Heard something about how nurses and teachers can't afford homes.

I think this was limited to Chicago, they were talking about a woman who teaches in the Chicago Public Schools, but can't afford to buy a house so she can live in the district, as required.

Then they talked about how nurses can't afford to buy houses either.

A nurse makes more money than I do, so why should I even THINK about making that mistake again?

Almost 1/2 my take-home pay was going to the mortgage company, but the counselers at the first-time home buyer program didn't consider that a problem. I remember when they used to say "spend no more than 1/4 of your pay for housing", and I always figured that meant utilities like light and heat, too. Now I guess it's OK to spend 1/2 your pay on just servicing the mortgage.

I had a "Fixer-upper", there wasn't much money for "Fixer-upping" at the end of the month...

but I haven't had a raise in three years and this year I received a 3% raise but my insurance went up $300.00 a month so I am making less now than last year and a little worried about the house now. It is about time we, the teachers, were paid like the professionals we are!

Around my area, in what other field can you find a job that REQUIRES you to have a Master's Degree, but pays you only about $45,000 for having that Degree? That's not right, but if you're called to teach...

I got a 2% raise this year, and inflation is what, 3.25%?
Isn't that what's called a "net loss"?
And considering that I hit a slump last year and got written up and NO raise, I'm even farther behind.

2%, and this was on a review that did everything but credit me for the invention of Television....

requires a Master's, and you *wish* you were earning 45k/year. In public libraries, try 25k/year, if you're lucky.

And she knows more than some of the MLS academians.

One of the assistant librarians spends all his time pretending he's traveling with Lewis and Clark or cruising Ebay for re-enactor stuff anyway...

Eom.

What the public libraries in my area (DC) are doing is:

A: Hiring legions of part-time librarians rather than a few full-time ones to save on benefits.

B: Hiring anyone with a bachelor's degree to work as a "library assistant" with all the duties and responsibilities of a librarian without having to deal with the salary and benefit requirements of hiring a librarian.

he makes approx. $45k working for the state. His wife is a social worker and makes a lot more than he does ($70k) which puts to rest another stereotype, the underpaid social worker.

I hear all these stories about how underpaid teachers are and stuff but I don't see the proof. Most teachers I know are solidly middle class (with salaries in the $40s-$50s). Maybe a beginning teacher makes no money but I suspect with experience they make a nice salary. I realize that it also depends greatly upon the school district one works in, the wealthier the district the better the pay.

cop, nurse, fork lift driver can afford to buy a house. So many moved to the Valley to the east and are pricing out working class people in towns like Tracy, Manteca, Lodi and Stockton.

district who could afford a home here any more. Home prices aren't figured into the inflation index, but if they were, the numbers would be off the charts. Crappy, and I emphasize crappy, 30 year old tract houses are going for over 600k. They are being bought up by professionals who want in to this "award winning" school district. In other areas of So. Calif. prices are just as high, though. I bought my house a long time ago when this area was considered out in the sticks and people moved here because it was cheap.

I honestly have no idea how people can afford to buy even a "starter" home today. Apartments around here rent for $1300 a month and up. Don't see how anyone can save for a down payment when already plunking down that kind of money for rent. It sucks.

I am a veterinarian in SoCal with over 20 years practice and I own my own vet clinic. I rent. I could afford to own if not for the astronomical down payments required on what are now very expensive homes. Bush has so decimated the local economy and got people so scared to spend money that I cannot save up for a down payment. My rent is a lot more than most average home mortgages (I got tired of living in apartments so I rent a small house). The little 2 BR fixer-up cracker boxes across the street from me are going for $500,000+.

I can never believe the prices for homes there. Fortunately the rest of the country isn't like that but that doesn't do you any good. A relative lives in the Palo Alto area and bought this crappy little house about 30 years ago for about 140,000. Now it is valued at 1 million or so. What area of the country has seen that kind of appreciation? They know they can come back east and live like kings with the appreciation they got on that house.

