Poll: Who was Jesus?

and I have to admit, it does my heart good to see so many agreeing with me. A couple of years ago, when I came to this conclusion, I felt extremely lonely.

Thats why we gotta be vocal but respectful of others beliefs. Nonbelievers can wind up being isolated in this society. I speak up not to put down believers but to let other nonbelievers know they are not alone.

I'm not always successful of course. I've had some of the thorniest disagreements with people who believe in Jesus's historicity but not his divinity--i.e., non-Christians who believe there was a real Jesus "Christ" (most probably don't realize that "Christ" is not a last name but actually does mean the same thing as "Messiah"). It's these people who have made me feel most lonely, actually.

I am somewhere between composit and myth. I suspect that the author of the Gospels of Mark was the primary originator of most of the stories of Jesus. I further suspect that his works were actually a retelling of the stories of Homer(Odyseus and Illiad).

They're really food for thought.

Have only a few of us heard of Joseph Campbell anymore...?
From a current thread elsewhere (real names changed)

************* wrote :

i'm in the U.S. in the midwest. Iowa ! The corn state. It's cool here i guess. I just started using FL about a month ago. I did alot of homework lookng @ different options and software and I found FL won hands down because of it's user friendliness. Plus it looks cool too ! I produce hip-hop/rap music have been for almost 14 years. The first 5 years I was doin' it for me. Now i'm doin' it for Jesus Christ. What kinda music do you produce ?

donderdag, 14 augustus 2003 22:58


Quiddity wrote :


Now i`m doin` it for Jesus Christ.



I hope the bastard is at least cutting you in on the royalties.

vrijdag, 15 augustus 2003 01:11



*********** wrote :

My Lord Jesus Christ has a Father therefore he is not a bastard. How about you ? Do you have a Father ?

vrijdag, 15 augustus 2003 15:32



Quiddity wrote :


I have a father but I don't have a mother but it's ok cause me and my father share yours.

vrijdag, 15 augustus 2003 18:16


yob· wrote :

Ihave a father but I don`t have a mother but it`s ok cause me and my father share yours.

Aaaahahahahahahahahaha! LOL.

vrijdag, 15 augustus 2003 18:59


yob· wrote :


Now i`m doin` it for Jesus Christ.


Has he reviewed any of your tracks?

vrijdag, 15 augustus 2003 00:09


********** wrote :


Jesus Christ reviwes all of what I do. Tracks included !

Peace out!

vrijdag, 15 augustus 2003 15:31


yob· wrote :


Jesus Christ reviwes all of what I do. Tracks included !

Don't start me. Really. Take it to any one of the countless looney-tunes sites that thrive on mass delusion.

Your imaginary friend won't give you any real feedback on your tunes but if you post the flp on S.Ex then some real people might.

vrijdag, 15 augustus 2003 19:04


********** wrote :

Check it out fellas ! Believe it or not, it still will not change the fact that WHEN you die, YOU WILL (this is a promise) stand before the ONLY living and true God and YOU WILL give an account to HIM as to whether you received or rejected Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour. You can mock, laugh, curse, diss or whatever you feel you need to do to comfort yourself. But the fact remains the same. :) LOL If I were you, I would take it serious and listen. You only have this life to secure your decision. Once your life is over, it's over !

vrijdag, 15 augustus 2003 20:13


yob· wrote :


YOU WILL (this is a promise) stand before theONLY living and true God and YOU WILL give an account to HIM as to whether you received or rejected Jesus Christ asyour Lord and Saviour.


So your god's a guy? Does he have a dick then? Does he ever have a divine wank?

How can you promise anything about the future? Where are you getting your information from?

How will I stand before anyone? For one thing I'll be dead. For another my body will have decayed. Like your delusions, I won't have a leg to stand on.

What about polytheists who never heard of your god and worship their own gods? What will happen to them on judgement day? Come to think of it, what will be the fate of unbelievers? Remember, we'll all be dead and thoroughly incorporeal. What can he possibly punish us with and what kind of fucked up god would punish ignorance anyway?

Saviour? What are we going to be saved from?

What does your god offer you? Eternal life? Show me one person, one single person who has everlasting life! I once met someone who was 108 years old. That's old but infinitely removed from everlasting.

What are you going to do with infinity when you get it?

