Tantrum throwing little brats

Exactly one week from knee surgery I'm in line getting some coffee this morning. Little brat from hell junior wants a donut. He really WANTS a stinking donut. Of course everyone in the store hears him except his pinhead mother.

Junior isn't getting his way and is bouncing around pitching a fit. Decides that's not working so throws himself on the ground. Unfortunately, nini's post op knee is in the way as he is falling. I get nailed in my knee and endure a pain I wouldn't wish on anyone :cry: - well maybe the mom of that brat.

It was all I could do to not pick his bratty a$$ up and ram him head first through the glass windows of the store.

What does the mom do??? Buys him a FREAKING DONUT to shut him up!!! :mad:

Parents.. It really is ok to discipline your kids. They can be happy and behave at the same time. Rewarding them for behavior like that is the most insane thing. The little shit got his donut and I've got swelling on my knee that is killing me.

I think Matcom's taser post may be a good idea on such monsters.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=1991113

I don't care.. bratty kids need to kept out of public and the hell away from me. This kid not only misbehaved, he caused someone (me) physical harm. The fact they didn't know I had just had knee surgery doesn't matter.


flame away if you want.

I'm sorry to hear about your knee. :(

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that parents don't discipline their children. I don't think it's really the fault of the child, I think it's the fault of the parents. Kids are wonderful, but parents who raise brats are the problem.

boy that would've gotten her attention.

Should've said "I'll have my lawyer contact you. We'll work it out with your insurance."

Big wake up call.

On several occasions I have requested that the parent put a leash on their little shit in order to embarass them into doing something. It pisses them off, but I sure feel better. And the people around you will thank you.

for lack of a better word. Wouldn't have been worth the effort.

LOVE the leash idea though! I'll have to remember that.

When I was little I would mostly behave in public, because my mom would tell me that if I wasn't quiet right away, she'd tell Santa not to come this year. As silly as it sounds to me now, it really did work. That lady should take a class on how to discipline a kid.

they know how to behave when it benefits them so I'm not completely convinced it's ALL mom's fault - though she should be sterlized and forced to move out to the middle of the desert.

No fucking way! You're spot-on with every word.

Thank you.

Dicipline is a good idea. But people are afraid of being a childabuser


CB

Parents do their kids a huge disservice by not teaching them manners. Nobody likes the kids, even their relatives. I have a nephew who I honestly can't stand and it's because his mother let him walk all over her when he was small. Now he is 21, snotty, arrogant and obnoxious.

I work retail and I see these beasts and their ineffective parents every day. It doesn't mean you have to beat your kids - they can learn to behave without it. Consistency, rules, firmness, guidance - I personally think it's easier to have well behaved kids than it is to deal with brats all the time. And yes, I have 3 kids so I'm not just talking out my ass.

Sorry about your knee. :hug:

... who WILL HAVE HIS WAR, no matter what, who will storm off when reporters ask him the most mildly challenging questions... Well, with that kind of example...

Professor 2

It's not the kids' fault... it's his parents' decision to raise a self-centered brat.

Sad sad sad.

but to be honest I was trying not to fall down from the pain.

I'm beginning to believe in forced sterilization.

He really NAILED me at full throttle and his "guardian" didn't even bother to say anything (I said a few words to them)

I have a nine year old and although my kid is not perfect...
she never throws tantrums, or acts like an idiot in stores
(at home yes, just not in public)

I don't understand these people who let their kids run around like wild animals.

it was full of merchandise. THAT will get their attention.

Ever been somewhere late and theres mom & dad with the kiddys at a midnight movie or somewhere you don't want to hear a kid srceeming because they should be in bed.These are the parents that don't want to have the kids mess up thier life styles,so you get to annoyed. don't get me started !

She bought the donut. The best way to deal with a tantrum is to ignore it completely, which always looks just lovely in public. I can't even count the number of nasty looks I get. You give in, even once, and it you've not only lost the battle, but the war. A tantrum in public can completely demoralize you, so I don't necessarily blame her. But, she absolutely did the wrong thing, and she will pay in the future, if that is any consolation to you :)

I hope your knee gets better soon. Sending you plenty of healing vibes.

When the kid is disturbing everyone around and in danger of becoming a hazard, the best thing to do is scoop Junior up and leave. Ignore it at home, by all means, but when you're around other people, it's not fair to inflict your screaming, shrieking, thrashing child on them.

Sometimes the scooping and leaving is just the attention they're really yelling for. They're bored and they don't want to be there. Well, tough.

It has worked. My oldest vary rarely ever throws tantrums in public anymore. I don't care if it "wasn't fair" to the other people while I was teaching him that tantrums get no attention from me. Being in public sometimes means you're exposed to annoying people, and not just children. I'm talking about genuine tantrums, and not a sick, tired child who really needs something. I'm talking about the "I want it now!" or "I hate it here, I want to leave" kinds of tantrums. I guess I've been lucky that they haven't ever poked, hit or bumped another person, so that issue never came up for me.

My youngest is still a baby, so the ignore the tantrum doesn't apply to him, yet.