Only 15% of area residents can afford to buy.

and see things like 3 bedroom home with barbecue, $8,000,000. Like is that a 7 milliom dollar barbecue or something? Why do they even bring up the barbecue??? Everyone keeps saying the bubble will burst there but it never does. The most that happens, it seems, is the appreciation rate drops a bit.

Was maybe a year ago or so... I think it was in Santa Ana, or Santa Clara, California...ONE of those "Santa" cities. The school system couldn't attract new, young teachers because none of them could find affordable housing. I think they were partnering with the State of California to offer some type of subsidsed housing to attract new teachers to the area.

and I've been told that teachers here have been known to qualify for food stamps. I have been told by some teachers that they can barely afford to purchase homes on the Kansas side of the state line.

While teachers here are not rolling in the dough, it does seem as though they make decent salaries, but I'm not the one living on their take-home pay. I can tell you this year only half of the teachers in my school district (probably the best one in the state) are getting a pay raise, and that's only a 1% raise.

We are considered to have very affordable housing in this area, but of course affordable depends on what you make and exactly what neighborhood you buy in.

Surely the housing market in many places is in a classic bubble and will burst eventually. Or where are all the buyers coming from to by the hugely expensive homes in some parts of the country?

We are looking at buying house around here and are hoping that the banks will be nice to us in giving us a loan. We currently pay $625 per month in rent so shouldn't that prove that we can afford that much for a house payment? There are homes under $80,000 around here. The $400,000 or more that pays for a started home in some places will buy you a mansion around here.

even using half of your take home for the mortgage only, then they don't get any money. Funny how that works. Mrs bearfan and I had some really bad credit about 6 years ago, but the loan went through on the 2000 F150 PU.

It's a little (800 square feet) run-down shabby cottage at the edge of a poor working-class/renters neighborhood, down the street from the collection of subsidized apartment complexes with locked iron bars on all the entrances.

I'm zoned industrial. There is an abandoned chicken ranch next door, and a railroad track cutting off from the main track to run over to the Terry Lumber yard to the northeast of my house. There is a truck yard across the street, and a school bus yard down the street. Across the nearest large cross street is an airforce and aerospace industrial complex. Many low-flying planes pass overhead every day.

I try to keep up with the maintenance, but I can't afford to fix everything, and everytime I fix one bunch of stuff, more falls apart. I need a paint job, in and out, some dry-rot repaired, fence repair, wall and door repair, kitchen sink and plumbing repair....it never ends. This week I'll be done fixing one portion of fence, the grape arbor, a gate, and the garage door. But summer is over, and the bank account is empty. So the rest will have to wait.

I'd need two paychecks to consider living in one of the older local developed tracts. Real estate is considered to be relatively inexpensive in relation to teacher salaries in my area. Most of my colleagues live in "nicer" areas, but then, most of them are married and living on two incomes.

When there's demand, prices skyrocket.

Housing ain't nuthin'. Wait until peak oil. :-( :scared: :cry: :D :wow: :-( :cry: :cry: :scared: :hangover:

just got their pay minimums bumped up:

Bachelor + 0 = 27,000/yr
Master's + 0 = 30,000/yr

Believe it or not, the biggest part of Arkansas teachers got a 3000+ pay bump because of these new minimums. Some districts were actually paying less than 20,000/yr for teachers.

"Some districts were actually paying less than 20,000/yr for teachers."

Small districts in Iowa are paying about the same wage scale. And these aren't teachers just out of college either. Some places are just desparate about keeping a school open even if it's not viable anymore.
Then "business leaders" sit and wonder why people are leaving the state in droves.

In my area they may start at slightly higher figures than you mention but then they QUICKLY get large increases. What I find interesting is the bump from BA to MA, but there is a very slight bump from MA to PhD.

should be given special aid to help them buy houses. They are doing a service for our children, why not help them out. What the hell is our government good for if they can't help these people out.

