Ok, so please no one mention anyone banned.... Has DU changed for others?

I used to post constantly (and maybe it's not so much a bad thing that I don't any longer), but the reason is that everything is totally different now. There are a lot disruptors here that seem to try to steer to subjects away from what we believe. I haven't found the same community that there was here before and I miss it. Anyone else?

And if this is locked, I give up.

Gotcha! ;) I think GD has gotten really vicious and mean spirited. I think the people there (and I am sadly one of them) don't mean half of what they say...that it's just anger and depression talking. At least I hope that's what it is. We'll get it together.

and I can't believe what's happening here.

Don't worry, Karma will prevail

Buffalo Springfield Lyrics
For What It's Worth Lyrics

There's something happening here
What it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware
I think it's time we stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind
I think it's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
What a field-day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly say, hooray for our side
It's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away
We better stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, now, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

I stick to the Lounge, and my various Lounge-stalking program-related activities, and sometimes hit LBN when I wanna get depressed. I see no big change. :shrug:

...we've got truth on our side.

They're supporting an administration which can't get its wars straight. They're supporting an administration which can't survive without lies, perception management and intimidation.

Let them try to disrupt. Keep the posting real and there's no way they can disrupt. Their efforts are juvenile.

are locked with the reason that I am calling out disruptors, when I never called out a disruptor and the thread was about something else entirely, it's pretty hard to ignore... especially when you can't respond to a locked thread.

..the moderation has been anything but moderate lately. They must be under some stress, too.

I have only been here a couple of weeks. There seems to have been
a change in that short time.
So, I have started using my ignore list.

:shrug:

I've only been around since before the election, but it seemed that not long after Nov. 2nd, the freepers started coming out of the woodwork.

Not only the obvious freepers, but those who seem to pose as legit posters and troll for remarks that they can spin as racist, antisemitic, or anti Second Amendment. Flame wars ensue, and soon perfectly logical, rational arguments are being responded to with profanity and slurs. I try to spot those situations before they happens these days.

Nice to meet you! :hi:

So I mainly hang out in the groups/non-polit forums/lounge.

Maybe during election season we were going toward something big, and now it's the winding down period? Plus we're going into family/no internets time (oh, or is that just me)--holidays and such.

I can't believe your other thread got locked, that's ridiculous.

and the people in GD, well just a few, turned into werewolves before my very eyes.

I even pm'd a member who asked me a question, trying to discuss in private away from the flames in the thread. He lashed out at me in the most asshole way and attacked my "lack of confidence" in my convictions.

I'm unsure whether these horror stories from GD are due to newer members or people who are just so burnt that their fuses are short or nonexistent.

It's unfortunate.

And to be an asshole towards CatWoman of all people!

and his reaction really blew me away.

I tried to be gracious in my reply to him, but the more I think about it, the more pissed I get.

Some people get carried away in their own sense of self-importance.

I think some of the old timers are still recovering from the election and are therefore lashing out where they can.

Or maybe they're just not caring now if they're jerks.

I hope he apologizes!

sorry, but he left a very bad taste in my mouth.

I know I have a short fuse lately, myself, and I've had to be careful about editing the posts I make on other boards where there's a mix of liberals, moderates, and conservatives. Invariably, my first draft is way bitchier than it needs to be.

I'm also having to be careful at work. I haven't yet gone off on any of the Republicans I work with, and I hope it won't come to that. In the weeks leading up to the election, things were incredibly tense. Now that the election's apparently over, the handful of them that are fairly considerate of others' feelings seem to have noticed that I'm awfully quiet these days, and I'm not cracking jokes and being cheerful like I always have been. It's obvious that I'm not sulking, either. I act just like I feel -- dismayed, terribly worried, and baffled about how it happened and what to do about it.

of about 4 posters. I would have liked to continue the discussion.

who everyone kept trying to explain the essence of the converstation to, but they persisted in their "misunderstanding" and disruption.

I think it was the latter!

I don't understand why anyone that did *really* want to be here wouldn't be as interested in getting to know the posters and observing the culture, although I may have made boo-boos on occasion.
Sorry.

Ive been getting myself in fights because I don't believing this blame Kerry crappolla.

working through it...and not willing to lose good friendships over it.

What gets old is being told I can't say anything about the south but we can de facto slam the north, east and west by being told we can only win with a southerner on the ticket...