Ignore at all costs. A kid who is flailing gets put in a cart or stroller. Kids can be super fast though. One minute fine, the next they are flopping about on the floor. If this were my kid, I'd probably make him/her apologize (all the while *I* was repeatedly apologizing for my kid's behavior) and reiterate how it is NOT acceptable to hurt other people. Then we'd be going home and there would be some sort of priviledges removed. I cannot believe that woman went and bought her kid the doughnut after all that! Unbelievable.

It happens only rarely, and hasn't for a long time, but you know what? Even taking the child out I have STILL gotten dirty looks.

I expect appropriate behavior from my kids. They know this. I model appropriate behavior so they can learn by example. If one of them loses it in public, they are removed AND they are reminded that we are not the only ones there at the store, restaurant, or wherever, and that other people's comfort does matter.

And still I have received dirty looks, as if the fact that a tantrum started at all is somehow indicative of bad parenting. Tantrums happen. How the parents deal with it is what makes the difference.

Parents should also try not to bring their children out when they are overtired/undernapped/hungry/sick/whatever unless it's unavoidable. That's just asking for a tantrum to happen.

My sister left many shopping carts with groceries in them to remove her tantruming son from the grocery store.

When he was able to verbalize, she discovered that what was happening when he was tantruming was that he felt very insecure, like he was coming apart in chaos. She found that if she sat on the floor with him, wrapped herself around him, held him tight (literally held him together), and sang, the tantrum would quiet in no time.

This never did work with her daughter, though.

All kids are different.

The point is that, unless it's an emergency, I don't know why I should be subjected to someone else's kid's tantrum in public.

From what my parents told me...if your child acted up at a restaurant, the Germans would ask you to leave.

So my parents made it clear to me, don't act up...or else. My Dad use to say, "Children are to be seen...not heard.", only half jokingly.

Here in a America as a young adult, I worked as a waiter. I found that we have no such thing here in the states. But I learned my own ways of getting this brats to shut up and sit down:
A splash of hot soup is very effective.
Or
An "accidental" knee to the side of the head when they get under foot.

Flame me...but I never did anything that would seriously injure a kid. Just enough for them to realize, "hey...if I run around like a nut...some discomfort may insue."

It may seem cruel...but it works 95% of the time. Especially since it has become so "unbearable" when we discipline someone else's child.

I yelled at a kid in a restaraunt once to sit down because he was running around and got under a waiter carrying a big tray of food. His mom got in my face.. tough shit little junior can't play here when the staff is at risk from him running around.

the waiter thanked me later because of course he couldn't yell at her since he was working.

as long as I was behaving...they would be quick about their business.

A parent has to understand...even the most disciplined child has their limits. Making them sit through two hours of their parents shooting the shit with their friends at a restaurant is just asking for problems.

instead of jokes about murdering children.

Really, parenting in public is a damned if you do, and damned if you don't kind of thing. Thank you for this post.

I don't have children, but I will, and I hope people will be a little more patient with me and them than the attitude on this thread... :(

I will be the first to admit that a screaming child can be more than a mild irritant. But there are so many things about being in public, and being around other people that are annoying. Even the best parenting doesn't completely guarantee that no tantrums will ever be thrown, and every kid, as every human, has their bad day.

It's harder to not shoot a look or make a comment when someone else's kid is bothering you. I'm guilty of it. It is sometimes harder to be a decent person. When you're in pain from knee surgery, I imagine it is impossible, so I don't blame the original poster, though :)

There's also no distinct boundary as to what people call "tantrums." When my son was about 3 month old, I met my hubby at an outdoor cafe for lunch. While ordering the food, I was in line behind this woman who was being a total bitch (for no reason) to the cafe employees. Unfortunately, she sat next to us outside. My son was making what can only be described as "happy baby noises"- little squeals and coos, but not very loud at all. She looked over at us and said (loud enough for everyone in the area to hear) "People who can't control their children should just stay home..." I was apalled and speechless; my husband, however..... Let's just say it got kind of ugly!

frustration with misbehaving children and BAD parents is justified.

I don't have a problem with parents who are trying to control their kids. I know it's not always easy when kids get tired etc...

BUT, monsters like that kid.. they don't deserve my patience.

a child's head. That's nasty in my book. :shrug:

obviously we all have varying degrees of humor.

I can find the humor in that and not condone any abuse to a child.


:shrug:

If someone here is truly condoning abusing a child I would be one of the first to stand up to them.

I don't find "humor" like that funny. Hence, I think the thread is devolving into something nasty. Does that answer your question?

where there is no tone or inflection. So, it looks a lot worse than a witty interjection in person.

You haven't seen flames on DU until you've seen the jokes about curing a pet's behavior by throwing them in a sack in the river. Watch out.

.

I'm sorry, I should have made that more clear.

Everyone that has a kid goes through it...

The rude parents have ruined it for the rest of us!

grab the back of the neck in what we came to call the "spock shock" ...yes an immitation of the vulcan nerve pinch. It was highly effective and we knew if we got that, when we got home, or at least to the car, we not only wouldn't get the concession we wanted that was the cause of the tantrum, but we'd likely be rewarded with an ass whoopin' also. It may have been brutal, but it was highly effective. Many old timers at church would tell my mom and dad how well behaved us kids were because we didn't dare.