We have a home. But it takes out two incomes to make it a happy home. She works in retail and I am a stocker. We do OK, but I think teachers and nurses are special and should be taken care of.

If they can't afford a house, they are living way beyond their means.
when you make from 30 to 50 dollars an hour, more if you are a traveler, you should be able to afford a house just about anywhere.

LPNs and CNAs obviously earn considerably less. In right-to-work (anti-union) states, nurses earn less, but it is still so much more than others in different healthcare fields.

How do you think we should solve this problem then?

http://www.discovernursing.com/benefits.aspx

I'm not saying that no RN makes that, but that's most likely an RN with over 20 years experience that's working as a Nurse Practioner or a Nurse Anesthitist.

Nevertheless, most of the places where teachers can't afford homes are places where one income families cannot afford homes - Chicago, California, many places on the east coast, etc. It has, for the most part, become a two income world when it comes to home ownership. But when the average family, one or two earner, cannot afford the average house, or even come close, then the bubble will burst. It has to, or the homebuilders will have no one to sell to. Actually, that's the case in Austin right now. Hundreds of new homes are sitting vacant and can be purchased by just about anyone with a job on a lease-purchase deal.

a starting nurse makes about 30 bucks an hour and if over 35 hour, they start making double time. If they want to work over 40 hours, then they get triple time. Both my relatives are in their 20s and really making bick bucks. Plus they have great pension and benefit and plans at the hospitals.

she is 26. ANother relative, an RN, makes about as much with working at a hospital as a surgical nurse and then some in home patient care a few hours a week. Probably doesn't work more than 50 hours a week.

$100,000 PER YEAR. CNRA's are the NURSES who assist the anesthesiologist during surgery. A nurse who works PRN (as needed) can also make a good salary. One of my friends has a friend who is a nurse and she works approx. FIVE HOURS a month. Her husband is a physical therapist and he makes good money. They are able to live quite well on what both bring home.

because they make a LOT of money.

WTF is all this?????? Nobody forces anyone into a career path. If you aren't happy with your choice, there is only one person to blame. Don't expect me to pay more taxes to support people who expect an easy ride in life. Get thy ass out, and get a better job!!!!!!!!

So are you willing to vote for a levy to pay teachers six figures?

It is difficult to measure, and "no, I don't believe all the teachers are worth more money". How can you possibly measure their productivity, when there is no scrutiny involved. For the most part, all the students are passed on, year after year. It's the American way.

aren't you?

Too many damn teachers these days don't know shit.

I remember reading the articles and comments on one of the local school boards voting not to increase the starting teacher's salary from $28,000. Wisconsin does not require a master's degree for certification. A letter to the editor complained that it was insulting for someone to go through 4 years of college and not make more than $28,000. Right now, I am paid hourly and get overtime and am lucky to make $28,000 per year and probably won't this year because several short weeks do to a slow down in business and being sick several days. I am looking for a new job and am shocked how many jobs requiring a Bachelor's degree and often a couple years experience pay under $12.00 per hour. I've seen full time jobs requiring a Bachelor's degree pay as little as $9.00/hour. With the exception of a few highly technical jobs, I have seen no entry level jobs for 4 year graduates advertised in the paper or on job sites paying more than that starting teaching salary.

On the aside, I'm very grateful that none of my 3 children went into the teaching. It may be an admirable, and satisfying profession, but the compensation isn't there, as you alluded to.

Then they'd still be living at home because they couldn't afford to move out.

I've been in the business over 25 years, have a degree, been certified by a professional association (SBE) and I STILL have yet to see a $40,000 paycheck.

they are important. And they should be fairly compensated. Everyone should be able to afford reasonable housing.

aren't that good, but if you get a masters or doctorate they pay a lot more. In a lot of suburban districts the average teacher salary is 60000 or so because a lot of them have masters degrees and they cripe about not having enough money. Hey, this for for 9 MONTHS work!!!!

