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Help being cooler headed at the table today- let me know if it helps....

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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 12:17 PM
Original message
Help being cooler headed at the table today- let me know if it helps....
I know I'm going to need it. Or else I'm sticking my head in the cooler.
One or the other. Cheers all! Happy T-day!!

How to Respond to Conservatives

by George Lakoff

http://www.rockridgeinstitute.org/bookstore/elephant

An excerpt from the book Don't Think of an Elephant!: Know Your Values and Frame the Debate.

Progressive values are the best of traditional American values. Stand up for your values with dignity and strength. You are a true patriot because of your values.

Remember that right-wing ideologues have convinced half of the country that the strict father family model, which is bad enough for raising children, should govern our national morality and politics. This is the model that the best in American values has defeated over and over again in the course of our history—from the emancipation of the slaves to women’s suffrage, Social Security and Medicare, civil rights and voting rights acts, and Brown v. the Board of Education and Roe v. Wade. Each time we have unified our country more behind our finest traditional values.

Remember that everybody has both strict and nurturant models, either actively or passively, perhaps active in different parts of their lives. Your job is to activate for politics the nurturant, progressive values already there (perhaps only passively) in your interlocutors.

Show respect to the conservatives you are responding to. No one will listen to you if you don’t accord them respect. Listen to them. You may disagree strongly with everything that is being said, but you should know what is being said. Be sincere. Avoid cheap shots. What if they don’t show you respect? Two wrongs don’t make a right. Turn the other cheek and show respect anyway. That takes character and dignity. Show character and dignity.

Avoid a shouting match. Remember that the radical right requires a culture war, and shouting is the discourse form of that culture war. ...........

What if you have moral outrage? You should have moral outrage. But you can display it with controlled passion. If you lose control, they win.

Distinguish between ordinary conservatives and nasty ideologues. Most conservatives are personally nice people, and you want to bring out their niceness and their sense of neighborliness and hospitality.
...........

Hold your ground. Always be on the offense. Never go on defense. Never whine or complain. Never act like a victim. Never plead. Avoid the language of weakness, for example, rising intonations on statements. Your voice should be steady. Your body and voice should show optimism. You should convey passionate conviction without losing control.

Conservatives have parodied liberals as weak, angry (hence not in control of their emotions), weak-minded, softhearted, unpatriotic, uninformed, and elitist. .........

By the way you conduct yourself, show strength, calmness, and control; an ability to reason; a sense of realism; love of country; a command of the basic facts; and a sense of being an equal, not a superior. At the very least you want your audience to think of you with respect, as someone they may disagree with but who they have to take seriously. In many situations this is the best you can hope for. You have to recognize those situations and realize that a draw with dignity is a victory in the game of being taken seriously.

...........snip....

You can make considerable progress with biconceptuals, those who use both models but in different parts of their life. They are your best audience. Your job is to capture territory of the mind. With biconceptuals your goal is to find out, if you can by probing, just which parts of their life they are nurturant about. For example, ask who they care about the most, what responsibilities they feel they have to those they care about, and how they carry out those responsibilities. This should activate their nurturant models as much as possible. Then, while the nurturant model is active for them, try linking it to politics. For example, if they are nurturant at home but strict in business, talk about the home and family and how they relate to political issues. Example: Real family values mean that your parents, as they age, don’t have to sell their home or mortgage their future to pay for health care or the medications they need.

Avoid the usual mistakes. Remember, don’t just negate the other person’s claims; reframe. The facts unframed will not set you free. You cannot win just by stating the true facts and showing that they contradict your opponent’s claims. Frames trump facts. His frames will stay and the facts will bounce off. Always reframe.
...............

Never answer a question framed from your opponent’s point of view. Always reframe the question to fit your values and your frames. This may make you uncomfortable, since normal discourse styles require you to directly answer questions posed. That is a trap. Practice changing frames.

Be sincere. Use frames you really believe in, based on values you really hold.

A useful thing to do is to use rhetorical questions: *Wouldn’t it be better if...? Such a question should be chosen to presuppose your frame. Example:* Wouldn’t it be better if we had a president who went to war with a plan to secure the peace?

Stay away from set-ups. Fox News shows and other rabidly conservative shows try to put you in an impossible situation, where a conservative host sets the frame and insists on it, where you don’t control the floor, can’t present your case, and are not accorded enough respect to be taken seriously. If the game is fixed, don’t play.
..............

Always start with values, preferably values all Americans share like security, prosperity, opportunity, freedom, and so on. Pick the values most relevant to the frame you want to shift to. Try to win the argument at the values level. Pick a frame where your position exemplifies a value everyone holds — like fairness. Example: Suppose someone argues against a form of universal health care. If people don’t have health care, he argues, it’s their own fault. They’re not working hard enough or not managing their money properly. We shouldn’t have to pay for their lack of initiative or their financial mismanagement. Frame shift: Most of the forty million people who can’t afford health care work full-time at essential jobs that cannot pay enough to get them health care. Yet these working people support the lifestyles of the top three-quarters of our population. Some forty million people have to do those hard jobs — or you don’t have your lifestyle. America promises a decent standard of living in return for hard work. These workers have earned their health care by doing essential jobs to support the economy. There is money in the economy to pay them. Tax credits are the easiest mechanism. Their health care would be covered by having the top 2 percent pay the same taxes they used to pay. It’s only fair that the wealthy pay for their own lifestyles, and that people who provide those lifestyles get paid fairly for it.