Now I have a grandson...and when he's with us, if he starts in, I don't wail on him...but I do get him out of the store and leave. But I am also consistent with him at home ...standing him in the corner, etc. He's known from an early age that Mom and Granny are pushovers...but "Paw-Paw" is loving, but not to be messed with.

Ern

While the traditional role of a child in Germany is indeed " to be seen, not heard", that stance seems outdated.
In rural areas maybe, but for instance a place in my neighbourhood would see itself confronted with a guest-walkout, should they dare to throw out a family with children.

As long as Skinner is re-doing the board, he should rename ATA as well.

Sorry for the threadjack.

...and at the checkout magazine stand, is the latest "Parent's' magazine.

The headline above the masthead reads: "The quickest way to stop a temper tantrum"

I read it out loud, and my friend looks at me, and with a straight face says:

"Plastic bag."

I thought the guy behind us was going to bust a gut from stifling his laughter.

no kidding..

to places that would strain his patience beyond endurance, such as the supermarket. If we did have public behavior problems we would remove him from the situation.

He's also learned the distinction between public and private behavior--acts fairly well in public until he gets home. Then he's a li'l demon.

it is hurting more than it was but hopefully it was not damaged any more.


thanks

girl I lived with had two boys, one of whom had a nasty habit of throwing a tantrum every night to stay awake a little longer.

She'd basically turn the television on, put them on the couch to sleep, and go into her room with the door shut.

The little shit would get up, run around, get into things, make noise, and eventually scream that he wanted his mother. It was horrible. When he finally got her attention he would ask for something and she would give it to him (ice cream, popsicles, etc).

Not really the same as going to store and meeting up with parents there. The only other thing I can say is if I were straight, living with them would have been an effective method of birth control.

I think she tried it once or twice but then found out what happens is we LEAVE the place.

Seriously. I would have turned around and left. No fucking donut for him (I am speaking as the mom). Pitching a fit gets you some down time to think about things in this house. NOT a donut.

And when I say no, it means no, not whine until I say yes. That also doesn't work around here.

It's true some parents need a spinal cord transplant. But I actually do feel sorry for the kid. He's learning that works. What happens 99% of the time to kids like that is they get older and they keep acting that way (only in bigger ways) until someone smacks them down and HARD.

Unfortunately it never happened to bush.

My mother in law told me once that my husband was three and was pitching a hell of a fit and she looked at him and thought "either I teach him NOW with LOVE that he won't always get what he wants in life, or someone else will teach him LATER and it WON'T be done in love."

She started that day to teach him that he doesn't always get what he wants. He grew up to be a responsible, mature, non-self-centered man.

I can thank her for that.

wish all parents were like you. :thumbsup:

I have tried to be very firm with my son. He learned early on that if he did not behave in public, we would leave wherever it was, and there would be no rewards. However, some little ones don't have very good controls ( such as toddlers) and I think that parents of toddlers deserve a little more understanding, since little ones are still learning self-control. ( which actually some adults fail to have.) And parents do get tired. Very tired.

On the other hand, there is not a parent alive who has not at some point lost their focus, and let a little chaos reign or made the terrible dark humor jokes that parents need sometimes to stay sane. I remember a couple at a winter party once who, when asked where there kids were, said, "in the trunk." They were joking of course, but as someone with no kids, I was horrified by their comment. Now I understand that parents too need a little dark humor. :)

I have joked to other parents (out of earshot of my daughter) about selling her to gypsies and how they'd probably send her back UPS after two days.

You could have told the child that he really hurt your knee. What may not have influenced the parent, may have had some effect on the child.

I lived with a friend last year when times were tough for me. For that, I'll always be thankful, but I could have done without the children.
First of all, the youngest, who was three at the time, was without a doubt the most ill-behaved child I've ever witnessed. His first reaction to the word "no" is to scream at the top of his lungs. This, he'd keep up with for nearly ten minutes straight. And my friend wondered why I didn't want to go out to eat with his family.
Quite often, the mother expresses her frustration with the son behaving so bad. As I was living under their roof, I could never say "Well, if you'd actually GET UP and STAY UP in the morning, instead of getting up, giving your son a bowl of cereal, and then GOING BACK TO BED until noon, your son might just be a little more behaved." That, and STOP GIVING THE CHILD WHAT HE WANTS just to shut him up!

The older child, her daughter from somone else, simply lies through her teeth all the time. (Takes after her mother.)

And they wonder why I never visit anymore. Every time he calls me, I hear the screaming of the son (he's almost 5 now) in the background because he didn't get what he wanted. I'm not exaggerating, either. Every time.

As I said: no flames here.

(Now, my sister's children are MUCH better behaved. Even her son, who she says is a holy terror, is a feaking ANGEL compared to my friend's children.)

Now what should I do for my 1,000th post? Maybe I should change my name...

and she occasionally has tantruns in public. Two-year-olds tantrum, and they don't just do it at home. It's normal.

I usually pick her up and leave when she has a tantrum in public, but that isn't always possible. Also, as someone said in another post, if my daughter was having a tantrum because she wanted me to leave, and then I picked her up and we left, her tantrum would have been effective. Tantrums must *never* be effective. Therefore, of course, this mom shouldn't have given her kid a doughnut. But she probably bought him a doughnut to shut him up because she could tell you were angry. That doesn't make it OK, but I understand why she would do it.