I also get sick of hearing how much better Clinton was when he didn't get NEAR the votes or percentages Kerry did...just goes to show you..the majority can hate you as long as you get a plurality.

fallible. All I know is I want Bush out and I want to do it with this group of people.

:P
I will tell you this, Kerry did somthing Clinton couldn't do, he won Fairfax County, Virginia, not really a big deal but its as big as a state.

...you can attack me! I have very thick skin and it won't bother me. I will probably even agree with you on alot of it. :)

I just get sick of hearing that...oh..and I get sick of even Democrats now calling it the "war of the states"

...occasionly I just think I am a masochist for living here. :)

I think we're all just hypersensitive right now. I believe we will regroup and overcome all of this in time. It still just so fresh. People are moody and lashing out for the wrong reasons.

We eat our own in this party.

And there's so much lashing out at so many other liberal and Democratic targets. And all the red vs blue state and "fuck the south" bullshit, which is psyops, designed to distract and divide us.

It's all mighty unpleasant. I stick to LBN, editorials/articles, and the new groups. GD is unbearable, elections is indecipherable, and if you don't believe that recounts will result in a Kerry win, you're a turncoat.

What I don't get is the overlap between the recount supporters who think the election was stolen, and the Kerry bashers. If Kerry sucks so bad, why work to make him President? (Rhetorical question. Reply unnecessary.)

My current sig is a personal proverb of mine.

Good proverbs! :hi:

I am being more combative in GD evne though I tell myself to get the fuck out, I really think we eat our own too much, flame a way if you must but I'll jump on a republican's back before I do a dem's.

I see this new budget passed, a fair amount of dems voted for it, I don't like that but people only focus on that, they negate the fact that Kerry, Feingold, Kennedy, Edwards, Durbin, Akaka, and many other great democrats voted against it.

I can't put my finger on it. But I know it's not my imagination. There seems to be less camaraderie and more cliquishness but I don't know what the cause would be. The election results? People feeling less secure and less trusting?

Happy T-day! Are you out Left?

As far as DU is concerned...people are bummed out---I know I am. The main reason that people can't tell a difference in my posts is because I have always been a sarcastic little snot. I am only funny and friendly when I am ripped.

Stephanie

that it was locked because of something someone ELSE said and not me... why not just delete the posts? This is just annoying.

We'll call you guys on Friday if you're home..k?

:-)

:hi:

DTH

online for a few, then off for the weekend. I re-read my response to you and realized I must have been responding to someone else's post, and being incredibly over-sensitive to my original thread being locked... :)

I'm glad they didn't lock this one though... I'm glad to see that I'm by far not the only one experiencing this, and also to see that it will likely change again based on past experiences. No matter what, I still have no intention of leaving DU... I was just crying in my teacup the other night.

Hope your Thanksgiving was wonderful... ours was. :hi:

...needed to start a thread? 250 I thought. If that was reinstated it might help stall some disrupters.

Jesus! When I signed up it was less than thirty I think!

The moment you discuss anything unthinkable or frightening someone comes along to tell you to take your tin foil hat off, one of the most cliched internets terms known to man.

I refuse to join in the "boycott the holiday" stuff. Dim Son is not ruining my Christmas. :)

I don't really visit GD too much and I have been here since June(started originally in June but lost my email to retrieve password so changed my name).

I tend to see a lot of "Deleted posts" but chalk that up to the immature freepers who have nothing better to do with their time than disrupt a board that has nothing to do with their political affliation.

but why entire threads that had NOTHING WHATEVER to do with the deleted posts?

what you are talking about, so I can't weigh in. My apologies.

Trying to make DU look bad or start infighting?

:hi:

Everyone here was so sure that Bush would lose, and we'd be able to let out the breath we've been holding for 4 years now. Unfortunately, we now have to suck that same breath back in and hold it another 4 years. And yes, it is hella frustrating to many. A lot of DUers are demoralized, and just lashing out. I've been lurking here for 2+ years, and I've noticed this post-election squabbling, but I think it's just that everyone is trying to pick up the pieces still. Four years is an incredibly long nightmare, and then to not wake from it.....

Buck up, little trooper!!

It seems like liberals have had a history of not agreeing.
I am not saying that is bad - in fact I think it is great.
It brings out a lot of ideas and that is part of what freedom is all about.

I just hope we don't start building walls between us and getting angry
and intolerant. This is not the way to go.

