We need a group for people who expect children to behave in public

but which group will not be accesible by people who think their children are perfect, and who therefore think that, thus, any mention of wanting screaming kids removed from restaurants, or shopping-cart-wielding kids be harnessed, or other child-based annoyances be put to a stop with a little discipline and love, and etc., are all evil, vile things to say becuase our children are our most precious commodity and how dare we suggest that little Johnny stop smashing his shopping cart into my ankle, I thought you were a liberal you child-hating ass.

just adorable and so cuuuuttteee when they scream, throw food and do all those other darling things. Its everybody ELSE'S children that are a problem! :silly:

I was talking LONG DISTANCE to a friend yesterday and her 12 year old grandchild was screaming and generally acting like a brat


thisi one of my pet peeves----bratty undisciplined overbearing kids and the adults who allow it

...You must live on the other side of my redneck-cannot-control-her-terror-tot-to-the-point-of-me-despising-a-child neighbor.

Welcome to the neighborhood :)

as long as we also get a forum free from self centered people who think that anything less than robot-like automatons are horrible brats put on this earth solely to piss said self centered person off. Sound fair?

I don't mind the thread that was posted about the donut screaming brat. That's not what I'm talking about. Nini would be welcome in the non-self centered forum, at least by me.

the mother of five

grandmother of twelve


great grandmother of five

Kds are KIDS not tiny little adults

but they need to be acting like human beings




that is all

not advocating bratty behavior.

That is all.

I hate them" and shit.

Totally.

Anyone with eyes to see would instantly realize that, in my post, I was calling, in fact, for the eradication of children.

Yeah, my tone was oh-so-negative against children.

:eyes:


YAWN....

I don't like bratty behavior either, but the tones sometimes make me cringe a little, as a parent. That's all.

Maybe that will explain why you didn't realize I was not merely accusing you of being negative toward children. My post was mocking your tone. I realize I shouldn't mock. That is a fault I have, I readily admit it. But, sometimes it is one that is hard to suppress.

child to me. Let's just try to find some a meeting place about this.

any criticism of any child and/or parent.

And that's okay. I don't agree with you, and I think you have a tendancy to knee-jerk reactionism, but that's your special way.

And, of course, it's ironic you would post this, because, of course, the response you gave is precisely the kind of response I was being very sarcastically humorous about. The kind of response that goes like this:

Rabrrrrrr: I had an encounter with a child today who rammed a shopping cart into my ankle repeatedly. When I asked the child to stop, he started crying and his mother came over and hit me with her purse and called me a stupid sonofabitch. What is it with parents who can't be bothered to teach their children how to behave in public?

Cally: You're a child-hating jackass; I can't believe how much hatred you are spewing toward children, who just act like children because they are children. Damn you. Damn you seven times times seventy times for your anti-child stance. I guess you'd rather that everyone just be sterilized so you can live in a perfect child-free utopia.


You see, I'm not anti-child. And I think most of the people who bitch and moan about shitty parents here aren't anti-child. They're anti-shitty parents. I hope, with this post, that you have seen that there is indeed a difference between wanting children to be raised properly, to be respectful, and to act with manners - and children who are out of control, have no parental leadership, and grow up never realizing that they're intolerable and immature behavior is utterly wrong.

I'm not sure why you think that any post or comment about an unruly, disruptive child whose parents let him/her get away with it becomes, for you, a unilateral screed against every child who has ever lived, is living, and will live.

it's just so.......deliciously ironic that you would post what you did in this thread. And thus, as the original post pointed out, I think it owuld be cool to have a separate forum in which those of us who wish to complain about children and shitty parents - and **legitimately** complain about them - can do so without some knee-jerker jumping in and villifying us.

Thus, you know, the irony, as I keep pointing out. Makes me think that you didn't even bother to read my original post. Which is also, you know, kinda ironic.

You suggest. I'm serious...use the search function and prove it.

I didn't know that I had made an enemy but I guess I have. So be it.

I shudder when I think what makes you respond this way to children's behavior. I have never done anything to you. I didn't know you disliked my opinions and gathered up all these feelings about me. So, just fight your own opinions, build up the resentments without posting, and then just attack. This isn't debate but anger.

Even if you are misreading my posts.

Do you see the irony between what I said and how you are responding?

It's pretty clear.

And kinda funny.

I never said anything about disliking you, or having anger toward you, nor of having anger toward children. Nor did I say I disliked your opinions. Nor have I "gathered up feelings" about you. Nor am I building up resentments. Nor have I attacked.

Those are all things you, Cally, have brought into the conversation yourself. I merely pointed out that you were tending toward over-responding. And, ironically, you over-responded to me.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=238
Well, you know, I've noticed you tend to take personally any criticism of any child and/or parent.

I had no idea anyone noticed what I posted. Maybe you should have sent that to me personally.