One last thing - kids don't have to be kept out of public just because you don't like them. All kids are sometimes bratty and it is hard to predict when it'll happen.

can be really hard to take when you're already frustrated and angry at your kid. It can be easy to give in, which is a BAD idea. Great post :thumbsup: Children who never throw a tantrum are usually a combination of great parenting and personality type.

then yes, they need to be kept out of public.

What if he had knocked over an 85 year old woman and broke her hip?

Sorry, others do NOT have to tolerate misbehaving children.


Kids can be great. I met two little girls at the Seattle airport a couple years ago and we spent the couple hours we had together, reading, drawing etc.. I exchanged emails with their parents and we have kept in touch. I send them software from my job all the time. These kids were sweet as could be and well behaved. I don't have to tolerate brats when I know it is possible to raise children to the contrary.

She NEVER should have bought him a donut.. nothing justifies that.

I did raise a kid so I know the challenges.. It's not easy, but as a parent it is up to you to sacrifice for the good of society when the kid acts up.. not expect society to look the other way.

My daughter is behaving like an angel right now. Can I promise that if I have to take her grocery shopping with me that she won't pitch a fit at some point? No. She hasn't been having many tantrums lately, but she does have them occasionally. Should she have to stay home all the time because she might at some point have a tantrum? No.

The child was misbehaving, no doubt about it. But he didn't *intentionally* hurt you. You could have been hurt by an adult who bumped into you. Would you then say that adults who bump into people from time to time don't belong out in public?

I agree that the mom should absolutely not have bought him a doughnut, but I see why she did. She caved. It's hard to put up with everyone's nasty looks when your child is misbehaving, and sometimes you just want to shut them up. I have never given in - it's something I feel strongly about - so my daughter doesn't have tantrums much anymore. But I have wanted to cave from time to time.

spoiled rotten snots.

Your child sounds normal. I don't have a problem with a normal kid testing the limits. That's to be expected. It's the wild out of control monsters that I won't tolerate. Others should not have to be exposed to them.

I have sympathy for good parents trying to control the normal stuff.. I'll even smile at them to acknowledge their frustration.

The evil ones - that's another story.

Shes a beautiful red headed fifteen year old now. Shes happy, well mannered and all around friendly kid....BUT

When she was about three,(she is hearing impaired) she used to go to the fridge and point to what she wanted..I mention the deafness because she couldnt talk at three. Nothin'. BUT, she would point when she wanted something to eat or drink.

She lets me pour her a cup of milk...then she shakes her head, no. She points to some orange juice, and, sighing, I get her some. She sips it, and pours it down the sink, while Im doing something else..I hear her do that, and Im fumin now... She..SMILES...one of those shit eatin grins as if to say, yeah, i OWN you mama...

so, i cheerfully plop her up onto the counter, give her a kiss, (shes looking stunned) get her a BIG ol glass of water, and pour it over her little head, SLOWLY.

Problem solved. I ask her if she thought that was abuse, and she said she doesnt remember it. I will never forget it!

sounds like something my mom would have done. You got your point across in the best way.

good Mama!!!

I know a ton of people that want to pretend that life didn't change because they had kids. They want to take junior to the fine restaurant or shopping for hours on end....but junior doesn't like that...junior wants mommy and daddy's attention and they want to be home.

I feel for you and as a parent I would not have tolerated that behavior from my children and in fact if they even act up one bit they have had a "day out" return to being a "day in".

I don't know what it is with some people but I no longer speak to a former college buddy of mine because of the way she treated her kids. She would take her toddlers to Home Depot to pick out carpeting and get all pissed off because they were acting up...after 3 HOURS!!! To me that is torture for the kid and the other customers and she wondered why no one wanted to be around her anymore.

and the reviewer wrote about how in a previous column he had complained that his experience at one restaurant was ruined by bratty children who had chased one another among the tables.

Evidently he had gotten flamed (by snail mail--this was before e-mail was popular). Readers accused him of being a stuffy old bachelor who hated children.

His response was that he was far from being a stuffy old bachelor, he had brought up three young children alone for several years after his first wife died, and his children had never done anything like that. In fact, they had never even attempted to do anything like that.

I've watched my mother, a former kindergarten teacher, interact with small children, including my nieces and nephews, and she simply has this sense of confident authority that says, "I'm the grown-up here." She's not stern or mean--but the kids seem to know instinctively that they can't get away with any nonsense.

The mistake I see parents making most often is wanting their children to "like" them. They forget that children may resent what their parents do for a few minutes or even a few days, but that the bonds are really strong, and it takes a lot of abuse for a child to start truly hating a parent.

they have to be the parent...and being the parent means having them scream these phrases at you...

" Your cheap" ..."I hate you"..." Your mean!!!"
"Go Away".... "It's so unfair"....

and learning to laugh and relish the moment ...cuz you are in absolute control of their little lives!....Bwhahahahahahaha


My husband used to find it hard to have our kids be mad or upset with him...then I taught him to learn to love the hate and realize it is for a good cause.

