My 15 year old ruined Thanksgiving...

That kid, sometimes I think she's trying to see who is the last man standing when she's through with me... I predict she will be...

We had a really nice day planned, cooking all of her favorite foods and hanging out together at home... Everything was fine, no great, until I made the foolish mistake of putting on some music...

I had an urge to listen to Woodstock, especially Country Joe... So, I'm having a blast in the kitchen, cooking for my family and listening to music, when Fixin-to-Die-Rag comes on... You know the intro where he says: "Give me an f" and a half a million people answer "FFFFFFFF", give me a "U", "UUUUUUUUUUUUUU", give me a "C", "CCCCCCCCCCCCCCC", give me a "K", "KKKKKKKKKKK"... At this point I got really emotional and caught up in the moment and starting shouting with the audience: "FUUUUUUCK", what's that spell? "FUUUUUCK....and so on...

Well all of a sudden my daughter comes flying up behind me screaming "Shut up, the window's open", which made me mad (who the hell is she to tell me to shut up?), so I just ignored her... She didn't like that, went over to my stereo and turned it way down... "OK", I'm telling myself, "don't kill her"... "Don't ruin Thanksgiving, just go over and turn it back up", which is what I did... You know what's coming... She turns it back down... Now I'm pissed... If that was me when I was growing up and I did that, I wouldn't have lived to write this note today... So I calmly went over and turned it back up...

She went over to the stereo and turned it OFF!!! She fucking turned it off!!!!!!

Friends, that was the end of my Thanksgiving... Huge screaming match... I waited fifteen minutes and went up to her room to say: "I'm sorry, I shouldn't have shouted that with the window open and I'm sorry"... She doesn't even look at me... I tell her I do not ever again want her to turn off the stereo when I am listening to it, regarless if she likes what I have on or not... Get this... She tells me: "well, if you had turned it off when I told you to, I wouldn't have had to turn it off"... OH. MY. GOD.

So now we're not talking and nobody is hungry and dinner is just sitting in the over...

Thanks for letting me vent... I really needed to do that...

Oh... And Happy Thanksgiving... :)

:)

Just think, a year from now, will this matter or will there be other stuff?

I was going to post the same until I read your post. You are spot on!

hands on her hips? was her head doing that side to side thing? some day she'll make a different man just as miserable.

want to go to bed angry. Both of you will be sick by morning. I know it's excruciating but try to work through it.

Good luck,

Vickie Carter
Redondo Beach, CA

that I told her I couldn't give her a full hug, I would just wrap one of my fingers around one of hers. Needless to say that was so stupid that we both ended up laughing.

I have a 16 year old, and after this post I no longer feel so alone. While my daughter sometimes treats me in ways that I would never have dared treat my mother. I also have better talks, more laughter, and a stronger relationship with her than I did with my mom. I find that she argues and argues, but often times a day later or even a few hours she is following through on the suggestion we had to have a big fight about.

Good luck.

I have a ten year old that lets me know that he will behave as soon as he gets his way.

...when we were young, our parents turned down our music. Now that we're old, it's our kids who do it.

Maybe it's because our music stinks!

JUST KIDDING!

No matter what a parent does, they will ALWAYS embarrass their kids. It's natural law. Your daughter will get over it, and I hope you will, also.

Maybe the solution would be to only listen to music around the holidays that everyone in the house can appreciate, in order to avoid any friction. :shrug: Sometimes, sacrifices must be made for the sake of sanity.

and enjoy! Send her little butt to MD's

Mine are now 18 and 21. I'm emotionally bruised, but not beaten.

When I'm desperate, I torture them by singing Grace Slick's "White Rabbit."

Please hang in there. These years are a bitch, but it gets better.

Though I can't blame her, shouldn't YOU be yelling at HER to turn her crappy music off? :evilgrin:

You can come over here tomorrow and eat with us. Of course, don't mind the half painted house, dry wall repair and caulked walls...
no electric heaters though! Margie

...pretty soon she'll be turning your name in to the local Homeland Security Headquarters as a deviant Liberal!

...in the front of the neighbors?