If we are going to get stronger we need to respect each other for
our differences and be glad we can have them.

more glass half empty perceptions.
This is understandable given the election results, but a little overblown I think.
I think there's a lot of fear and it's infecting the discourse.
There are objective reasons for fear, but again a lot of it comes pretty close to being outright paranoia in my opinion.

Perhaps I am not feeling quite so worried since I'm in NYC and have seen some pretty bad stuff already that we survived. Plus I work at a place that has some power (a law firm - I'm not a lawyer though just part of the support staff) and I know that some of these big league lawyers are strongly Democratic and so I see first hand the resistance to the Bush agenda.

sorry 'bout that!!

Like I said, it's understandable.

freak out threads. I may read some of them, but I don't usually post in them.

I guess I'm just a wimp, but I don't care to get into heated arguments over what shoulda/coulda/woulda happened and I don't think I know everything.

I know I came here for support since I am in a red state surrounded by Repubs at work and in my family. I found it and I'm sticking with it. It hasn't been as styrong lately, but I feel like people are trying to work out their post-election blues in their own way. Some peopl eblame, some people whine, some people withdraw, some reach out. I guess I'm used to dealing with sorrows different faces...bein' a nurse and all.

Thanks for being here and i hope everyone has something they feel thankful for this year...I know I do and DU is part of it. :)

I am coming to really like the groups, so I spend more time there, and I post a bit more there than in the other forums. I am actually building familiarities with other people via that method than I previously was, so that is a plus.

I still read LBN, and scan GD & GD-Politics, though I don't find much of interest to me in the two GDs. I also read editorials, so none of that has changed, except less interest in the GD topics.

I think with the groups, some of the idle-interest has gone out of the lounge - things I might have read just to stay marginally aware of culture, like sports and tv, I don't read now, because they're off in their own groups for the most part.

I probably need to expand my groups listings a bit more, but for now, I'm reasonably content to have some things essentially filtered out of DU.

:hi: Mis

and a lot of folks who are suggesting (arguing) that we need to stop being so confrontational with the rightwingers. We're turning them off and alienating them. We need to be more conservative like them, apparently. We need to embrace conservative family values, and religion and Jesus if we're ever to win again.

I'd rather eat dirt.

a religious station while I was pumping my gas....

:-)

I'm not paying extra for THAT!

Happy TG to you and Princess :D

Same to you and yours.

I will not give up the very things that drew me to the party in the first place. I'd rather die.

But I don't think we should be more like them.

death cultist fundamentalists? Why shouldn't we be able to express the opinion that the latter are mentally ill, without being accused of a wholesale attack on Christianity? Clearly, anyone advocating the end of the world is not only ill but a traitor to his own country. Christians should reject these insane sects as un-Christian. They have as much to fear from them as any non-Christian.

If you criticize the Pope for being anti-gay or anti-science... then you're an ANTI-CATHOLIC bigot. If you criticize zealot Christians, then you're victimizing all of them. These claims that Christianity is above reproach occasionally get out of hand. Trust me... the Christians are NOT the victims, nor are they oppressed.

Does that count? ;-)

:hi:

The trolls are verywhere, and the ones with high post counts are showing their true colors.

people seem a lot touchier. i don't like it either :(

It's gotten nastier but maybe the complainers got what they wanted? I mean look at the lack of cat threads lately!

I'm about to reach 1900 posts and most of my threads die miserable deaths with 0 to 2 or 3 replies, I've tried to become part of this "community" but maybe there is something about me you all just do not like that much...I have noticed that few, if any "established" DU members reply to my posts even when I anreply to your threads directly so I really cannot identify with you lamenters...sorry!

And when I get a thread that takes off, o frabjous day! callou callay! there is much rejoicing!

that's just the nature of message boards, IMO.

I once made a post that got 51 replies!

However I notice that they who lament about things not being the way they used to be ignore me yet again in their replies...

Trust me, kiddo, you are NOT alone in the threadkiller category! I doubt it is personal. I really think we are just too "eclectic" for most! ;)

_____

Something I do want to bring into this discussion is the idea that a lot of people are fairly new to personal involvement in the political process and maybe they are not dealing all that well with the election results.

When you devote a lot of personal energy to any race it really does just bum you out when it goes badly. This particular election was terribly important to a lot of people--they had a huge personal investment in it--and they are suffering now. It is inevitable, and it is part of the package when you become active politically.