It is the parents. My nazi sister-in-law will stop and drop everything the minute one of them starts to whine. They are embarassing to be around, if she is there. When I have taken them out, I do not get that shit behavior. They know Auntie won't have it. I actually let one of them think I was going to leave him in a store once when he was little. He was pitching a fit over some little trinket. I said very loudly that I was embarassed by him and that he was spoiled rotten. I took the older kid by the hand and walked out of the store. Cured both.

My SIL has commented on how well behaved her children are when I'm around. It all started when the oldest, who was 6 at the time, tried to play me off of her mother, talking loudly about how much "prettier" and "nicer" I was than her mom. Then she got pop out of the fridge after being told (weakly) to not do so, and sassed her mother. This was after about 2 hours of increasingly bratty "testing" behavior. I told her I would *never* have talked to my mother that way, and that her mommy had given her LIFE so she deserves nothing less than LOVE and RESPECT. Much whimpering and tearfulness ensued, but she apologized to her mommy and sat in her lap for about half an hour. It's a wonderful thing to be a child's friend, but not at the expense of having them understand how to behave, and how to treat others with respect.

like I do not have the right to critizes. But then I go and spend a week or weekend with them. I always come back disgusted and happy in my choice not to breed.

Plus the SIL who can not keep the nephews in line is a hard-core repuke catholic. She sent me an e-mail today full of happy smiling "buddy-Jesus" pictures to brighten my day. What was my brother thinking!

I told my best friend's BIL that I found his children delightful, and I meant it. The kids were naturally wriggly and boisterous, but they knew about the whole concept of "inside" voices, and only needed to be reminded once, they asked me polite funny kid questions about my life, and asked me very nicely to play a game with them. They knew that he said/she said sibling rivalry squabbles didn't hold any water with their parents, so they kept conflicts at a minimum, and resolved things themselves.

I'm describing these four children because I think some parents posting here think that criticizing poor or immature behavior is unfair or unreasonable.

I do not dislike children, but am very happy that others are having them. Being around friends that are involved and loving parents is always a good thing.

You said: "I'm describing these four children because I think some parents posting here think that criticizing poor or immature behavior is unfair or unreasonable."

Criticizing *poor* behavior in children is fine. Criticizing children for being immature is not fair as children are by definition immature! And making sweeping generalizations about children isn't fair either.

I'm not complaining about your specific post about the four kids - but reading it helped me realize exactly what the problem is that I have with where these threads seem to lead sometimes.

Afer all, the "Tantrum throwing little brats"-shoe truly fits!

But on reflection, this *is* the lounge, so why drag them in here?

:toast:

I watched it for about 10 minutes before I wanted to wring the parents' necks. Knowing how hard I work with my kid, it's that much harder that there are parents around who let their kid run the show.

Sorry about your knee, and I'm sorry that mother was so oblivious that 1)she didn't see her kid knock you in the knee, and 2)she bought that donut after her kid was acting like a brat.

not necessarily because they are "brats." My three year old acted out yesterday in a store not because she is BRAT, but because she is three and she was tired and that's what three year olds do. I removed her from the situation as quickly as possible - but according to you, I shouldn't take her in public ever, lest she shock your delicate senses.

Sometimes children act out because they are tired or hungry or have had medication that makes them antsy. Bad parenting isn't necessarily the culprit.

As for the mother giving the kid a donut - what do you think she PROMISED the child before going into the shop? How could she go back on his word -plus the little brat may have been hungry. Should she discipline him? Absolutely. She may have been distracted and didn't notice the situation. It happens. We are thinking about unpaid child support, or the cost of the dentist or a million and one other things and sometimes we miss the infractions our children commit.

Perhaps if you have such an aversion to children in public, you should avoid being in public yourself.

The behavior of the kid screaming for the donut was not one that had been told he'd get a donut when they went in the store. He saw the donuts and decided to insist on getting one. She was not distracted - she was a parent who had NO control over her child. Believe it or not the fact you may be a good parent does not mean there are not horrible parents out there. You seem to assume quite a bit considering you were not present at this event.

I will continue to go out in public as I please - will I go to Chuckie Cheese? hell no.. but I do expect to have parents dole out a bit of discipline in public.

when directed toward a child. I am certainly not comfortable with someone calling a child a "brat."

I don't make a habit of going up to people and going off on them.

I have exceptions to every rule though. Extreme pain will do that to me.

I'm sure junior didn't give a damn what I said once he got what he demeanded from his mommy.

let's hope those who shouldn't, know who they are and stop before they do us all a disservice.

i'm thinking you may agree, Donna? :evilgrin:

You may take your Screaming Brats to these two places. NOWHERE else in public.

Problem solved.

:-)

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Damn me to hell for expecting some kind of civility when out in the world. Damn me for not thinking it's ok to have this child's behavior affect me or everyone else there in a negative way. I guess everyone else's reaction in that store was wrong too. We were ALL wrong to think junior was out of control!

For the millionth time... I do not have a problem with normal kids pushing limits - that is completely normal. I sympathize with the parents of those kids.. that's part of life. I had the same issues when raising my own kid.

Wild, unruly kids that physically interfere with others are not ok.


I guess you calling me a little brat is ok though? Sounds like you're not practicing what you preach eh? Actually, I'm not a little brat.. I'm a BIG ONE!!