WHAT IS WRONG WITH HER??? :eyes:

Yeah I know it's true... I shouldn't have been yelling "fuck" for everyone to hear... She never hears me curse so I think she was shocked AND embarrased... She was nowhere around at that moment, I guess she must have heard me in her room... I knew I was wrong and that's why I apologized to her, but that will be the day when I have my 15 year old telling me what I may listen to AND turning off the stereo on me... WTF?

And many of you are right... It seems to me that this generation is MORE conservative than the last two...

GOD HELP US ALL!

Thank you everybody and Happy Thanksgiving!

I'm extremely liberal, but I would be appalled if anyone in my family were screaming "Fuck" for all the world to hear (unless something truly awful had just happened). I think she was just so shocked and embarrassed that her reaction ended up somewhat over the top. She should have politely asked you to turn it down, not demanded, but still I can't fault her for feeling somewhat desperate and rattled given the situation.

curse and that's why she was so shocked, I understand BUT, you have to understand that the cursing is only for ten seconds TOP... After that the struggle wasn't over inappropriate music, it was 100% a control struggle... It was a test... How far can I push Mom around...

At the time we were going back and forth with the volume, it was just Country Joe's song which has no curses... There was no reason for her to turn off the stereo except to show me who's boss and too many parents would have just let her get away with that... Today it's this, tomorrow, it's F you Mom...

I think we let our kids get away with too much today because of our own guilt... I made a mistake, I apologized, end of story...

To say to me: "Well Mom if you had listened to what I told you to do I wouldn't have had to go turn the stereo off", will get you Mom-in-your-face every time...

Daughter, when you have a job pay the mortgage, electric, gas water, taxes and put food in my mouth and a roof over my head, she may then tell you what you can do. Until then, you are the parent and It's your house and you'll do a you damn well please and if she doesn't like it, she can find somewhere else to live. She'll either pack her bags or change her tune.

but the rest leaves me cold, having been raised by Mr. Don't-Let-the-Door-Hit-You-in-the-Ass. I can't help wondering what he would have done if I'd gone ahead and done it. Fortunately for him, I was too scared of him to risk it. But that's just asking for it.

somethimes these kids think they rule the nest. Whats even worse is that a lot of parents allow this. I left my mothers house when I was 16 because I couldn't live by her rules any longer and I have never regretted it.

I overheard my son and his buddys talking like sailors out in the yard one day last summer, I hollered out the window and asked them all if they had jobs. I told them that when they are old enough to earn a paycheck, then they will be old enough to swear. Until then I better not hear that kind of talk out of their mouths. They apologized and I haven't heard it since (I do suspect they look around to who might be listening now).

with the daughter, I would also have a problem if my teenager daughter said, "If you had turned it off when I told you to...." I admit that would tick me off.

I think there's plenty of blame on both sides to go around. The daughter could have asked politely that the stereo be turned down, and the parent could have tried to avoid a screaming match with the kid.

Your daughter acted like an adult and you acted like the teenager. I would have been mortified when I was a teenager if my mother had yelled the F-word so loudly that the neighbors could hear. You want your parents to act like parents, and set an example, even though they fight you every step of the way.

She was right and you were wrong, Mom.

I had mine hooked up to a big ol' amplifier that shook the whole house whenever I cranked the CRUE up.

Still, I suppose I am not surprised that she did what she did, on account of the swearing. That would be my guess as to what happened. :shrug:

afraid someone would here her dad screaming FU%$ at the top of his lungs. At 15 i would have been horrified. Besides, what kind of an example is that for a kid?

i cannot stand noise 1 bit.
so i end up yelling at mum or dad to turn the TV down,and turning off the radio allot.
i cannot consintrait with music or people with voices that bends metals.

So i know what its like to be in a yelling fit allot and getting aggravated over noise. because my eardrums hurt.

Never under estimate teenagers ether,they aren't kids or adults (heck what am i kidding? some act like 6 year olds and some act like 26 year olds) They just want a space of their own and feel very frustrated that adults hold them back on living their life before they are adults and forget their dreams. They would do ANYTHING to get to where they can. waiting to become a Citizen to people that ignore you because of your age,when age does not measure knowledge.

It just sounds like your daughter has a mind of her own now. :)

Sorry, I am with your daughter on this one...its really not appropriate to be screaming/singing FUUUUUUCK in front of your children on Thanksgiving or any other day...she was probably embarassed by you...I would have been too.

