enjoyed and our
wielding of that weapon, change the dynamics of World leader. Peak oil has been reached and becomes a very valuable commodity in the short run. Islam vs Christianity in terms of world populations changes alliances.
These are the boogy men who scare neocons.
Could you or your family survive in a third world country?
disclaimer: I beleive with leadership we could work well with others to meet these challenges.

Not just with regard to the Bushes, but also with regard to some Dem leaders who "go along" more than we would like them to.

Yes, we are in an end game for the remaining oil.

We also are in an end game for the privatization of water supplies.

What determines the good/evil of the BFEE is the fact that they choose a path that does not solve those coming shortages in a way that brings peace and stability to the world, but rather choose a path that insures chaos and strife for all -- and bring enormous profit to their own treasure chests.

Those who lie to make policy are the mortal enemies of democracy.