Need Catholic help.

Like George Carlin said.."I was raised an Irish Catholic... but I'm an American now."

I was raised Catholic... 12 years of Catholic schools - including the Jesuits... which explains why I'm an atheist now.

My wife considers me an expert on all things Catholic, and she asked me a tough one.

Eating meat on Friday used to be a mortal sin. If somebody ate meat on Friday knowingly, and died later that night... without a "good act of Contrition".. he'd go to hell. Right?

A few years ago (I dunno when.. I don't follow these things...) the church changed the rules. No problem with eating meat on Friday.

What happened to the people in hell for eating meat on Friday? Do they get sprung? Is there some kind of appeal process? Do they have to stay in hell even though their sin is no longer a sin?

I think Carlin asked this question, too. I think he asked about "somebody doin' Eternity on a meat rap."

Can any of you Catholic scholars out there square me away?

Come on, do you really beieve this stuff?

Didn't I say I'm an atheist? I'm just trying to find out how the church explains away one of the mind-boggling inconsistencies in their dogma.

(no matter what flavor one chooses) and any of the organised religions that for the most part have seemed to have organiosed for te "soul" purpose of collecting money from the superstitious, that considering the sale of Papal Bulls, the group in question can be taken as seriously as phrenologists.

On the other hand, the ceremony and ritual of the Catholic Church is a beauty to behold in its own "rite."

speaking as another ex-Catholic who studied the European Middle Ages and got some canon law in there somehow; those souls in hell for flaunting Church law *at the time* are still there and barring a singular act of grace from God himself, will be there until Judgment Day. When the Vatican II reforms were held, the Church was instructed under the guidance of God, which legitimizes the change in law.

I'm not saying I believe in any of this, just that this is my understanding.

the church back on the right track, the poor bastards are now free with the grace of God.

There are three conditions for an action to be a sin. First, it has to be a grievous matter in and of itself. Second, you have to know that it is so. Third, you have to knowingly and willfully perform the action in full knowledge that it is the First and Second conditions above.

No eating meat on Fridays? Established so the rich could buy dispensations from the Church allowing them to eat meat on Fridays.

It doesn't meet the First criteria above.

That, at least, is how I understand the issue.

As to the whole "burning in Hell" thing, consider this:

Jesus Christ was God/man who arranged to live a life as one of us (what if God was one of us--sounds like a song) and then suffers a horrific death to redeem us sinners for Heaven.

If you accept that, just what the fuck do you think you can do that is so foul, so evil, so monstrous, that it outweighs Christ on the Cross?

Neil Gaiman, a comic book writer, had a great take on this in one of his books. Satan, aka Lucifer, has decided to give up his day job as being God's hall monitor, and is in the process of closing up Hell. One of the tormented goes off on a rant as to just how deserving he is of punishment, and lists an incredible litany of sins against God and man.

"Yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever," Satan says (in essence) and sends the sinner on his way. Gaiman's take on the subject seemed to be that we put ourselves in Hell, not God. God has more important things to do than pay attention to the ego-games of masochists.

I hope this is interesting to you. Forgive me if I ramble because it is late here in NYC and I've had a long hard day.

Ciao

special dispensation when St. Patricks Day was on a Friday to allow the consumption of corned beef.

I kid you not.

It was a venial sin. But the reason we weren't to eat meat on Fri was because meat was something enjoyed by the privileged, and fish was relegated to the poor. It was a sign of giving up something, to indicate that you were part of the unpriveleged. Over the years, it lost it's message. Eathing things like logster and shrimp certainly didnt convey the less privileged any longer.

The church recognized the change in the cultural impression of "fish" and made the right change.

...who were losing their livelihoods to rich people who ate meat 7 days a week. The no-meat-on-Friday rule actually was intended to protect the working poor.

Ashes & Palm, my belief system broke down some time ago. I spent yrs in Catholic Schools until I saw the light and moved on. Its not that I don't believe, it is the increased meddling by the church into things outside the realm. When the church began soliciting that you must give some much of your earnings, well that was another turn off. Perhaps my work made me more jaded seeing so much suffering, upheaval and death over the years, but I slowly drifted away. It seemed to me God just wasn't out there working to help me out. Now all the lawsuits out there today and various diocese's going under its time for the Pope & the Vatican to step up to the plate and sell off some of their art collections.

I'm probably way out of grace and eating meat surely doesn't mean one is going to hell. I think the whole fish thing was designed to keep the fish mongers in business.

as others have answered (it was never a mortal sin.)

How come priests can be released from their vow of chastity and get married but married people cannot get released from THEIR vows? (There is still no divorce in the Church. Basically, you have to prove that a true marriage never took place and it is annulled.)

eileen from OH (dancing on the head of a pin.)

may be similar to the annulment principle, Eileen. You know... mothers' vocations...! Some kids were dragooned into it.

Glad you survived the penguins and the collar brigade, too!

Okay, Faaather Roscommon (a good Jesuit who made me think for myself - big mistake, that way lies atheism...) told me that (remember, venial sin) meat eaters went to Purgatory (which led to a long discussion about skiing in Colorado, and how that could possibly be a punishment....) and when, under God's watchful eye, Vatican II came about, and the venial sin portion was lifted, voila,l all is well for those of us who couldn't resist the call of the wild bratwurst.

For those already dead, he said who are we to question God's decision making, and how are we to know that those souls didn't get their own free pass and what makes you you think, missy, that you know the mind of God and know that they're still suffering away in Purgatory? How do you know that God didn't direct all of the prayers from all of the souls who are daily communicants and say their Rosary three times a day to those poor old sots what couldn't resist the cheeseburger on a Friday and let them out of Purgatory and onto the slopes at Vail?

Seriously, that was my cachetist's argument, that for all we knew, when god changed the rules for us, he gave those already in purgatory a free pass. But that we don't and can't know.

Pcat.