They come from you and me via property taxes.

I'm all for people having a living wage and being able to purchase homes, but in the case of teachers in my area, their raise is my loss.

Teachers in my area make a darn good wage ($50,000 average, many make more) and look for increases every year. Close to 90% of our town's budget is spent on the schools.

I make $25,000 per year and must fork over $6,000 in property taxes a year to subsidize these teachers who earn far more than I do.

90 % of the tax goes to the schools and the teachers basically have a 9-3 schedule and 3 months off with GREAT medical insurance and pensions. And a lot of people who are paying for their salaries don't have that anymore.

I forgot to mention that I have a choice Ñ either pay my property taxes and hang onto my home Ñ or buy health insurance. Unfortunately, $25,000 isn't enough for both, so I go without health insurance.

are paying teachers for the salaries and benefits and hours they can only dream about and the teachers just don't get it. Pensions are becoming a thing of the past in non government jobs. So is health insurance.

1) "If people want more money they should get better jobs."

I first heard this line when Yale's clerical workers went on strike because the two bottom tiers of the payscale were eligible for food stamps.

Uh, if all the teachers and nurses and secretaries became stockbrokers, who would teach the children and keep the post-operative patients alive and hold major corporations together while their bosses sat around trying to looik important?


2) "Public employees have it better than I do; they have nothing to complain about."

The problem is not that public employees are paid too much; it's that you are paid too little. Instead of carping against people who are very similar to you, direct your resentment at the people who skew the system: the employers who think that you, who do all the real work, deserve nothing and they, who are already rich beyond the dreams of any teacher or nurse, deserve everything.

Could not have said it better myself.

but you sure are preaching. And I might add, missing the point of many of the posts.

:-)

she's wrong about that too.

A good friend of mine is a teacher. KIDS go to school 9 months---my friend (the teacher) is there practically all year long.

He has to be there a month before school starts to lay out his lesson plans, coordinate with other teachers and their lesson plans, set up the classroom.

He has to be there a month after school ends to get everything graded for the end of the year, clean up the classroom, teach summerschool (at no additional pay, btw).

Kids' get out of school at 4pm. He doesn't leave until 6, then spends the next 3 hours grading papers and setting up tomorrow's lessons.

Kids' get to school at 8am. He gets there at 6 to tutor students who need the extra help, and to be there for the kids' whose parents work odd shift jobs and get there several hours early. THey need direction most of all.

During holidays he is still working---grading papers, setting up projects, working on other things that go along with being a teacher.

Of course he also has to buy his own supplies, pay for the copies he makes of tests, quizzes, notes, etc. He has to do alot of the routine maintnenace in his classroom because the maintenance person works for 4 different schools in the area and often things like broken heaters or burnt out lighting won't get fixed for a month if left up to the school's maintenance guy.

Then there's the mandatory workshops he has to attend on weekends and summer break. THen there's the mandatory "enrichment" classes he has to take every summer to keep his certification up to date. Classes he has to pay for out of his own pocket. Classes he can't write off come tax time. Classes that he will be fired for not taking.

What vacation does he get? Well, this year he and his wife got the ultimate benefit--a FOUR DAY WEEKEND during the summer. Talk about extravagant!

Before taxes, he makes around $35k a year. After taxes, classes, supplies for the classroom in general, and supplies he buys for students too poor to afford paper and pencils, he brings in around $22k. HIGH FUCKING ROLLER!

All the people who deride nurses and teachers---be one for a year. For a fucking year and THEN see how much you have to say about their pay, hours, and responsiblities.

most of the teachers I know do about 2 days work before and after the school year in cleanup. This applies to teachers in different school districts. Lessons plans, after the first few years of teaching, after the kinks are out, are used and reused. The more experienced the teacher, the less time spent on the lesson plans.

In the public schools in my area, the teachers are not buying supplies. The expereinced teachers are grading in free periods and taking almost next to nothing home. Most are paid well (about 50%) above the national average.