Losing REALLY sucks, and a lot of folks are going thru it for the first time. I'm trying to cut them some slack because I remember vividly how broken I felt after the first race I was involved with was lost (by a huge margin, I might add!)

Old timers here at DU are not exempted from that feeling, no matter how motivated they were in this election. They may have been posting here a long time but may still be living the aftermath of a first political loss. They are lashing out in any number of ways, and I understand it.

The anger and pain of losing a race never fully goes away (if it does you probably have been at it too long) but you do learn to deal with it more constructively. I think it speaks volumes about our DU membership that so many are hurting so much right now. We have a lot of dedicated progressives here.

This too shall pass, and the true activists and political operatives at DU will emerge out of the darkness with a renewed vigor and a new goal. THAT is how it works.

Peace to you all, I do love my DU brothers and sisters.


Laura

...like cats, then screw 'em.

Mine die a sad, slow death, and are often unintentionally duplicated with dozens of responses.

Thick skins are a necessity here. Buck up, you aren't at all alone!

If I am indeed one of the DU members you are referring to, be assured that a non-reply is not an intentional slight.

i do miss but i didn't know him that well. I just hope nobody sees me as a disruptor. I guess i feel self concious. I googled a certain name "images" that's where the photo came from

Sorry to interject this here--but I'd been meaning to ask you and had forgotten. Your screen name is ringing a bell for me and I have been going nuts trying to place it. There was a poster at TT by that name and I just enjoyed heck outta him. Was that you?

I posted over there for a while--till it went pay to post--under my real name. I went back to Davsand when I came here.

If that WAS you, good to see you again!!

Laura

Lots of angst and despair. Lots of refactionalization. Lots of soul searching.

I suppose much of that is to be expected after getting kicked in the stomach like we did. But I do think it's more than that.

The odd thing is, I find myself posting much more now, than I used to. Probably because I have more free time now that I'm not volunteering so much, and because I'm looking (for the most part vainly) for support and solidarity.

I mean my God, I'm no saint, but I am trying my hardest to stay courteous and stress unity. It has not been easy at all, though, and I've gotten a lot of flak that I never really expected.

DTH

HOW DARE YOU!!!!!!

YOU'RE JUST POSTING FLAMEBAIT!!!!!!!!

:D

:D

DTH

Looks like I'm gonna have to start "screening" my inbox like I do my phone calls :D

Happy Thanksgiving :hi:

I've replied many times to your posts and got nothing in reply so why not try getting off your high horse before you start to lament this current state of affairs?

The good thing about politics though: there's always another election around the corner. ;)

nnnoooooo:spank: :spank: :spank:

I've been here for over three years now. I finally got my wife (the Princess) to join DU in October. It was a fun place up until the election.

But then, a lot of new people came here and seemed to only want to cause trouble. Right now, I have four or five times the number of people on my "Ignore" list than I've ever had before - and that includes the times of very heated "discussions" down in the old "Gungeon".

Hopefully, the dust will clear, the disruptors will be found out and tombstoned, and the DU of old will soon re-emerge.

That's fine. We had our moment and it's gone. Maybe it'll be back, maybe it won't. Who's to say?

and though I'm not a terribly old-timer I do predate the election ... is that many of the newer folks (IMO) are not only new this board, they are new to POLITICS per se. Quite possibly this is the first election that they were involved in on a personal level. So there is a lot of personal angst there.

Also, there seems to be a MUCH higher level of attempts to use the board as some kind of telegraph to the "Democratic Party Leadership" .... i.e. if the Democrats don't do so-and-so I'm outta here, etc. IMO this a reflects person who is new to politics and frustated with the party leadership and honestly perceives DU as having something official to do with the Democratic party. Ha! Then of course this just leads to more frustration.

Just my two cents.... FWIW.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I was an incredible dolt at first.

I read a LOT before I made that very first reply.

I think I like the fact that maybe they AREN'T paying attention in the hallowed grounds of the DNC. They are a necessity, IMHO, but I want to have free rein to criticize them!

Political website though.
I'm working through the usernamechanges-that's confusing me somewhat.

Surviving through the primes does give one a different perspective on what's going on now.

I also remember this kind o'hell after the Convention and post RNC convention.

n/t

In the two years I've been here I've never felt so blatently "what is your fucking problem," as an opening thread. What is going on here? This used to be a place I felt "like home" but wow, ...there is a definite chill in the air now.