This is your pseudo make up Cally response:

Cally: You're a child-hating jackass; I can't believe how much hatred you are spewing toward children, who just act like children because they are children. Damn you. Damn you seven times times seventy times for your anti-child stance. I guess you'd rather that everyone just be sterilized so you can live in a perfect child-free utopia.

Never would I say or post such a thing. Period.

Whatever. I appreciate that you say you think I'm 'neat'. I always respected you. I don't understand where this attack came from. It's done. You think I'm a whatever and I think you attack without justification. Done

:yourock:

I don't think people really understand how hard parenting is until they actually parent. Yes there are parents who do a terrible job and brats are what they get. But most people try their best without a lot of training.

I'm with you Pithlet

I KNOW they are...



"JAMES!!!!! GET OFF THE BOOKCASE!!!!


Seriously, I have a couple of great, well behaved kids, but all kids have their down days. :hi:

just to annoy other people and piss them off? What kind of parenting advocate are you! ;)

feed them in public and irritate the hell out of prudish people. But don't tell anyone....;)

a proud public breastfeeder here!

:hi:

:yourock:

and you roll!

I weaned my youngest recently, and I miss that already :)

You..gasp..exposed your breast when you were nursing your child. You know, they have drapes and stuff.

(This is sarcasm)

Go lactivism!!!

:yourock:

I hope you're kidding.

I've got a 3 and 5 year old. As far as I'm concerned, basic human consideration mandates parents controlling their children. If you see ones who don't and their kids are a nuisance, verbally drop a hammer on them. Why do we need a group who's stated purpose is to act like a reasonable parent? Are we at a point where we can no longer assume people will act with a moderate level of awareness and consideration?

Gyre

their kids and to have a place (the forum I proposed) in which people can complain about an "incident" without the sudden appearance of self-righteous people (like we had on this thread already, and which I knew would happen) who think that just because we might complain about an incident, or even "in general", that we must hate all children and how could we be so selfish and that we want children to act like robots, blah blah blah.

So I'm with you - I, too, believe basic human consideration mandates that parents should control their children (and let me say, before the other person chimes in, no, I don't mean like Nazis or drill sargeants).

I, too, ask the question that you do: "Are we at a point where we can no longer assume people will act with a moderate level of awareness and consideration?"

and I'll happily complain about bratty child incidents - including ones that may involve my little ones - as precious as they are.

Last week - took my boys to the Science Center, where they were pleasantly well behaved I was quite proud of them - my oldest one even offered to share the earthquake exhibit when he saw another child waiting) - only to be astonished by a 7 year old who was pushing all the other kids out of the way to get to another exhibit. Actual pushing - and the mother did NOTHING! I would have had my child out of there so fast his feet wouldn't have touched the floor... ARGGH...

Of course, I try to take my same 4 year old to get a haircut, and you would have thought we were shoving needles under his fingernails. A lot of apologizing and a big tip. ARGGH...

And i ask them where their parents are.

If the parents protest, I verbally, but politely, chastise them, as well, with my hand in my pocket, on the trigger of my pepper spray, if needed.

Are we at a point where we can no longer assume people will act with a moderate level of awareness and consideration?

We're there. And have been for some time.

An example...on another list a woman was complaining about her in-laws. She couldn't understand why they were upset because she made them wait outside the house until her precious little darling woke up from his nap. In the middle of winter. Wouldn't let them in until he got up so they wouldn't disturb him. And she was getting support from everyone else for that attitude. Guess who'll be running that house before he's 3. (She just couldn't understand why anyone would expect her to inconvenience the child for ANY reason)

She's not the only one. We see it so much nowadays and it is just maddening. Yes, kids need to be kids, but adults also need to be adults. How do kids ever learn to share and be part of a community if all they ever see is people bowing and scraping to THEM?

I rarely ever took mine shopping unless I went early in the morning when they were fresh or right after a nap for the same reason. Fed and awake, you have less chance of misbehavior. I NEVER, ever bought anything they asked for while we were out so they never came to expect it and I don't think mine ever had more than 1 tantrum in public. (Saying "little boy, I think we need to find your mother" as if I didn't know him was enough to end it) We didn't take them to adult restaurants until they had been to eat-in McDonald's and the like enough times to know how to behave. Just like learning to walk before you learn to run. We did our best not to put them into situations where they were likely to be bored or lured into being brats. Allowing them to learn in increments.

Were they angels? Hell no. In fact, I could take them anywhere and got complimented on how well they behaved but get them home and it was Jekyll/Hyde time. And I thought the youngest would probably end up floating his school down the river.

More than I meant to write when I started this. Sorry about that.

I like how you put it. Kids will be kids, but part of growing up is learning that kid-like behavior isn't helpful behavior. And our responsibility as adults is to teach them how to properly behave in public and, thus, toward other people.

