What's the deal with Eminem?

Let me start out by saying that I have a visceral dislike for rap and hip/hop and so have never taken the time to listen to him.
He has been criticized for being mysoginistic and homophobic but my question is: How do critics know that what he's saying is actually what he believes (when it comes to these topics)? How do we know he's not holding up these kinds of statements for everyone to see how outrageous they are? People do that all the time...make outrageous statements for the purpose of showing what bullshit they are.
Like I said, I don't know having never listened to him but it makes sense to me.

It is pretty fucking awesome.
I think it will change your mind.

But my mind is not set one way or the other about the criticism he gets for the issues I asked about. that's what I'm trying to get at here.

It'd be great if you were a little more opened minded about the genre. If you got into it and decided it wasn't your taste that's one thing. But most people decide they don't like it without ever hearing more then what they hear on clear channel.

there is the occasional song that might catch my interest, but for the most part, I just don't like it on the whole. That's not a judgement call on it being "bad" or "not music," it's just generally not to my taste at all.
But I am curious about the issue of his "offensive" lyrics and statements...I really want to know from people who listen to it a lot whether they think it is similar to how someone makes a completely outrageous or offensive statement when they really don't believe it in order to make fun of the people who DO make those statments and harbor those beliefs.

For example, there's two lines where he says, and I'm paraphasing:

First line: "I hate homosexuals"

Second line: "I'm just kidding, I want to see if you'll take that out of context."

Sure enough, people take that first line as proof that he's a homophobe.

They disregard context and artistic license.

Nobody goes around calling Jimi Hendrix a misogynist because he went around singing about how he was going to shoot his old lady.

I think he is another hasbeen type Dennis Miller or whoever that would not be a loyal Dem. He has a reason for what he is doing and it is for Eminem not the Dems.

His lyrics alone show him as creative, nuanced, intense and paint a picure with a shotgun-like punctuation of music. I don't like Rap but Eminem is a real deal along with a handful of others that transcend the genre.

about him. Didn't approve of his homophobic attitude and his abusive nature towards others.

as being for Dems? Can't people be against Bush without proclaiming loyalty to the Democratic party?

i trust the dems almost as much as i trust bush, which isn't much

i'm still voting for kerry though

But I got help from a 17 year old in understanding him.

He uses music as a kind of anger management. And yes he knows what he says is outrageous and that is part of the point. But he tells you all of this right in his music. He knows he's like a modern Elvis -- a white boy making money off of black music.

But, as he says in one of his songs, if any of the things he sings about re: violence were true, he wouldn't have custody of his child.

If nothing else, I don't think you can dispute that he is a good dad. I respect that.

There is a kind of honesty in his music. He says things just to get a rise out of people, but I do believe it's a lack of filtering on his part, not an attempt to present something false, if that makes sense.

He wouldn't have the emotional impact that he does with people if there wasn't real emotion behind it. People will eventually spot a phony and stop buying his records.

I appreciate his contribution to the campaign, just as I appreciated Green Day's contribution (I blast "Idiot America" every time it comes on the radio.)

I honestly don't see how a message that is essentially a plea to "get out the vote" can be seen as controversy for its own sake.

Emimen - White America - 2002
http://www.gnn.tv/videos/video.php?id=12

or trust him to date my daughter, but I sure like the video. There have been a few of his songs that I've really liked (and I'm 47 years old! :scared: )

I never cared for rap, but saw an eminem special on MTV or VH1 and came away thinking he is pretty cool and a good democrat. Very talented young man, of course I don't know what the current flap is about.

I'm convinced he made it with sincerity. I didn't detect any ridicule of the voting public whatsoever - just reflections of a society that has reached the end of their endurance and tolerance for *'s tyranny. I can put aside my disdain for his misogyny and homophobia long enough to let him have his say at this important time. If he pulls that crap after November 3, I'll resume giving him hell!

He made the art.

The art speaks for itself, not for the artist.

Actors aren't their roles.

It's brilliant. I'm no fan of hip-hop or rap, I'm old enough to be his mother, maybe his grandmother, and I was stunned by its brilliance.

Sent it to all my old hippie friends who agreed.

that a lot of people who might be misunderstanding what he's really trying to say with his offensive statements and lyrics will discount something like this because of it.
That's what I'm trying to find out here...do those of us who just don't like this kind of music dismiss it out of hand without trying to see what the artists are really trying to convey?

this new generation needs this
their music speaks to them
it is so easy to get "into" rap music
being a snob about it shuts a door for you
it is rolling and rythmic like regge
don't be afraid

And the more I listen, the less I like it. Eminem is no different that any other rappers, except that he's white. So what?

