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VHamrick Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 10:39 PM
Original message
Cat Stevens a Terrorist??
I didn't live this long to believe this crap.

I did a title search for "Peace Train" on Rhapsody.

Rhapsody says "Peace-obsessed songwriter Cat Stevens represents the Sensitive Man of the 1970's. His voice always breaks at the right moment."





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DAGDA56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. This is the same guy who got hostages released from Iraq...
...prior to the first Gulf War...I can't believe how racism has become policy in this country. Yusef Islam is not a terrorist threat!
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BigMcLargehuge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. Leave Yusef Islam alone
Edited on Tue Sep-21-04 10:50 PM by BigMcLargehuge
Peace Train is a wonderful song, and since his conversion he's put out some beautiful kids records about Islam.
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. Cat Stevens became a Muslim.
The last I heard, he thought that fatwas, like the one to kill Salman Rushdie, were okay.

That doesn't actually make him a terrorist in my book, but it lowers my opinion of him considerably.
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BigMcLargehuge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. have you ever read his defense of that positon
that he was asked if it was allowable in the Islamic religion to mark a man like Salman Rushdie for death. He said it was allowable according to the Koran. He did not defend it, he did not endorce it, he did not suggest that the Mullah's who handed down the fatwa were correct.

The Press blew it all out of porportion.
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I don't really care much about
him one way or another, but my personal reaction to ANYONE who defends those things is that they are condoning murder, and justifying it with their religion. I do not care what religion is involved. Many people use their religion to justify murder of others, and as far as I'm concerned they're always wrong.

But as wrong as I think he is, I would not call him a terrorist for that, and agree he's entitled to go on believing whatever nonsense he wants to believe.
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BigMcLargehuge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. People use religion to justify murder all over the world
and all manner of religions as well.
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Whoa. We live in an entire society that condons murder for
state reasons, called captial punishment.

And in a country that invaded a non-threatening nation on false pretenses.

Can you say hypocritical?
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DAGDA56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Please look into that story a little deeper...
...I seem to remember he was misquoted, saying at the time, he was new to Islam and did not know enough to comment on the correctness of any ruling from such a high ranking cleric. His failure to condemn the fatwa outright resulted in headlines such as "Cat says kill Rushdie"...if he was in favor of such an action, it seems to be an anomoly in a life that has been devoted to fund raising for charities (such as Islamic schools in England and financial help for orphans in Kosovo)
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Jesus Christ, we know all about some of those muslim "charities"
give me a break.

They are about as legit as Pat Robertsons po' children plane.
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. He can go fuck himself.
Yusuf Islam is a man with a past. As Cat Stevens, he sold millions of records worldwide and was at the top of the charts; his performances filled large arenas. Then in the late 1970's he gave it all up, sold all his musical instruments, changed his name, and became a Muslim. He entered into an arranged marriage and fathered 5 children. His daughters were raised to wear the veil and his sons to shun Western culture. In 1989, his remarks drew him into the Salman Rushdie controversy, when he says he was misinterpreted as endorsing a death sentence on the writer. Yusuf Islam was further rumored to be a fanatic and a student of the Ayatollah. He says he's a devoted father, founder of Muslim schools, and fund raiser for charity.

http://www.npr.org/programs/wesun/features/2000/jul/000730.yusufislam.html

He raised his daughters to wear the veil??? What a fucking idiot.
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BigMcLargehuge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. my grandparents raised my mother and father to be
"good catholics"

are they "fucking idiots" too?
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I don't know, I've never met them, but I can say anyone
who raises female children with this kind of oppression, especially when they can't blame it on their own raising, is a double fucked up fucking idiot.

And a fucking idiot, too.
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. what kind of nosensical logic is that?
Just because you do not agree with another culture's way of life you label it "double fuced up fucking" idoicy?

You can't project your sweet-as-apple pie safe American existance onto their culture, any more that you would like it the other way around.

tres bizzarre.
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Look here, I was raped at six years old.
Edited on Tue Sep-21-04 11:34 PM by jdjkkse
I haven't been "safe" a day in my life, just luckier on some than others.

Cat Stevens, by the way, is from the SAME CULTURE I AM, so there is no projection going on.

You can call me the biggest muslim hater ever on the earht if you want to, honey, but I will always, ALWAYS, come out loud and clear in opposition to the islamic fundamentalist oppression of women, mainly because I know I have the freedom to lift my voice and speak the words that muslim women would get killed, tortured or imprisoned for saying. You should educate yourself and read some of their stories, starting with "Meena, Heroine of Afghanistan" before you go spouting off about their "culture".