In my area, nurses have huge responsibilities but are also recognized with excellent pay and benefits because of the nursing shortage. Standard hours are 35 hours a week. If they want to work more hours they have every opportunity to do so at double and triple time.

Oh and the teachers in my area are in fact working NINE months. If they choose to go for additional degrees on personal time, that is their personal decision.

For one thing, if you think that teachers work only 9 to 3, then you're seriously misinformed.

Everyone who thinks teachers have it easy and are overpaid should

1) try actually teaching six sets of 30 ill-behaved teenagers (or keeping 30 six-year-olds productively busy all day) and doing all the associated grading and paperwork--easiliy another three to six hours.

2) ask themselves why so many teachers are taking early retirement

and I say the same about nursing.

Everyone who thinks nurses are overpaid should

1) Try actually keeping track of 20 different patients with 20 different severe health problems, getting little support from the Doctors because many of them look down on you and your lack of education (ahem!) Wipe asses for 12 hours a day, feed people for 12 hours a day, change bedding, help people urinate and deficate, change dressings, assess wounds, turn, bathe, clothe, walk, read to, befriend 20 different people a day, many of them very sick and near death, but not sick enough to not complain about everything you do and the way you do it (The food tastes HORRIBLE! My arm HURTS! Stop wiping my ASS)

2) ask themselves why the average age of retirement for nurses hovers around 40 years of age and is dropping dramatically.

One close relative of mine is a teacher and I reiterate my points. He purposely went into teaching from another field a few years ago because of the SHORT hours, LOOONNGGG time off in the summer and the excellent benefits and pensions in the public schools. He does not do work outside the classroom, although he did his first two years of teaching. Now that he has the lesson plans down, he spends no time with that. He teaches in an excellent school district.

A good friend of mine just retired as a high school teacher and again, same story. Now if he did even 9-3 I would be surprised as he was the chairman of one of the depts. and thus did less teaching than other teachers. He did all grading, except for some final papers, in school during free period. He retired early on an excellent pension because he felt like it. More and more of his duties were administrative as the years passed. He took summers off also.

several other teachers; different districts, same stories. After the first year or two, they are ouddathere at 3:00pm and not taking work home and really enjoy their long summer vacations.

but 9-3 has to be an exaggeration. I know of no district in my area that has those hours. My contracted hours are 7:45 a.m.-3:30 p.m., and of course I arrive earlier than that and stay later. I service 600 students every 4 days. I don't get free periods, my dear.

IMO, teachers who use the same lesson plans over and over again are stagnant teachers who do not feel they need to expand their knowledge. These would be the kind of teachers that so many people bemoan.

Trust me, after being in a classroom with 150 kids every day, you need some time off to recuperate. Have you tried being in a room alone with 25 6-year-olds for an entire day? When you do, let me know. I will be fascinated to hear your report.

and maybe the time would be more along the lines of 8:30-3:00. You'll never get a report from me...why would I try being in a classroom with kids...never wanted to be a teacher!

By the way both people I mentioned are in really terrific school districts (if you want to use state scoring criteria).

There is only one teacher I know who liked teaching the six year old set. A lifelong teacher who had eight children of her own. She never redid a lesson plan either once she got the hang of it after one or two years. She felt if you couldn't hammer lesson plans out after that time, you shouldn't be teaching. She was very no-nonsense. She had to be as she was coming home to eight kids and didn't have time to tinker with lesson plans.

I didn't think I made enough (as a social worker). You have to look. Chicago is a difficult market, I'd guess. The neighborhoods where a teacher or a nurse want to live in aren't likely affordable. The neighborhoods that are affordable are cesspitts. The teacher has to live within the city limits for job reasons. That limits her options.