Whatever you hear said about rap/hip hop are the same things that were said about rag time, jazz, avant garde, and rock n roll.

They are too loud, monotonous, the lyrics are stupid, etc. they will lead to violence, incest, tooth decay, whatever. Ditto for other art forms that undergo revolutionary changes.

Eminem, to my ear, rises to the top. He has a talent. He is musical. Not all the folks who make music are musical. There are those who take from music, and those who add to music. Not everyone who listens to music can hear through the genre, and feel the soul.

--IMM

In this song, Eminem basically kills his ex-wife and gets his young daughter to help him throw her dead mother's body into the lake for a "swim."

I don't think I'd feel good about my father if, when I became old enough to understand the lyrics of the song, I realized that he had written something like that and included me in it. Even as fiction, it's a pretty disgusting thing to involve a kid in.

But that's just my opinion. Here are the lyrics: http://www.eminemworld.com/sslp7.html

By the way, despite this, I totally love his new video. He may be or have been misguided in some ways (or possibly I just don't get it), but I have definitely gained some respect for Eminem for Mosh.

Why can't people see that he's playing characters? His alter-ego is called Slim Shady (something that people do in hip-hop) - an obnoxious brat who makes fun of everything and everyone, including himself, and times gets violent - but with a cartoonish element.

If you listen to his albums you can see the voice change from song to song. He has serious songs and 'Slim Shady' songs.

He's basically three people in one - Marshall Mathers, Slim Shady, and Eminem (who unites the two). Then he takes on the roles of minor characters as they are needed in various songs.

But the serious songs, he sings as Marshall Mathers, and it is obvious. This current song is such an example. There is no Slim Shady in it.

The one song that you could claim crosses the line is 'Kim' - it's hard to say he's in the Slim Shady voice in this song. It's serious - it's about killing his girlfriend - but it is a dark and brilliant song. But even within this song you can feel his passion and his love for her...it's touching in a strange and real way.

I just don't see why his daughter has to be one of them, why in the story she has to help push her dead mother into the water. He can pretend to want to kill all the women in the world, but why involve Haley? I just think it's wrong that he made her a part of it. Even if it is just a story.

that leaves you just sitting there, your mind thoroughly blown, thinking

what the FUCK was that???

and i mean that in the best way possible

I agree...

An amazing and brilliant song...

and that comes out in his art in a distorted, exaggerated form. But art is always about more than the artist ... it is also an expression, a reaction to the world as the artist knows it. While one can gain some insight into the personal demons of Mathers through his music, it would be unwise and inaccurate to presume he is always exactly what his lyrics project.

That being said, it is nonetheless clear that with "Mosh" Mathers is making it pretty damn clear where he stands and why.

Anyway I gotta run down to Target and get one of those black hooded jackets. See ya later, and don't let the personality blind ya to the message.

I don't give a shit what he says. He is worthless of an opinion.

Everything he has said up until now makes whatever he says from now on irrelevant.

One of my biggest confusions in life is WHY it is so important to people to dissect the artist rather than just accept the art itself.

I realize Eminem has not been the poster child for Rap--or any other art form--but he's created something here that has an impression on poeple. He's managed to move people--and that is a huge accomplishment for anyone who creates.

Can't we just celebrate that?


Laura

but alot of the things are only offensive if youre blind to what hes really trying to do.


3DO

and I'm happy he's on our side. I'll discuss the implications of a cultures' music another day. Eminem will help get out the vote and for the next 7 days that's what matters to me in the public sphere.

I think Mathers, like most people, has some feelings that are sort of screwy.....prejudiced, unfair, etc.

I believe that mathers uses his music to exorcise those feelings, a sort of therapy, if you will.

I don't generally enjoy rap, but MM is tremendously talented...We're getting this album because of the song, and the video, Mosh.

Edited to say: I just parroted ROBG's post. Oops.

If you are talking about his new video, he is angrier than hell with this administration, has expressed it through his medium, and wants to inform the young people to get involved and vote.

Don't diminish his talent. I have listened to rap through the years because my son plays it - there are many songs I liked even though I prefer rock. Eminem is truly gifted, understands and mocks our corporate corruption, prejudices and system at times - he has grown up over the past few years. I hated his homophobic and let's kill Kim shock phase but he has settled down and seems to have control over his inner demons.

This is one of his best.

Eminem "White America"
http://www.gnn.tv/videos/video.php?id=12

This was released when pro-right wing bullshit was very high in the United States, in the year after 9/11. Eminem doesn't seem to be kissing up to the right wing in this one.

Some people wonder if he's sincere. We can't know for sure, but look at Mosh and White America. He seems concerned about what he sees going on.