For people who have seen Kill Bill in it's entirity...

Do you believe this will be one of the 'classics' of all time once the two volumes are combined?

I wouldn't be surprised if a DVD with the entire movie is released by X-Mas this year, given how money hungry Tarantino is. But this seems to be one hell of a film. I would've sat through the whole thing in its entirety more easily than I did LOTR: ROTK.

Tarantino is simply too derivative imho to ever direct a classic. They're massively entertaining, but like all the rest of his films, don't have a whole lot of soul.

He readily admits that his shots aren't original. It's kind of endearing, in a way (even though I find him to generally be a smarmy stuck up bastard).

i completely agree with you. i love all of his homages, and kill bill's in particular because i am an asian cinema fanatic.

he's fantastic at mimicking the good shots and sequences of others, but i still haven't seen anything particularly original or, as i said, with any real heartfelt feeling.

I'm not really a film buff. But I am interested in creativity. Do you know what might've inspired the completely black buried-while-alive scene in the second Volume?

I've never seen someone try that and I think it worked very well. But, then, again, I haven't many films outside the western mainstream.

to Sergio Leone's spaghetti westerns (down to the being buried in another person's grave) and the shot of her hand coming up through the ground was a direct reference to the final shot of Carrie

Paula Schultz, (the person in whose grave she's buried) is a reference, even, to a 1968 movie called _The Wicked Dreams of Paula Schultz_

in my naiveness I would guess the scene following the hand coming up through the ground is a reference, generally, to zombie movies.

I'm reaching to try and find some sort of original content in Kill Bill, but what about the scene in Vol 1 where Elle is walking down the hospital hall whistling Twisted Nerve. That seemed rather creative. Or the lengthy steadycam shot in the House of the Blue Leaves, where it shows the bride preparing to capture Sofia?

Actually, I'm sure I've seen better steadycam work in other movies, just the IMDB chat on this has gotten me all into it. :(

You should check out The Shining, if you haven't seen it--it's the movie that Stanley Kubrick had steadicam invented for and has some awesome use of it.

In terms of the two examples you gave, I'm not sure if either qualifies as a direct reference or not, but I certainly thought of Malcolm McDowell in A Clockwork Orange for the former. There are a million, billion long drawn out shots like the latter--one of my favorites is the 10-minute uncut opening of Orson Welles' great movie Touch of Evil, even if it does star Charlton Heston...shudder...

I have seen A Clockwork Orange plenty, but am not sure of the actors and all. Are you talking about the scene where they beat the bum under the bridge directly after he is singing? I could certainly see that as somewhat of a precendent. Even in my teenage years I was fond of that movie, as well as Dr. Strangelove.

edit: And I have seen the Shining with Nicholson, I will be sure to watch it carefully next time though. It kicked the ass out of the latest version with the guy from Wings. I mean, christ, the guy from Wings trying to fill Jack's shows, w/e.

by singing the song Singing in the Rain and seeing how they react. If they smile and mention Fred Astaire they are from 40-50's. If they mime a kicking motion ... they are from the 60-70's. If they stare at you blankly they are from the 80-90's.

to The Vanishing. A French film remade into an American botch. The original conveyed a true sense of horror re being buried alive. Even had the light source in the coffin ref. Though... na, can't spoil the ending of it if you haven't seen it.

the first hour of part two was great as well, but I thought it really fell apart in the last 30 minutes...shame

Part one still worth buying by itself regardless.

I read in an interview somewhere that I can quite recall that the whole movie was going to be chronologically rearranged when it is released as a whole. I'd like to see that b/c I believe the last chapter in the first movie truely should've been the climax, and the death of bill the after-sex smoke.

On a side note I read that this is apparently the amount of DVD's they plan to release for this film:

Kill Bill Vol 1
Bill Bill Vol 2
Kill Bill Vol 1 Special Edition
Kill Bill Vol 2 Special Edition
Kill Bill (as a whole)
Kill Bill Special Edition

This was off of a random link on the IMDB, so its not concrete. I think that amount of crass commercialism might even turn off many Tarantino fanboys.

But he still lacks certain depths. Great style. But a movie should change you to some extent. The movie was very interesting. It was a master work of subrefrence. But that is not all a movie should be. Its as if he cut up several masterpeices and reassembled them into a new painting. Very interesting but ultimately nothing is conveyed other than an appreciation for the original art. Nothing new was created.

That the general public does not care enough to view many of the movies Tarantino drew from, majorly b/c they weren't advertised as heavily or even filmed while they even existed?

And this basic ignorance of the genuine article, combined with the commercialism applied to this amalgamism, will cause it to be a classic?

I mean seriously... do most people care about depth in a movie anymore? Adam Sandler can still sell out a box office!

what you mean by classic. If you mean vox populi then I suspect its high minded tone will kill its long term appeal amongst the LCDs. It will enjoy some appreciation from the real fans of the reference material as we try to sort out his references. But for a film to become a generational classic it really does need to stand on its own in some way. It has to have an effect on people. It has to carry itself. Tributes are not typically remembered when people can still view the things being honored.

as in 'fun to watch'. I saw the Manchurian Candidate (and I generally disdain B&W) many years after anyone really cared about it (in fact, I think I first heard about it here at DU) and thought it was just fun to watch. The ideas expressed in that movie really disqualify it as a valid reference to Kill Bill, but I typed it and I'm too lazy to delete it.

Of all the movies filmed in the past couple of years, save the LOTR trilogy which I believe will live on via fans for decades, I think this movie will hit the TMC channel well before anything I've been around (at age 20) to experience in theater.

The difference of opinion is most likely in how we view the term 'classic' when applied to a movie. I think yours is a bit more sophisticated than mine :)

I was surprised, to say the least, by the diversity of the music given that a rap artist 'did' the soundtrack.

I mean, I know that rappers sample shit, and all. I know tha the Wu-Tang pretty much pwned the rap scene for all eternity. But I was surprised at how well the RZA conducted the deal.

Hate to rain on anybody's parade, but the only Tarantulatino flick that was barely watchable was "Jackie Brown", but even that is deeply tainted with the director's ugly, mean-spirited, snotty worldview.

The popularity of this hack's films only solidifies my belief that our culture is in a serious decline. I'd rather my kids watch porn than his crap. Funny how his films have all the depravity of "Caligula" and gore of any slasher flick, but since it's all done with "ironic" dispassion, with doses of pop-culture quips and retro-celeb cameos to hipster-ize things up, Gen-Xers just eat it up, because if there's anything Gen-Xers love, it's products and entertainments that tell them how hip and cutting edge and clever they are.


:puke: on Tarantula-tino and his wretched, evil films.