I bought a house in a less-fashionable suburb of Detroit (Warren). I looked at houses in Ferndale, Royal Oak, Oak Park, parts of Detroit and Southfield, the communities I wanted to live in and I couldn't afford the houses or the property taxes. I started looking in Macomb County and found the property taxes were lower than Wayne or Oakland Counties. I found the perfect house for the right price and in a convenient location.

that poor nurse in CA with that crazy expensive housing market, well it's like NYC. A fixer upper is hundreds of thousands and just about nobody can enter the market unless they have two incomes, get help from family, etc. A friend of mine in Chicago bought a 2 flat 30 years ago for 30,000 and that two flat is now pricing out at a million bucks. Gimme a break. He made a pile of bucks and he also knows that he couldn't buy his own house now.

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0433/kamenetz.php

Found the article while I was looking for a statistic. Did not find statistic but I heard on the radio the other day that the average New Yorker pays 60% of their income in rent. Not sure if I remember that correctly.

when a $1600 studio apt is reasonable buying becomes an idle dream

how so many know how hard others work, and how much they should be paid?

But then again only 15% of San Diegans can.

Most of my collegues are renters. Those that do own homes bought theirs years ago before the housing market and cost of living went through the roof. My supervisor, who with her husband make good money, just bought a house in Chula Vista. Their monthly mortgage payment is $4,200.00!

I too could barely afford the house payment, then throw in the utilities and two car payments....on a teachers salary...grim.....Had to feed my wife, kids and pets....not to mention buy all the school supplies the county didn't provide me with for my classroom.....

So I left teaching for awhile and went back in the military...I'll return tot he classroom when I finally retire from Uncle Sam...

how much SHOULD a nurse get paid? $30k? $50k?

Maybe I should phrase it this way:

How much should someone get paid who goes through MINIMUM 3 years of school (RN), 4 years of school (BSN), 7 years of school (ARNP)?

How much should someone get paid to watch after the terminally ill, giving them medications, being their comfort when family members are too busy to visit, wiping their behinds, helping them urinate, turning the chronically ill every 2 hours to avoid bedsores, assisting them in bathing and other personal hygene needs?

How much should someone get paid to comfort a child with a sick parent? To comfort a parent with a sick child? To listen to the agonizing details of a family member's illness from family members who get no support from anyone else around them?

How much should someone get paid to save a life---any life---when it needs saving? To administer medications and know their indications and contraindications? To adequately gauge medication limits in conjunction with current medications and current health problems?

How much should someone get paid to insert a central line? To hydrate someone via IV? To assist in surgeries and other medical procedures? To intubate someone who can't breathe? To rescutate someone who is dying? To feed someone who cannot feed themselves? To medicate someone who is sick?

---

In 13 days I start a Nursing Program here in Washington. I've already attended one year just for pre-requisites---200-level classes in Cellular Biology, Chemistry, Microbiology, Phlebotomy, Anatomy, Physiology, Math, Psychology, Nutrition. In 13 days, I will start a 2 year journey "just" to be an RN. I have another 2 years after that to get my Bachelors, and another 2 years after THAT to get my graduate degree in nursing.

The classes I'll have to take include pharmacology, surgical nursing, psychology of nursing, greif, legal issues, as well as learning every major and minor disorder of the human body and how to treat it.

Yes, I think I will well deserve $30 bucks an hour upon graduation. Yes, when I become a Nurse Anesthesiologist (my ultimate dream), I do think I will deserve at least $50+ bucks an hour.

Why?

Because it's a skilled profession.

Would *YOU* trust someone making $10 an hour to save the life of your child when no doctor is available? To watch over your loved one in ICU, monitoring vital signs, feeding, hydrating, washing, medicating, observing?

Doctors don't do that---they come in, say hello how are you and leave. The other 23.5 hours of the day, NURSES are who watch over patients. Who notice subtle changes in pallor, range of motion, oxygen intake, urine output.