Here's a little on Meena:

After graduation, Meena intended to study law so that she could fight for women's rights in the courts. But by then the liberal atmosphere that had fostered her determination had dissipated. Three years earlier, Zahir was overthrown by his prime minister and cousin, Mohammed Daoud, who was aligned with a pro-Soviet party. Gradually Afghanistan lost its independence, and the government became unstable. Fundamentalist groups began interpreting every democratic reform as a sign of corrupting foreign influence, and emancipated women were their first targets. By 1976, when Meena entered the University of Kabul, its female students had to contend with a reign of terror as random attacks were carried out on them. The followers of the Islamic radical Burhanuddin Rabbani threw acid on the exposed legs and even the faces of women walking across the campus -- the beginning of hostilities that continue to this day.

Meena did not let these attacks stop her from attending the university or from speaking out for women. The resolve and bravado for which she was soon to become famous showed itself in a family drama culminating that year with her marriage. Meena was 19 years old. Because according to Afghan tradition a girl is considered marriageable at 13, the pressure from members of her extended family for her to wed had reached a fever pitch.

Meena's standards seemed impossible to fill. She did not believe in, nor would she consent to, a bride price, let alone an arranged marriage. SHE WOULD NOT WEAR THE VEIL; though polygamy was still the custom in many households, she insisted that her husband should take no other wives; she demanded that she be allowed to continue her studies; and she made it clear that she planned not only to practice law but to hold her own political views as well. Eventually an enterprising aunt found Meena an acceptable husband in Faiz Ahmed, a distant cousin who was a doctor with radical views, including a belief in women's rights. Because he agreed to all her conditions and she liked him, Meena agreed to the union, though in the beginning she was not in love with him.

If over time she would come to love Faiz, she never agreed with his Maoist politics. She seems to have rejected ideology altogether, favoring instead the complexities that inform the lives of real women. Still, she watched and learned from her husband's political activism. Increasingly, it seemed to her that the courts were not the only way to better women's lives. She decided to start a political organization for women. Influenced by her husband's organization, which under a pro-Soviet regime had to be clandestine, she found a way to build RAWA while keeping its membership secret. Interestingly, her method was similar to one used by American feminists of the late '60s and '70s: a constellation of small groups. Though Meena met with all the groups, they did not meet with one another, making it easier for women to keep their membership secret and thus evade the disapproval and draconian retaliation of their families. This approach also afforded great intimacy, which helped give its members an uncommon strength and courage.

http://www.afghanwomensmission.org/fundraising/chavis_book.php

Meena was assassinated in 1987 at the age of 30
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. No, I was just responding to the faulty arguement you put forth
I had no idea you had personal involvement, how could I?

I have read those stories, and I agree with you about freedoms to speak out here.

My point is, we have no right to impose our will on them, any more than they have on us.
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. We have already imposed our will on them.
As is happening in Iraq, every time we de-stabilize a gov't, the women there pay and pay and pay.
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VHamrick Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
15. Just Listen to the Song
You people would cane Ghandi.
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Stevens has renounced his previous incarnation
and shit all over his songs.

He doesn't hold them in very high esteem.

He's a fundie wacko, they are all the same, whether xtian, likud, muslim, a wacko is a wacko is a wacko
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VHamrick Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. but
it's still a very good song. sigh
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
20. why not see what he has to say . . .
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Like the fundie xtian support of the war in Iraq,
The surface and the substance are worlds apart.
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VHamrick Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. He isn't
a terrorist.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
23. He came to speak at our University and at the end
did a completely acoustic set... not to be forgotten

:)
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
24. I was just going to post when I saw yours
How in the world can Cat Stevens be on a list? I mean this is the guy who wrote peace train and father and son. We have to get these idiots out of office and soon.
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SheWhoMustBeObeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
25. Yusuf Islam quoted in NYT 5-23-89:
<snip>
The musician known as Cat Stevens said in a British television program to be broadcast next week that rather than go to a demonstration to burn an effigy of the author Salman Rushdie, ''I would have hoped that it'd be the real thing.''

The singer, who adopted the name Yusuf Islam when he converted to Islam, made the remark during a panel discussion of British reactions to Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's call for Mr. Rushdie to be killed for allegedly blaspheming Islam in his best-selling novel ''The Satanic Verses.'' He also said that if Mr. Rushdie turned up at his doorstep looking for help, ''I might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like.''

''I'd try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is,'' said Mr. Islam, who watched a preview of the program today and said in an interview that he stood by his comments.

<snip>
http://www.nytimes.com/books/99/04/18/specials/rushdie-cat.html

Article linked from the Salman Rushdie listing on wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salman_Rushdie

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sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
26. I heard him speak a few years ago
when he came to my college, and he said some things that were very unsettling and bordering on anti-semitism. It's too bad--I've always liked his music. I'm sure he's not a terrorist, but I don't think I have many nice things to say about the man.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
27. Basic logic says that

singing about peace thirty years ago doesn't prove you don't wish anyone harm today.


This information tells nothing about who Yusuf Islam is today:

Rhapsody says "Peace-obsessed songwriter Cat Stevens represents the Sensitive Man of the 1970's. His voice always breaks at the right moment."


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