I refuse to give up, 'cause there are some great people here.

It has taken you guys a long time to develop friendships, respect for, and understanding of each other. It's always hard to let someone new into the conversation. As a "newbie", I am reluctant to get into political discussions with posters that have been on this board a long time cause I feel the "old timers" (no offense) are more informed than I am. You guys have had the great advantage of knowing about each other and have been able to share information with each other. I am absolutely addicted to you guys and love to read here and learn.

Thank you all for letting me learn from you, and maybe someday, I'll be brave enough to post my opinions.

I was happy to find a friendly port in the storm, but I felt like a political dolt.

I read a lot, posted a few replies, and was warmly welcomed.

I think a lot of this is new people who come here without taking time to get to know the boards. I think you are very wise to take it slow and learn our "culture" so to speak.

Things will calm down, I believe; they did considerably after Kerry won the nomination officially.

Welcome to DU; you are obviously a smart person and I'm always glad to see one of those here!

:toast:

though there have been a lot of new members who are plainly disruptors, so it's a little annoying. I'm GLAD that this board has increased its membership since the election, and I welcome any new members. Things will change again here, I'm sure of it.

Welcome and happy holidays... :toast:

I think the whole world has gone crazy.

We live in a country that just re-elected an idiot - who wouldn't be angry and short tempered - anyone who has a brain would be anyway.

I'm not sure it will blow over. With what will probably happen in our country in the next 4 years - it may get worse.

I fear for my country. And I have been short tempered with everyone - not just people here. And I apologize for that. But *BLECK* I'm so disillusioned.

Welcome to DU and I hope you will post more often! :)

Thanks for your warm welcome!

now post as much as you like, but now don't expect any response.

This has become a group isolated dreamers talking to themselves, not a community!

Some of it is the natural consequence of some people who didn't care for Kerry but supported him to try and get shrub out, coming out with anger and bitterness.

But there REALLY is a LOT of disruption crap and pimping of RW nonsense too, (moral America we need to suck up to fundies etc.) as well as pimping of weakass pseudo-Repub candidates for the future. A lot of the pimping of ridiculous candidates "for us" I think comes from disruptors amusing themselves or with some other agenda.

Honestly I would have thought most of the disruptors would have lost interest after their emperor "won". :shrug:

I can only conclude it is either a perverse sport for them to hang out on DU, or part of some coordinated effort from the RW to help mask and distract from election fraud.

It's sad. Some of my depression cruising around on DU is probably just my own feelings of hopelessness after the election, and overall feeling of "lack of purpose" since then. But I don't have the same positive feeling about the board as over the last year where it was my favorite thing.

It's too bad, because I live in a "deep red" area and DU is an important refuge for me. It's not like my friends in MA and CA who have mostly like minded communities to commiserate with.

I think a lot of really good longtime posters are either gone or in serious hibernation now too.

I actually heard about DU from a far right idiot that I used to work with. Now when I call him an idiot, it is because he didn't seem inclined to use the logic that the good lord gave him on his own beliefs. He wasn't a stupid man-- although not the sharpest tool in the shed either.

He mentioned to me several times, over two years ago, that he spent time here causing problems, so I know that it does happen, and he must have been subtle about it.

Not that I'm advocating paranoia, but it's something to keep in mind when something nasty happens.

I am SO glad you posted this! I thought I was losing my mind! I joined DU before the election and I found some interesting people here. I have had some 'spirited' discussions, but nothing that sent me into fits. Then, it was like a full moon, and the were-wolves appeared! People almost seemed to be spoiling for a fight. The more obvious disruptors appeared, as predicted. I was more shocked at the established posters that turned into buttholes! It was as if reading comprehension was tossed out the window! Posters latched on to the stupidest things or tried to make points without making a point!

I know lots of people were pissed about the Theft. I am too! But, it got so ugly in here, I had to stop reading because I was getting too upset. I was seeing some of my favorite posters get attacked for stupid things. I was just amazed! I will give the mods props though, they really had their work cut out for them! I think, for the most part, they did a good job. There were a few 'questionable' decisions, but they are the mods, not me!

I hope reason returns here soon. I have missed some of my favorite people (many who posted here...lol). But, on the upside, I think we did get a new group of good people. May happy times reign again in the DU!