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nt

Yes, she has kids.

Some kids are brats, some parents are bad parents, and some bad parents have kids who are unrelenting brats. Yes, it happens.

nt

:P

I tell ya... knowing what you have been through with your knee, I would have punted that shithole through the window, and shoved the donut up his anal orifice.

:loveya:

punt a child through a window?

And here I thought DU was for liberals, not for child-killing hate-filled maniacs.

Oh, sputter sputter spit spit spew sputter... Oooooh, I'm so angry now, I can'ts stands it no more.

I hope a 7 foot bricklayer with muscles the size of Idaho claims you as his little love puppy and shoves concrete reinforcing bar up your asshole, just so you can finally feel what it's like for a parent, like me, of perfect children, to hear such hateful words about other people's children.

:evilgrin:

Keep it up! :D

Are there any here?

the term "brat" as I am? I don't get this entire thread. The kid had no idea she was in pain and had just had surgery. He bumped into her while acting like little kids do. Perhaps I should take my two and tie them down in the basement until they are 18 so as not to offend anyone?

over myself - and reply in a different way. My opinion is mine to share or not.

101er - I hope you now what I mean, love.

If you don't "get" this thread, maybe you should be down there instead...

hopefully, it'll take your mind off the pain.

"Little William, with a shout
Gouged the baby's eyeball out.

Stamped on it to make it pop.
Mother cried, "now William, stop"

Lotta controlling people here, have to hop in on child haters who start their own thread, and start scolding.

idiotic stupid rants people are bringing out on people who say such apparently utterly evil things as "parents should teach their children to respect other people, so that when a child is getting out of control he is removed form the situation instead of letting him run hellbent around so he doesn't bump into people and fuck up their already fucked-up knees."

its like being in a circle of friends in a public place, bringing up a subject in your group, which you all agree on, and suddenly having swarms of fundies swoop in and take over your conversation, and then start scolding and huffing and sniffing that they don't like what you're saying.

I think they've all put me on ignore long ago!!! :evilgrin:

That's what pisses me off - the way they put words in our mouths, and the way they tell us what we feel about children and blahblahblah.

I don't get it. I love kids - I've been doing children's and youth ministry for 20 years. Obviously, I love kids, and understand children.

But the - I don't know what to call them, other than "immature sensitive types" who can't tell fact from fiction, and who can't give up their little pet agendas and sick-psychological needs for even one moment to see the reality or the truth of something - they need to ....

ah, hell, lost my train of thought.

Anyway, they piss me off, becuase what they do is so totally uncalled for and, I'll say loud and clear, yes I will, what they do is immature and whiny and exactly the behavior we are decrying in children.

for example:

Person A: I was in a restaurant, and I feared that a child was going to cause one of the waiters to stumble and drop either a lot of hot food, or heavy plates on the child, because the parents were letting the child run all over the place.

Knee-jerk reactionary asshole Person B: How dare you impugn children!! HOW DARE YOU!! FUCK YOU!! Double FUCK YOU! This is a liberal board, and children must be children! I guess I should just tie up my (two) (three) (four) children and leave them in the basement until they're 18 you fuck, so you don't have to be bothered seeing my little rotten child bastards and ruining your oh-so-selfish-perfect-day. Yeah, right. Well, FUCK YOU! Not gonna happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Person A: No, I was afraid that the child was going to cause a problem with the waiter. The parent wasn't showing any responsibility, and I could tell the waiter was geting scared and annoyed...

Knee-jerk reactionary asshole Person B: Oh yeah - I forgot. Children are ANNOYING. SORRY!! I guess we aren't perfect enough for you. Would it help if we just strangled our children?! WOULD IT?!!!???!?!?! I'm actually crying now because of your hate, so I hope you're happy, you evil fucking child-hating worm. Oops, I guess I meant to say "Oh so civilized perfect being who has so much to teach us parents trying to get by every day". Well, fuck you! My kid doesn't do anything wrong.

yes, it would be VERY helpful if you strangled your children.

can I watch?

Seriously, I agree totally, there's really something wrong with that compulsion to jump into a conversation that had nothing to do with you and start browbeating everyone, hijack it and make it into their topic. AND, to top that off, have no compassion for ninii who got hurt? Some of them did empathize with her, but the really nuts ones act like SHE's got a nerve for getting her knee in the way of a screaming out of control kid.

I make no bones about it, I can't stand kids. Gee, ya think thats why I DON'T jump into threads that are opened as chat about kids between people who like kids??? Its THEIR conversation, not mine. Jesus H Christ on a bicycle, get a grip.

Shit, now someone's gonna swoop in and chew me out for making light of the Lord.

On edit, I forgot to say that I am impressed that you work with kids. I know myself, I could never stand it but people who do it well, I respect. Just don't ask me to sub for you!! ;)

So there ya go, guess they all know more than you.

I've gotten that lecture from an Ueber-Parent simply for flashing a warning glare at a kid who was about to take two fistfuls of cookies off the plate at church coffee hour, who had a history of grabbing fistfuls of cookies, taking a bite or two out of each one, and leaving them all over the church social hall.

"You scared my son!"