You had a very good approach to raising your children, and I bet they will grow up to be pretty darn cool.

don't put a kid in a position where you know you're likely to have to say no to them. Those occasions will come often enough on their own without manufacturing them. The more they hear yes, the more confidence it builds. And being able to say yes instead of no doesn't mean that the kid does what he wants to without restraint...it means that when you do say 'no', it means more.

My boys are all grown up now and raising kids of their own. In fact, next week my oldest grand-daughter will be 16.

Now there's a scary thought...that I could end up being a great-grandmother before I even feel like a grand. :)

don't put a kid in a position where you know you're likely to have to say no to them

If I ever get around to it, I'll try to remember that one.

LOVE IT!!!

thanks

But everyone else's....

:P

Could I still join??

:silly:

my two daughters are 5 and almost 3. They are (usually) better behaved than kids 2-3 times their age.

In fact, I've instructed my 5-year-old always to remind me she's only 5 whenever i yell at her, because she's ordinarily so good, I forget when she is acting age-appropriate.

I've seen the appalled looks on their faces when they see a much larger kid having a knock-down tantrum. My 5-year old has asked me "Daddy, what's wrong with his parents?" about a kid who was very poorly behaved.

must remember those threads?

Why don't you start a child-free forum?

Merely a place in which can make a complaint about an incident without the holier-than-thous jumping in and making accusations of child-hating and blah blah blah.

Personally, I love children. Think they're totally cool. Sometimes I miss working in the pre-school with the 4 and 5 year olds.

But for some reason, at DU, it seems it's okay to complain about pretty much anything - except for the sacred cow of complaining about out-of-control children. People tend to think anyone who complains about a child incident means to complain about all children, for all time, everywhere in the cosmos.

There's nothing wrong with complaining, but when people say that children who misbehave should never leave the house, yeah I'll say something. All children misbehave at least occasionally, and children shouldn't be under house-arrest simply because they are children.

If we talked about any other group of people on the planet the way people sometimes talk about children, threads would get locked because they contain hate speech. I'm not talking about nini's post - I'm talking more generally than that. Except for the thread-locking comment, more generally than DU even.

but if they're in a pissy mood, they ought to be. Or taken back home. Or removed form the restaurant/store/park/whatever.

The majority of children I come across seem to be pretty darn decent. And, the ones who aren't, seem mostly to have shitassed morans for parents.

But a legitimate complaint is just that - a legitimate complaint. If it's truth, it should be honored and allowed at DU, whether or not one agrees with it.

Only the ones that start to fall into generalizations about children bother me. Legitimate complaints about specific incidents do not bother me at all.

it sounds like something I'd stay away from. There are/were some very vicious people on this board who hate kids and others who don't actually hate them but prefer a child-free existence.

I didn't know if you were one of them or not.

I say the ignorant parents of the neighbor kids). My parents use dot get all over us if we didn't behave in public...I don't know what the hell is going on today with parents.

I'm serious. The number of obnoxious thug children is at an all time high

Great idea.

People hate us for our children being allowed to act like total freaks without fear of retribution

Stewie, is that you? What are you doing with that...

And I hate whiny-assed pansies who bleat about what a 'real' liberal is.

Great post.

Little Snottly and Brattelina. Lovely.

Hell = having to go into Toys-R-Us. yechhhh.

Does that qualify me for the club?

The child-worshipping people can have their own group.

The groups shall be separate but equal.

Members shall share freely their views.

Non-members may visit but will be expected to respect the outlook of that room.

Members of the No-one-is-allowed-to-say-anything-critical-of-children-nor-of-their-guardians sect (NOISATSACOCNOTG Sect) shall be free to coo to their hearts content when chatting in their room. Non-coorers, if they choose to visit shall respectfully and kindly make no comment that would be objectionable or controlling of the NOISATSACOCNOTG group.

And Vise-Versa

I find it so ironic that, on a thread in which I said "we need a place where people can criticize children" (note it does not say "kill them" or "demonize them", only "criticize") without having idiot knee-jerkers blast in our faces that we're obviously child-killing murderers, would have so many of the very same people I'm trying to avoid by having a separate forum.

People are too goddamned sensitive.

You'd think I was asking that we start a forum in which we will, finally, be able to plot the murder/execution/gassing of every child in the world because we hate each and every one of the fucking shits.

But, that's the nature of a knee-jerk asshole - to take a thing utterly out of context, twist the words, refuse to read the words that are actually there, and decide that what was written is what they want to have had written there, and then base their arguments on that.

my ass off.

Well I wish it were that easy, to be rid of my ass, that is. I'll have to be satisfied with the entertainment. :D

Wonder if they crash parties and jump in on other people's phone conversations too?

At least I'm smart enough and polite enough to hold my tongue if its someone else's conversation

Except for the time I alerted on a guy who opened a thread with a Oooh look at this cute thing--header, then had photos of dead cats.
I swooped, but I forgive myself. :p

that's where they talk about myths.

Please!

you've already got a few members.