Brightest Blessings!

it is best to be yourself when you post and by the way all you old time posters made your own special little hell by ignoring or poo-pooing comments by people who found this place after you did...The DU Lounge was never meant to be your own special little clique, after all!

but posts like this suggesting we cram it simply because some of us have known each other a long time are a bit annoying...if you are dying to belong....telling people to stuff it certainly doesn't invite anyone to embrace you.

Happy Thanksgiving anyway.

I have.

Kinda liked it in a wierd way.

the day when it is tradition to cram things up a turkey's ass :D

It seems we're all trying to come to grips with losing the election, and most are doing that with suggesting reasons WHY we lost.

At this stage, nobody seems to be willing to listen to others' opinions, and it's getting nasty. Then there's the rift over whether or not the election was legitimate. These are topics that will obviously lead to some serious flamage.

And that's not necessarily a bad thing. It shows that we all have passion for our beliefs. We just need to channel that passion better.

"Hide Threads" has returned, intelligent debate will return shortly.

The vibe definitely isn't the same. I've taken some time off, haven't posted much lately. For what it's worth... :grouphug:

Happy Thanksgiving

I only found out about this place in October. Registration was locked for several days, understandably, so I couldn't join earlier.

This is the first election I've felt so personally invested in. I never started following politics much until after 9-11. What I have come to realize over the past few years is that I need to be involved if I want to see improvements.

So, hi there! I'm not a troll. I'm not a "freeper" in disquise. I'm tired of being accused of being vitriolic for simply saying I didn't like Bush at other web sites. I'm very concerned about our country and I'm looking for ways to be involved.

and sometime you will see some remarkably intelligent conversation going on in GD and GDP (yes, I'm serious--stop laughing!).

Hang in for a while, thicken your skin if necessary, and I promise--you will grow to love it.

And keep this in mind: "Hide Threads," your most reliable friend at DU, has returned!

It's my personal DU savior!

I do think that there are a lot more people disappointed at the "current" outcome of the election, and most of us are bewildered, confused, and so upset we're striking back at just about anyone who will listen to us. It's not so much negativity as it is anger and a feeling of being betrayed. It's part of the steps of grieving, I think--I can't remember where denial comes into the picture in the steps, but I think that's where most of us still are.

I think that the DU admins are managing to diffuse some of that energy into other areas--for the past four years, we've concentrated on the most political parts of our "souls" and now, we need to be healed, and that will require the ability to move forward. And no, I won't say, "move on" because that kind of hurt is way too grievous to try and push away--we actually need that energy, and we need it to be channeled into some other areas of discussion. Which is why I'm glad we now have so many SIGs and other avenues of discussion, which relate far more to the "real world" than our goals and aspirations of a decent government.

If it's negative in the sense that freepers are here to disrupt, many of us have gotten to the point where we can spot one with our eyes closed--on the other hand, those who have been here for a long time have invested too much of themselves into the election process to be truly taken seriously as "enemies." Again, we're talking major disappointment, and an elation on the afternoon of 11/2/04 that quickly turned into hate, pain and discouragement. It's only natural to "hate" the people who brought that upon our heads, but the fact is, it's only a matter of not channeling those emotions in a practical way.

Give it a few months, and it should get back to relatively normal. If you find it too negative, hang out in the SIGs and concentrate on those things in the meantime.

It's my personal opinion that while things are rough at the moment we're still absolutely nowhere even close to the acrimony that existed on this board during the primaries, but if you guys want to vent, that's fine.

It's interesting. While I agree with that, the difference strikes me as one in foundation. During the primaries, we were all EXCITED, we were fighting each other like wild animals at times, but we all had faith and hope that our candidate -- whether "our" meant just the one we supported in the primaries, or whoever the Democrats ended up nominating -- would beat Bush.

Now, that sense of excitement is gone. Instead, we have a kind of sullen surliness, an underlying sense of depression, or disappointment, or sadness, or whatever, stemming from Kerry's loss, or the voting machines, or both, or the Republican monopoly, or whatever.

That's what it feels like for me. I couldn't articulate it fully last night, but after reading EarlG's post, that's the realization I reached.

And it's kind of a sad one.

That said, on this Thanksgiving day, I am thankful for DU and the people here. I don't know what I'd do without you all.

:grouphug:

DTH

During the primaries people were fighting for something, and attacks against candidates were generally in support of other candidates. Currently all the attacks are against everything, and in support of nothing.

A happy Thanksgiving to you! :hi:

It has been a pleasure to read your posts, truly your husband is a lucky man to have met such an intelligent, insightful and sensible person for a life partner.