Right, the Perfect Little Angel is six years old and has never seen anyone frown before. The Perfect Little Angel has never been taught not to plow his hands through a plate of cookies. The Perfect Little Angel has never been taught to finish one cookie before starting another.

Another time the church janitor had pushed some folding chairs into a disorganized pile in the corner and not cleaned them up before coffee hour, and a little girl of about three started climbing on them. I grabbed her off for safety reasons, she wanted to climb, so she let out a yell.

This brought Flaky Mom running. "What are you doing with my daughter?" (Flaky Mom was unable to keep this same child from running up and down the aisles during the service.)

"She was climbing on the chairs, and I pulled her off."

"You have no right to touch her!"

Okay, Flaky Mom, I thought. Next time I'll just let her get crushed in the pile of chairs, if that's what you prefer.

Most kids are okay if handled properly, but I think parenthood corrodes some people's brains. Either that, or the parents are passive-aggressively using their children to wreak vengeance on the world. :-)

Contrast this attitude with what happened when I stopped by the home of a neighbor in the small Oregon town where I lived for seven years. She was caring for her three-year-old grandson during the day, and when I knocked on the front door, he immediately opened it. I said, "Oh, Tommy, you shouldn't open the door unless your grandma says it's all right."

"Thank you," Grandma said, coming up behind him. "I tell him that, but he forgets, so it's good for him to hear it from someone else."

That's the attitude!

<<<Okay, Flaky Mom, I thought. Next time I'll just let her get crushed in the pile of chairs, if that's what you prefer.>>>
___You should have said it, not just thought it!! :D

<<<<<<Most kids are okay if handled properly, but I think parenthood corrodes some people's brains. Either that, or the parents are passive-aggressively using their children to wreak vengeance on the world.>>>>>>>
____passive aggressive. or other character flaw.


ONe time, this woman goes into a store and left the two kids, boys about 7 and 3 or something out in the hall. I notice the older one is harassing the little one. Like, mean, pinching and stuff. I don't remember now, but I remember knowing it was way over the line. When mother comes out, she sees little one crying, and big one jumps in to say the little one had done something bad< I don't remember what. Mother starts yelling at the little one for being bad, blah blah blah.

So I jumped in, said, "No thats not what happened, I saw the whole thing. Your older kid is lying." I can't stand to see someone get punished unjustly.

I think I left her in shock. LOL

you quoted me directly. How dare you accuse me of being reactionary. I have NEVER been someone who thinks my children do nothing wrong. In fact, quite the opposite is true. I am very quick to pull my children from a restaraunt if they act up so as not to disturb other patrons.

My point is that children have to be exposed to the public - how else do they learn? But, labeling a child a "brat" is not the solution to the problem. And she admitted that she called the kid a fucking brat. I would not be very kind to someone who ever said that to my child, I can guarantee you.

Plus, and listen up, this is a tough one: HOW IN GOD'S NAME WAS THIS CHILD SUPPOSED TO KNOW THAT THE WOMAN JUST HAD SURGERY???? If she wasn't in pain, it would have been a mere nuisance and this thread wouldn't exist. Got it? Cause I'm a little bit p.o'd that you quoted me.

I don't take my children to 4 star restaurants and I don't take them to places fequented only by adults, but dammit sometimes, I just need a fucking cup of coffee and when my kid sees a donut, she's gonna yell for one. That's what kids do.

By the way, I can't wait for my children to be exposed to youth ministers who say "fuck" as often as you do. What a great "fucking" role model you must be.

1) I didn't quote you. I looked through your posts just to see if I might have accidentally quoted you, and, by golly, nope. Nothing in your posts similar to mine.

2) Obviously the child has no idea who had surgery and who didn't. Neither would any adult. There's no way anyone would know. That's why we have things called "manners" and "etiquette" and teaching our children to respect other people - because we never know who has a bad ticker, a bad knee, frail bones, etc. That's why we are supposed to be careful and pleasant around people - because one just never knows who might be easily injured, easily hurt, or whatever.

Is it the child's fault for running around so madly and whatnot? No, of course not. It's the fault of the parent for improper teaching.

I'm just glad my parents raised me to think "I might hurt someone around me if I do something stupid/annoying/out-of-control" instead of being taught to demand "I can be as out of control as I want because it's other people's responsibility to adjust to me".

Number one: you did quote me because I'm the one who said, "should I just tie them down until they are 18" (I was being sacrcastic) and Number two: you are assuming that the lessons taught are always adhered to. Now, when I was a child, the lessons were strictly adhered to because if they weren't it would be about a week before I could sit down again. Perhaps it's leniency on my part, but I absolutely refuse to raise my hand to my child and strike her so that she will fear me and obey me. If that means that sometimes her behaviour in public is not as mannerly as you want it to be, then too bad.

I work very hard to instill good manners in my children, but by golly sometimes the right fucking donut comes along and they forget! Haven't you ever gotten so excited by something that you forget your head. Again, if I beat their asses once in while, I am sure they would fall right in line just as I did, but I am choosing a different method and I'm sorry if that's an inconvenience to you.

I can understand parents putting up with tantrums in public places if being in that place is absolutely essential. Is getting morning coffee "absolutely essential" if your child is screaming and annoying your fellow citizens. No, it is not. Forego the coffee and take the child out of the situation. Without the donut.