Do you respect other people's beliefs? If you do you're not a true believer yourself, are you? How can you have respect for anyone else's belief if you are 100% sure that they are utterly wrong? Why the hell are you wasting your time writing songs? Surely your god wants you out there spending every single moment of your life spreading the word?

If Mary was unaware at the time that your god impregnated her isn't that technically rape?

Virgin Mary? Come on, if ANY young girl ANYWHERE came out with a story like that today would you believe her? Would you fuck! You'd assume, along with the rest of the world, that she was either a) deluded or b) coming up with a seriously lame excuse because she's too ashamed or afraid to admit that she's been out shagging (do you know what they did to pregnant girls without a husband in those days?).

I'll stop there.

vrijdag, 15 augustus 2003 23:24


*********** wrote :


Yob, apparently you didn't read all of that message that i typed. I think it's funny and I mean funny to hear the things that you obviously have heard about (Mary, the virgin birth, eternal life etc.). Check it ! Your thoughts and comments don't bother me at all kid. I'll say it again ! Don't worry Yob, all things WILL be revealed when you die. OOOPS !! I better be careful because someone might think that death is theory too!! :) And if anyone thinks that gravity is a theory then go jump off a 50 story building and then come back and let me know what you find out. LOL And Yob, you're right. I don't respect anyone elses beliefs in the way that you put it because I believe Jesus Christ is the ONLY way, the ONLY TRUTH and the ONLY life. I don't appologize for that at all.

Bottom line kid. YOU can believe whatever YOU want you have a free will, God made you that way. I don't need to prove anything to anyone. Just wait !! And you will see !! You are obviously a smart man Yob. See, if I'm wrong Yob, I'll still be okay. But if you are wrong....

Today 00:15



yob· wrote :


I don`t need to prove anything to anyone.


But you should be making it you life's work to be proving your god to the world. If your god wants everyone to believe in him then surely it is your DUTY to be convincing in your arguments otherwise you are just a huge disappointment to him?

Besides, you guys are soooooo lazy. All you do is come out with the same meaningless, wishy-washy rhetoric that you've been taught and then hang around waiting to die so that you can sit there with your sad god pointing at all us unbelievers and saying, "I told you so". What a fun everlasting life you're going to have.

So come on, do god's will. CONVINCE me. Give up some inarguable proof and convert me or face the wrath of an angry god who will surely smite you with a great vengeance for being such a smug, self-satisfied, complacent believer who never had the guts or intelligence to even put up a half-decent case for his almighty glory!

Pah!

Today 01:32

yob· wrote :


YOU can believe whateverYOU want you have a free will, God made you that way.


Ok, so god made me this way. Why? So that he can punish me in the afterlife? Can you spot the obvious flaw here? If your god made me an infidel and he intends to punish infidels at judgement day then I am prejudged and my fate is sealed. How pointless.

Today 01:18


yob· wrote :


But if you are wrong....

Yeah, yeah. Typical. Ignore all the questions and simply repeat the rhetoric. You god guys are so predictable.

If I am wrong (and I know I'm not - we atheists have a lot of belief)...what? What's going to happen? What flavour is your god? If he's merciful then I'll be forgiven. If he's not then why would anyone want to worship something so small-minded and petty as to hold grudges? Like that time he hid behind a tree and jumped out when Adam & Eve ate a bit a fruit, shouted, "Ha! Gotcha!", and sentenced them and all their descendants for ever after (the entire human race, if you believe the tale) to eternal suffering. What a fucking sad wanker of a god that is, eh?

What have I to fear? Indeed, why should fear be the foundation of any belief?

And what do you mean "if"? Have some faith for god's sake! :)

Today 01:12

kier(on a gore) wrote :


Like that time he hid behind a tree and jumped out when Adam & Eve ate a bit a fruit, shouted, ``Ha! Gotcha!``



Na that was Pete Beale. Someone had been knicking them off his stall....

Tweecle :)


Today 01:16

yob· wrote :

Na that was Pete Beale. Someone had been knicking them off his stall....

Pete Beale is god? This is far more fucked up than I had realised? ;o)
Today 01:20


Quiddity wrote :


Believe it or not, it still will not change the fact thatWHEN you die, YOU WILL (this is a promise) stand before theONLY living and true God and YOU WILL give an accounttoHIM as to whether you received or rejected Jesus Christ asyour Lord and Saviour.

You believe this to be true. I do not. Neither one of us can prove we are right. The only thing is that I DON'T TRY TO CONVINCE PEOPLE THERE IS NO GOD. I don't care what anybody believes but you idiots (and you are idiots for believing in something just because some other people told you it was true) have to annoy the crap out of everyone with this bullshit. My favorite part of your last post was you said the fact that WHEN you die YOU WILL (this is a promise) stand before theONLY living and true God...

Sorry moron, it's a theory. Facts have evidence to back them up. btw the ONLY living and true god? How many religions (and Gods) are there? I'm glad you know for a fact that you're god is the REAL one.

I personally worship Joe Pesci.

vrijdag, 15 augustus 2003 20:33


********** wrote :


Yo Quid, if it's a theory then why do you spend so much time and energy disputing it ? And why do you spend so much time and energy insulting those who believe it's fact ? Don't worry Quid. It's all gonna be revealed sooner or later whether fact or theory. Personally, I believe! And notice that I'm not insulting you. I'm extremely secure about what I believe. That's why I don't get bent out of shape when I meet someone who disputes and rejects what I believe dude. I care about you and your fate dude but it's not on me as to what you decide.

And Kier, I know what you mean about facts vs theory dude, i was there once. But all you have to do is look around you. You've heard of the atom right ? Where do you think the atom came from ? I mean, the atom does exist, it's not a theory.

vrijdag, 15 augustus 2003 21:17


RLabz wrote :


Yo Quid, if it`s a theory then why do you spend so much time and energy disputing it ? And why do you spend so much time and energy insulting those who believe it`s fact ?

You know, I've wondered the same thing.... Why bother insulting those who do believe? (myself included) I don't try to push my beliefs on others, I simply make them known. I don't understand why people are constantly trying to disprove my beliefs. It doesn't hurt them if I believe, I'm just trying to set an example and maybe interest someone in why I believe what I do. I don't make fun of them for NOT believing, so why should they attack me? So anyway, I'm a Christian, I believe Jesus died to save sinners, then rose again. Attack me if you will, but you're wasting your breath (keystrokes?). If you want to know more, it's easy to contact me. But don't waste your time trying to change my beliefs.

Keep on preachin, brotha =)

RLabz

vrijdag, 15 augustus 2003 21:58

JAHA wrote :

I mean, the atom does exist, it`s not a theory.

no - actually it's a theory...but...i digress

vrijdag, 15 augustus 2003 21:40

******** wrote

Hey JAHA ! No, the atom is real dude! it's a scientific proven fact !! I guess you feel that every ligitimate scientist out there is out thier mind to believe that the atom exists huh ? What about the law of gravity JAHA, is that real or is it a theory too ? And it's funny that your name that you use has JAH in it. You must know something. :)

vrijdag, 15 augustus 2003 21:52


JAHA wrote :


facts are irrelevant in that context...the atom is a theory and it works well in most cases...but it will probably be superceded by a more complex and more general theory in the future that handles more extreme cases.

It's funny you mention gravity...because yes...that also is a theory. And you have Newtons theory of gravity which was accepted as "fact" for a long time, but then the General Theory of Relativity brought an entirely new theory of gravity which handled more extreme cases.

So, it's not surprising you consider these things facts...the lay person doesn't usually have an a appreciation for how transitory these ideas are. And the way education presents them doesn't help.

Things are the way they are...and we try to figure it out. Thats about the whole of it.


vrijdag, 15 augustus 2003 22:09


gol wrote :


but the theory is more what defines an atom, not the atom itself. I mean, we can see them, we can even write with them:



you can't write by moving theories around :)
If it's discovered later that they're not made of what we think, they will still remain atoms, just as an entity of something else.

What's very real is this goddamn thread that takes 3 sec to refresh & is a nightmare to scroll on my system :(

Today 03:20


******** wrote :


Jah, sounds like you're a pretty smart guy. WOW!

vrijdag, 15 augustus 2003 22:18


Electromonkey wrote :

Jaha is right Tim, virtually all the science you ever learnt is based on models that fit what we see around us - Theories! The model for the atom is just a way of describing how it behaves in order to study it.

oh yeah, dont use the word FACT too loosely either.

Also, Scientist DO NOT 'prove' things. EVER. They just look at the world by means of experiments and say "Oh, it seems to work like this....". Then 25 years passes and someone else says, "Mr Smith was wrong, it's really like this....". And so it continues. Nothing in science is proved, it is constantly evolving and with each evolution the theories model the world in a more realistic way. The only subject that ever proves stuff is mathematics.

Today 01:45

JAHA wrote :

we should exchange emails...we're on exactly the same page


Today 02:40


kier(on a gore) wrote :


And Kier, I know what you mean about facts vs theory dude, i was there once. But all you have to do is look around you. You`ve heard of the atom right ? Where do you think the atom came from ? I mean, the atom does exist, it`s not a theory.

Each to their own.
Take care

Kier

vrijdag, 15 augustus 2003 21:20


kier(on a gore) wrote :

Check it outfellas ! Believe it or not, it still will not change the fact thatWHEN you die, YOU WILL (this is a promise) stand before theONLY living and true God and YOU WILL give an accounttoHIM as to whether you received or rejected Jesus Christ asyour Lord and Saviour. You can mock,laugh, curse, diss or whatever you feel you need to do to comfort yourself. But the fact remains the same. :) LOL If I were you, I would take it serious and listen. You only have this life to secure your decision. Once your life is over, it`s over !

Prove it! I'm not joking, prove it. I need hard evidence. Not beliefs. :)

Sure I believe that everyone has the right to their own beliefs, and I respect you for that.

I'm not flaming you. I'd just like to see peoples hard evidence based on actual findings.


cheers


Kier
vrijdag, 15 augustus 2003 20:14

Quiddity wrote :


I kick the homeless for jesus!

I bitch slap helpless children for jesus!

I trip the crippled for jesus!

but he can keep his grubby hands off my tunes.

It may get this thread locked, but it's still funny.

The story of Jesus Christ was actually based on the life of Julius Caesar.

http://www.users.bigpond.com/pontificate/

I've been reading Suetonius's "The Twelve Caesars" and just finished Anthony Everitt's "Cicero." Wow. That's a plausible theory! Thanks for the link.

but he was just a VERY enlightened person!

A DK of those times! : )

in a long line of Mexican boxers to proudly carry that name!

did I win a prize? :bounce:

a forward thinker, great philosopher, revolutionary and a pacifist all rolled into one. A person to admire and gain inspiration from. :-) Also probably the most important and influential person to have ever lived.

I totally agree.

What's so hard about that? He said he was the son of God and I believe him.

BTW, welcome to DU, premjan! :hi:

what did che think?

"a forward thinker, great philosopher, revolutionary and a pacifist all rolled into one. A person to admire and gain inspiration from. Also probably the most important and influential person to have ever lived."

I agree, except for one thing, Piperay. His influence has been negligable on the Religious Right who have hijacked his Name. They worship Mammon and call him Jesus.

He would have been a mere obscure footnote (if that).

A most down-to-earth, enlightened man.

:-)

DemEx

I'm curious what you base this belief on--this belief that he was real and ever lived.

If he happened to come to the US. He would scare the pants off John Ashcroft, and every politician in the US would call him lots of names that they think mean bad things and usually end in "ist."

Few would believe he was Jesus, because everybody knows that Jesus was a white man who spoke English and shopped at Wal-Mart.

... however the guy in DC (who looks like the Renaissance concept of of Jesus) still has his "Cafepress.Com" shop.

I hope he made a big profit on his domain name.


http://www.cafeshops.com/jesuscom

Whatever his real Hebrew name may have been (the Gospel of Matthew is explicit in that he was to be named Emmanuel), Jesus was a Jewish martyr executed by a cruel foreign occupier. Jesus's death was no different from that of thousands executed by the Romans for opposing imperialist Rome, such as the slaves that participated in the Spartacus rebellion.

I have no quarrel with Jesus, the Jewish martyr and alleged Messianic pretender, or with those that see him as a supernatural being. My quarrel is with those that invoke his name as they unleash a wave of terror abroad and infringe on our liberties at home.

n/t

8 year olds, Dude.

...the Puerto Rican guy who lived in the apartment beneath me from 1994-95. Jesus Alvarez, a really friendly dude!