:hi:

DTH

Your analysis of the difference in tone nowadays is a good one. The thing will perhaps be cured with time, and the looming of a possible new fight.

Best wishes for the Holidays, Sir!

We all miss your posts and keen observations greatly, but I'm certainly glad to see your wife providing discussion of equal heft and quality, although each of your particular posting styles does differ delightfully.

I hope to see you around more often, and as always, you have my best. My life goes well enough, all things considered. A Happy Thanksgiving to you and all your loved ones.

:toast:

DTH

:hi:

and everyone I've met here. (We'll be giving you a call this weekend :hi:)

Although I would hate to call at an, um, inopportune moment! :D

:hi:

DTH

Hard to have the kind of extended discussions anymore that used to take place a couple years back. Good thing, bad thing, who knows? Just part of the natural expansion process of this site, I think.

I think the major problem has not so much been the trolls (inevitable, and handled well here at DU), but mostly has been the fact that you have so many discussions piling over the top of each other here that it's hard to have any sort of discussion that isn't totally flippant and off-the-cuff anymore. The structure of the forum simply works against it when the number of users increases beyond a certain point.

However, I think the addition of "DU Groups" (and the fact that posting is limited to donors there) is a GREAT idea, and I think it will go a LONG way toward restoring a space for the kinds of discussions that really take root here at DU when given the chance.

Basically, I am REALLY optimistic about recent improvements to the site, and I think the admins deserve a major round of applause for taking the right steps to help this community develop toward its full potential :)


MDN

I don't get to the site as frequently as some, but I have noticed that the tone is a bit different. Good-natured ribbing seems to more easily spark defensiveness and harsh words. You all but have to pepper your message with :) :) ;) ;) :) :) ;) ;) just so that people know you are, in fact, kidding. And even then it's a chance shot. I think people are a bit hyper-sensitive right now, and it really is reflected in the tone many of the posts.

Plus, I have noticed that, whereas in the past, when newbies or relative newbies posted new threads or engaged the more longstanding members of DU, the posts/comments didn't drop like a hot rock covered in crap. Now, that seems to be more the case. I can only speak from personal experience, but I am having a MUCH more difficult time engaging people than I did a few months back. Again, I can only visit the site a few times a week, but I've noticed a marked difference in my interactions with DU people.

I signed up in 2002, after having lurked for a year or so. In those days it was a very gentle place in GD. You could post anything you liked, so long as you'd thought about it, and people were prepared to discuss pretty much anything. Plus there were far less members and so threads didn't sink anywhere near so fast.

Maybe that's the main thing that's changed. The vast increase in posters means that threads sink much more quickly. This means the only threads that survive tend to be the ones that press the buttons of the largest number of posters. This tends towards the lowest common denominator. Granted, DU has a higher l.c.d. than society at large, but still like any group of individuals it must have one, and that's probably the level most often seen in GD.

prolly has much to do with the general sense of being unable to engage people. makes sense....

Gather 'round kiddies...Grandpa's gonna talk about the "old days".

I joined back in 2002, after lurking a bit. It was a smaller group then, so it was easier to form friendships, attachments and, let's face it, rivalries. We had gatherings, and many of us became close outside of the message board. There is still kind of a "war buddies" feel among the old guard.

A lot of people lurked back then, watched this group of people get close, and joined later, expecting to instantly become part of the same vibe. But it doesn't happen instantly. It takes time. Some people get downright pissy when instant gratification is denied.

And frankly, I ran out of cranial hard drive space to store all the names of people I knew and liked or disliked. All of the new names became a blur, and only the strongest personalities stuck out.

As the numbers increased, so did the amount of cool people. But naturally the number of loons increased exponentially. And loons tend to stick out.

So it's not that there are more disruptors. I think I'm only able to see the loons as clearly as I used to see my friends.

We need you hun! How else will I get my toaster?

:kick:

How about a group or another forum like GD: Condensed, or something. with different posting rules. like, debate rules or something, which are intended to foster intelligent conversation at a slower-moving pace.

- users are to search all threads for their topic before starting a new thread.
- all opinions must be backed up with facts, which must be cited.
- no rants and raves.

etcetera...

thoughts?

I would say this place has changed many many times.

Then again, maybe it's just me that's changed? After all, the last four years has been a wild, wild ride for most of us, whether we were on DU or not.

:)