If a child is sick and screaming and you have to take him or her to the drugstore to get the medication, that is an emergency. Allowing the child to disturb other people is unfortunate, but understandable.

If you have not had a single chance to go grocery shopping and you have no food in the house and your child is screaming, that is an emergency. Allowing the child to disturb other people is unfortunate, but understandable. However, the parent would clearly want to make the trip as short as possible, perhaps saving the intended monthly stock-up shopping for another time.

Coffee is not an emergency.

Walking around the big unnamed but politcally-incorrect discount store with your friend and your screaming child for 45 minutes with an empty cart is also not an emergency. (This was the definitive experience for me one time as I ran into the same mother and screaming child three times in one shopping trip. The child never stopped screaming, and the mother's cart was always empty.)

...think your kids are as cute as you do.

As soon as I can stop laughing I'll finish the comment...

OK, first off, kids can go into meltdown and it just happens no matter how good of a parent you are. How you deal with it is what defines you as a parent, in my mind. You can just let the kid do as they please and hope that nobody notices or you can explain that tantrums don't work and, in fact, they keep you from doing fun things--then STICK TO YOUR GUNS and remove the kid from the situation completely if the tantrum goes past that point.

Part of bad behavior can be attributed to age, but part of it can be attributed to them being put in a situation they are not ready for. To give you an example, my kid (at 7) has not been to certain "adult restaurants" because I know she'd be bored to death and probably do something inappropriate. Generally, my rule of thumb, is every star a restaurant has adds five years to the minimum required age of patrons. Four star restaurants are no place for kids. PERIOD.

If you put Chucky Cheese at no stars and a place with an extensive wine list and a la carte menus at four stars you start to get a feel for my philosophy... My kid is fine in places where the food comes quickly and the noise level is average. She is NOT ready for quiet conversations and cloth napkins. She is not a monster, but she IS a kid. It is her JOB to be a kid and it is my job to keep her from being a kid in places where she's gonna annoy hell out of others.

Now, as for the kid knocking into you, I am appalled at that Mom for several things, but primarily for not having apologized profusely to you right after she regained physical control over her kid. I dunno what planet she comes from, but here in the Midwest we teach our kids to say "excuse me" and to apologize if they need to.

Mom set a horrible example there, and it makes me think she is not gonna do well at raising a kid that has some manners if she doesn't know any better herself. My Dad always said about training horses and dogs that "You gotta know more than the animal." I'm gonna offend some folks, but parenting is that way too.

Something else that I'm gonna crit that mom for is not having control on that kid physically. If I'm understanding this correctly, that kid was running about and flailing about in a place of hot coffee? Good lord, that kid could have been burned seriously had he knocked into a patron with hot coffee and had it spilled. I shudder to think! This is not just a case of an annoying kid, it is a case of a parent with no brains AND no manners.

Nini, I am sorry that kid nailed you, and I am sorry that you are hurting. I hope you feel better soon. I can't apologize for the kid or the mom--but I sure wish I could.

Laura

I especially appreciate your line Part of bad behavior can be attributed to age, but part of it can be attributed to them being put in a situation they are not ready for.

That nails it pretty much.

Responsible parenting isn't just giving them what they need; but also not giving them what they don't need.

I am amazed at how seemingly irretrievably our community ties have broken down. Children are PEOPLE. I never thought I would have any, but as a young adult befriended the offspring of my colleagues. My rule #1 with my friends was "THIS relationship is between ME and BABYKINS." Growing up in the 50's, our "extended family ties" were indistinguishable from "blood." You'd be REPORTED for walking down the sidewalk, wearing shorts and imbibing Coca-cola! ;-) My G_dkids are in their 30's now, products of our "hippy generation."

After having my own I had to call a dear friend, a DECADE later, whose daughter often stayed with me when he was concertizing (we always had a great time together cuz she was a FABULOUS, BRIGHT, HYPERACTIVE, albeit disturbed kid and I so enjoyed her company), to apologize. At that time childfree, I KNEW what HE was doing "wrong." She didn't behave that way with ME!! Once I truly UNDERSTOOD his behavior and the dynamics, I truly felt ashamed of having been so judgemental. To his credit, he ALWAYS respected my rule #1 (when Babykins slapped his glasses off his face one day as he retrieved her and I WHIPPED HER OUT OF HIS ARMS, sat her down on the stair next to me for a "little talk," he wisely looked after them disallowing any appeals from her).

The "disconnect" I read in so many of the replies makes me so sad. What is missing is RESPECT and TRUST... Verbindung. It does take a village to raise a healthy child. Community mores...

Played Digiridoo and English horn duets on the street last week. I'd been hot to try the combo and my Doo-playing friend said, "I Doo the streets. Layer your clothing and get over yourself." I dood it. The KIDS were the ones who made their parents stop. We headed home on the U-bahn and as I got on, an 18 month-old started SCREECHING and LAUGHING as he pointed at me! Heads turned at the "kid-making-noise" got to hear our discussion. I asked him what was up, as his father picked his jaw up off the floor, and told him he was born MUCH TOO LATE to be carrying on so. Apparently he didn't give much creedence to such things...

What I read here is an "us and them" paradigm. It's just so sad. :cry: