Why honey is not vegan - they've got a cut on Bush!

I was searching for some vegetarian crockpot recipes for a friend and came across this site. I was reading it and found this line:

"Vegans typically don't judge species based on their intelligence. If it were ok to eat someone because he's dumb, a lot of humans would be in trouble (starting with, say, George W. Bush). "

It's basically just pollen and bee vomit, right? The bees aren't killed in the process of harvesting the honey, unless the beekeeper is clumsy and drops the frames, over-smokes the bees, or does something dumb like that.

--bkl

Actually I have always wondered about this. One of my vegan friends is convinced you kill the bees and nick the honey. I explain that this isn't the case ( having kept bees in my youth ), but I suppose it is like exploiting cows for milk, although bees are so important for flowering plants that they are needed.

I never kept bees, but I'm pretty familiar with the process. For the amusment of people who may not be familiar with it, the way it's done (at least the way it was done in the 1960s), the keeper uses a smoker to "smoke" the bees. They become docile when they inspire smoke. The top is removed from the hive, and one by one, the supers -- the box-shaped holders for the frames -- are exposed, the frame drawn out, the bees gently brushed from the frames, and the honey extracted by any of half-a-dozen methods. None of them kill bees, unless (as I wrote) the beekeeper is very clumsy or stupid.

There is a major ecological disaster happening right now, one that the press and most of the environmentalists have not picked up on. There has been a massive die-off of domestic bees over the past decade. No one is sure what is causing it, and it is several times worse that simple pesticide toxicity. The die-off is even taking its toll among wild honeybees, including the "killer bees" we heard so much about in the 1970s.

I haven't seen any reports on how this is affecting flowering plants, but it can't be too good. Perhaps there are still enough bees to pollenate the plants, but below a specific bee population level, there will be major problems in the plant kingdon, too.

Of course, this really doesn't have anything to do with the choice of one's diet. It's one more very troubling, very ominous sign of what is happening in nature right now. A bee die-off, a Krill plankton die-off in the North Atlantic, confused migratory birds, fish die-offs ... the last time this kind of thing happened was after a big chunk of rock carved out a piece of the Yucatan peninsula. The Chicxulub impactor hit 65 MYa, and it took a full 15 MY before the early Miocene "explosion" (as in, "explosion of life").

Vegan dieting won't really help; "this is bigger than both of us." The problem is that very few people of any dietary (or political) ideology are aware of what is going on.

--bkl

is an increase in the number of bee parasites that have been transported from different continents which then severely effect the local bee population.

Another is the number of food crops that depend on them. It will not just influence wild plants.

You might learn a few things (I know I did).

but where's the link?

<Blush> Can't believe I forgot the link....

http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm

:eyes:

Forced insemination. If you read the link about 'rape' you'll see he says it's not to trivialize rape against people.

If vegans don't want to eat honey because it's an animal by-product, that seems as good a reason as to me as torturing logic to come up with an explanation as to why it's EVIL.

Guess it depends on why you're a vegan (if you are one).

To purposely torture an animal because you want to get a different one is evil in my opinion.

I wouldn't have called it rape personally but I can understand why he says it.

Interesting read.

Is this a standard version of veganism? I know very little about it.

It sounds interesting.

Yes, alright, fine...I FORGOT the link! Beat me. Whip me. Make me write bad checks. <smile>

and work long hours.

I live in a tiny hexagonal-type cell, and I work long hours.

But the day I vomit honey is the day I check off of this crazee planet