Nurses are among the most overworked workers that I've ever heard of. There is a MAJOR nursing shortage that is reaching crisis level. More nurses are needed now---not just to keep up with our aging population, not just to keep up with our expanding population, not just to keep up with the growing numbers of under-and-uninsured who have no means for preventative medicine. No, we need to keep up with the THRONGS of nurses who are retiring at breakneck speeds because they're overworked and yes, underpaid.

THe Department of Labour estimates that by 2010, there will be 1 MILLION ADDITIONAL NURSING POSITIONS OPEN---and that's NOT including the nursing positions already needed to be filled currently.

So how much should *I* be paid to watch over the family members that you can't care for? To help your dying child die a much more peaceful death? To rehabilitate your mother after major surgery? To teach the family members how to properly care for an ill relative?

Or perhaps we should do what so many third-world countries do:
In the hospital and need a bath? Family members will bathe you. In the hospital and need food? Family members will feed you with food they have to provide. In the hospital and need new sheets? Family members not only will change the sheets, but they must provide them as well. Of course, family members don't have to take quarterly classes on hygene, aseptic methods, blood borne pathogen classes, sanitation classes, so the spread of disease will be even more rampant than it is now.

So please---don't hate the nurses for making what is, at most, a meager salary for the jobs they perform that NO ONE ELSE CAN DO.

I am proud that I will be a nurse in short order. I wonder if any of the "too much money" crowd would have the audacity to tell a nurse, as they or a family member is in an emergency situation, that they think the nurse makes too much money and should stop bitching about not making enough money. Tell that to someone as they comfort your family members in their last moments of life.

See what kind of reaction you get.

:)

I'm not a teacher, but I feel the same way about people who yar yar yar about teacher's and their Oh so high salaries (not). A good friend of mine's husband is a HS Spanish Teacher and he gets paid SHIT. PLUS he's required to take classes over the summer (on his own dime) just so he can be Eligible for a raise---not to "get" the raise---but to be "eligible" for the raise. Of course, three summers of classes later and still no raise---but keep teaching our little shithead no-manner kids. Be their mother and father and teacher and friend and counselor and role model and disiplinarian AND don't you EVER...EVER suggest my child isn't the brightest, most well behaved, morally-sound little hooligan or I'll sue your pants off.....

It just really cheeses me when someone can sit in a chair and tell ME--a trained professional---How much *I* should get paid, and that I get paid too damn much (which I don't).

Right now, I'm a health care assistant--licensed by the state. I'm a phlebotomist as well. I get a good salary---but not something I could live off of for the rest of my life. But then what do I know? I just know how to find a vein and draw blood. I can just go to a patient who's critically ill and draw blood for tests that could save their lives. Feh. Why, I should be happy to get minimum wage :eyes:

I see so much derision here for Doctors, Nurses, Lawyers---anyone with a higher degree and skills---yes, there are bad Doctors. Yes, there are bad Nurses. Yes, there are bad Lawyers. But what about the good ones? THEY are in the majority, yet we're constantly scorned for doing our job--doing the job that I'd wager 95% of the population not only doesn't have the skills to perform, but doesn't have the DESIRE to perform.

When I did my phlebotomy internship last winter, I was in the room of a terminally ill patient. She was dying of cancer. Her family sat there as I drew her blood. Had every negative thing to say about me. The tourniquet was too tight (it wasn't). "It looks like you're holding the needle wrong" (I wasn't). "Why do ya need so much fukkin blood jesus christ you're going to drain her dry" (well, she needs to be tested for clotting factor, for fever of unknown origin, a liver panel, as well as other things that are far too complicated to explain to someone who gets upset because they can't smoke in the hospital).

THen the nurse came in to change the IV bag. The nurse noted that there was some drainage from a wound that had recently been surgically repaired. Family member says "Oh god don't change that dressing. You assholes will charge me $50 for a new bandage. Here, take my snotrag instead"

So I'm sure those people are the same as people I hear on DU, and in the 'real' world who suggest that I'm on the path to riches and wealth by being a nurse (hardly) and taht I'm only in it for the money (There are far more lucrative professions that I could do that have no daily interactions with dying people, vomiting people, people who can't bathe or feed themselves, people who can't void unassisted, etc).

I'd like to see some of these people and their "You're paid too much" attitude when a family member is two seconds away from dying and the only person who can (and who does) help them is a nurse who *GASP* gets paid $60,000 a year.

Oh the horrors.

PS--which of these three deserve more than they make per year:
A Nurse
A Teacher
A CEO of a company who never sets foot in their office, doesn't know the name of anyone below VP, sees nothing wrong with screwing their employees so they can make a fat profit, and sees nothing wrong with skirting environmental and labour laws so that they can squeeze more blood from a penny

Me--I have a problem with #3 getting several hundred million a year. The first two---Let 'em earn more. THey deserve it.

I'm in the same boat as you (except I'm on a waiting list and won't begin until next year for my 2 years of clinical work). I already have been a teacher and frankly I could continue my education to a master's level in early childhood and still make no more than $35,000 a year. I'm not that altruistic. I couldn't even afford to teach preschool if I wanted to (to make $9 bucks an hour, plus my own childcare costs is like working for almost nothing, so I'm up for a social service position related to early childhood instead.

Right now, I'm going to be lucky to pull in $30,000 with my current degree and I'm going to have to work too while going through my clinical stuff in order to be an RN. Yeah, I think studying my ass off in a field where immense compassion is needed combined with people's lives on the line that will likely be understaffed entitles me to $30 bucks an hour minimum.

and teach college. I will never have much better salary until I do.

I'm in nursing school (2nd semester) as well! All told, I will have spent nearly 5 years getting the degree - 2 years for pre-req's and then 2 1/2 in the program (it's an accelerated MSN program for people with a non-medical BA/BS).

I just got back from my first day at the VA where I am doing my clinical rotation this semester. I spent only 6 hours there and only took care of one patient and I'm exhausted. I loved the work, but you use just about every brain cell and muscle you have...not to mention staying on your feet the whole time. Added to that, is of course, the fear of making a med error and killing your patient.

I didn't get into this field for the money, but a decent salary does help. We're lucky here in the SF Bay Area - nursing salaries here are among the best in the country. Even at these salaries though, the VA alone (one hospital) is short 90(!) nurses.

Great post, btw! :hi:

I go to my orientation tomorrow...classes start on 9/20. I'm astounded...no, OVERWHELMED by the stuff I have to learn first quarter. The books---my god could they make the books any bigger?

I got a "Pocket Guide" for something---diagnostic tests I think. a POCKET GUIDE that's 900 pages long. That's one hell of a pocket!

Two weeks into the quarter I start doing clinical at a nursing home. Basic stuff--Maslow's Need Hierarchy stuff---but I guess that weeds out the squeamish who think only CNA's have to deal with poo-poo and pee-pee ha ha!

Question---how did you learn to do stuff like insert cathaters? Surely you can't practice on each other like we did in phlebotomy class.....surely they don't make you do it the first time on a live breathing patient either....manequins? highly drugged street people? I'm so curious to know :)

the times they are a changin

. . .have changed that bar a while back. The threshhold for allowing the purchase of housing was raised to accomodate two things:

1) The consumer society has created a sense of entitlement in housing among fully employed people. They all want a house like the one their parents have, but the parents were on their 3rd house and moved to the bigger digs because the family grew.

2) Due to a combination of the "stigma" placed on buying small pre-owned homes, and the profit margin on larger homes, builders quit building lower cost starter homes. So, the market for homes shifted to higher value purchases.

The banks had to change their criteria, or there would have been no market for their mortgage products. Besides, they only want the money back. They don't care how hard you have to scrimp and scrape to get it to them.

To their benefit, it's now becoming standard practice for people to have to struggle to KEEP, not to get, their home. So, folks make ridiculous sacrifices for no apparent reason, when all they had to do was buy lower and enjoy life more.
The Professor