Be prepared. You should be able to recognize the basic frames that conservatives use, and you should prepare frames to shift to. The Rockridge Institute Web site will post examples from time to time. Example: Your opponent says, We should get rid of taxes. People know how to spend their money better than the government. Reframe: “The government has made very wise investments with taxpayer money. Our interstate highway system, for example. You couldn’t build a highway with your tax refund. The government built them. Or the Internet, paid for by taxpayer investment. You could not make your own Internet. Most of our scientific advances have been made through funding from the National Science Foundation and the National Institute of Health — great government investments of taxpayer money. No matter how wisely you spent your own money, you’d never get those scientific and medical breakthroughs. And how far would you get hiring your own army with your tax refund?

Use wedge issues, cases where your opponent will violate some belief he holds no matter what he says. Example: Suppose he brings up abortion. Raise the issue of military rape treatment. Women soldiers who are raped (by our own soldiers, in Iraq, or on military bases) and who subsequently get pregnant presently cannot end their pregnancies in a military hospital, because abortions are not permitted there. A Military Rape Treatment Act would allow our raped women soldiers to be treated in military hospitals to end their rapeinduced pregnancies. The wedge: If he agrees, he sanctions abortion, in government-supported facilities no less, where doctors would have to be trained and facilities provided for terminating pregnancies. If he disagrees, he dishonors our women soldiers who are putting their lives on the line for him. To the women it is like being raped twice — once by a criminal soldier and once by a self-righteous conservative.

An opponent may be disingenuous if his real goal isn’t what he says his goal is. Politely point out the real goal, then reframe. Example: Suppose he starts touting smaller government. Point out that conservatives don’t really want smaller government. They don’t want to eliminate the military, or the FBI, or the Treasury and Commerce Departments, or the nine-tenths of the courts that support corporate law. It is big government that they like. What they really want to do away with is social programs — programs that invest in people, to help people to help themselves. Such a position contradicts the values the country was founded on — the idea of a community where people pull together to help each other. From John Winthrop on, that is what our nation has stood for.

Your opponent may use language that means the opposite of what he says, called Orwellian language. Realize that he is weak on this issue. Use language that accurately describes what he’s talking about to frame the discussion your way. Example: Suppose he cites the “Healthy Forests Initiative” as a balanced approach to the environment. Point out that it should be called “No Tree Left Behind” because it permits and promotes clear-cutting, which is destructive to forests and other living things in the forest habitat. Use the name to point out that the public likes forests, doesn’t want them clear-cut, and that the use of the phony name shows weakness on the issue. Most people want to preserve the grandeur of America, not destroy it.
...........
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. The 'strict father family model' -- too funny
I've often reflected on that myself, as it applies to politics
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. i think it's a really common mindset that's easily given into -
and popular it's like a license to be self- righteous, as well as not fully explain what you're up to. cause Daddy knows best! I didn't tie in the history of this patriarchal crap back to slavery, but there it is..
Ugh.
And what's funny is in my brother's house, the kids and wife run the show! And they're the repugs, which they would never be if the kids were teens and in danger of getting drafted.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Well see if you can make some progress
and report back...

Happy T-day and great thread! :hi:
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. thanks ... since i am heading into
PMS ville as well as Repug land and I need some help myself! I want to say a lot of evil things.....
One of the milder ones: I was just laid off and your kids are going to hate me for not spending the usual huge bucks on them! Sad, but true. The kids are going to be even ruder than usual this year.
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Mr.Green93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. don't talk
drink.
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I'm driving. I'm fucked! Plus they're all sefish and materialistic and
I'm talking about the 3 and 6 year olds.
I'm going to have to smoke a joint.
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Retired AF Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
5. I don't have to worry about anything today
Wife is in IL, parents in IN, inlaws in OH, my daughter is in England, my son is in GA and I'm in AL. Can drink in peace. Who needs to eat. :)
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. Yeah and this approach worked so well for Tom Daschle
Might keep some peace at the dinner table but it sure as S-ht won't win an election! Sorry but Hannity and Limbaugh have it all over us in terms of covincing.The loudest wins and gentleman finish last! How often does it need to br proven to us?
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
7.  the loudest get the other people to shut up,.and we can't do that + win!
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Why not? They should shut up. I will never be "nice" again.
I don't give a rats ass what they think anymore. They will never vote for us, never. They wouldn't even vote for an evangelical Dem when they had a chance with Carter. We need to create more Dems and forget about the other side. That is what they did to us.Beat then at their own game.
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. people who won't shout should just shut up? I happen to think rational
Edited on Thu Nov-25-04 01:01 PM by bettyellen
one on one discourse is needed becasue of the vaccum in the media leaves a lot of people uneducated and it would be nice to get people thinking in more than sound bites.
I know I want to holler to, but people tend to write you off. Or that's been my experience.
It was also my experience that there were a lot of fence sitters as well as sheeple, and for them, I would never say never.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. No the other side can just shut up for a change. Rational discourse just
Edited on Thu Nov-25-04 09:25 PM by saracat
hasn't worked. Look who is winning. And there weren't any femce sitters. They voted for Bush. There weren't any "real "persuadables. If they were "persuadable" the yelling and screaming of Hannity and the like "presuauded "them to vote for Bush This is like the myth of the undecided voter whose ass we tried to kiss .Ain't never happening folks. Appeasement is a recipe for disaster. As I recall, it wasn't terribly sucessful with the Brits against Chamberlain either. And that is what the opposition has become. Nazi's. When are we going to learn? And they have nothing but contempt for intelligence and reasonable discourse. Why do you suppose the DNC is running around with their hair on fire screaming they will "never nominate a northeastern liberal " again? Forget about it. You don't have to scream. Just forget about them and work on creating new Dems.
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xerox Donating Member (143 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-04 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
13. listen to bettyyellen
she knows what she is talking about!
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