As a parent your job is to set a good example...you weren't.

15 year olds are supposed to act like fools...their parents aren't.

Sorry, but thats how I see it.

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i type fast and don't give a damn if i spelled stuff right on the internet.

but does that also cause you to invent words such as "unmature"?

If yuo splel thnigs worng yuo can stlil undrestnad.

I type quickly too. That doesn't mean I can't spell correctly or use words that actually appear in the English dictionary.

But, I already knew all I needed to about you with your sweeping generalization of public schools. :hi:

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Thank goodness you're not "unmature".

Or should that be "i wuz thinking 1 simlar thougft?"

I feel sorry for you, should your parents have hindered you from going through that phase.

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You are absolutely right... I got caught up in the moment and made a mistake... That is why I went to her and apologized...

But again, no 15 year old kid of mine is gonna turn off the stereo on me, especially when we went back and forth a few times..... I don't care what I'm listening to...

let's take a time out and talk, while you keep a gentle, prozak smile on your face when you really want to smack her (and admit it, that behavior from one's teenager would make anyone want to smack them even if most of us can keep from actually doing it). It might have diffused the situation and allowed both of you to be heard and to feel respected. That said, she is 15 and unfortunately severely brain damaged because all teenagers are to some extent brain damaged because of hormonal surging. Unfortunately, they have 15 years prior to learn all of their parent's buttons and how to deftly push them. The biggest job for a parent of a 15 year old is not to let them see that they've pushed your buttons. Time out isn't just for 2 year olds, it can be utilized just as effectively for 15 year olds and for 40 year olds.

That said, thank the Goddess that teenagers often grow up to be lovely human beings. It's sad that one of the growth stages that they have to go through requires this kind of odious behavior. The ones who don't do this at this age will do it at 40 and it can be much more damaging then. So, you've done a good job if she feels safe enough to be such a little shit with you. Cold comfort, I know.

The parent? You mean like the time I finally let loose on my dad when he shouted at me for criticizing Rush Limbaugh, and I shouted back, "You know what? You yelled at me every day of my life until I was 20, and I don't have to take it anymore!" and then stormed out of the house? I think I was about 37. It felt awesome, by the way, and I noticed he was a little more respectful of my opinions after that. I don't think he was too damaged by it.

Cold comfort, indeed, but comfort nevertheless...


I appreciate it! :) :hug"

but your statement just above shows that you are doing the same thing. I quote:

no 15 year old kid of mine is gonna turn off the stereo on me

Now you know where she got it, because that's a pretty controlling statement right there. It says several things in subtext; that you don't care about other people's feelings as long as your desires are met, that you see your child as a possession, not a person in her own right, and that you don't care for the opinion and concerns of one of the most important people in the world to you.

I'm glad you're not my mother... but then again, in a way, you are very similar. She made similar statements and refused to acknowledge my abilities and feelings as reasonable and mature; even to this day, even when her actions are clearly and objectively irrational and irresponsible. I'm a couple of decades past where you and your daughter are, and my mother and I don't talk. An occasional phone call, an occasional email. Part of the reason for that is because she insists on control and having things her way, regardless of the needs or goals of others. Music was a bone of contention when I lived at home, but by far, it was one of the less important ones.

Now, in my own psychotherapy practice, I find that when a mother comes in complaining of control issues with teenage daughters, it's far more likely that the control issues coming out of a desire from the mother to keep control a one way street, instead of accepting that the child is growing up, learning to make rational decisions and judgments, and asserting her own abilities and needs. It's rare that the mother is entirely open to give and take and the child is demanding her own way, all the time. So the free advice - worth exactly what you paid for it is this - when you see behavior you feel is inappropriate in your child, before you say a word or take an action, check your own behavior to ensure that you are not modeling behaviors that are inappropriate. Use the Golden Rule: treat others as you wish to be treated.

The fact is, your behavior was inappropriate. Would you yell at a co-worker the same way you yelled at your daughter? How about a spouse or partner? If you can't treat a child with the same basic respect that you treat a peer, your behavior is inappropriate. How else does a child learn to show others respect and treat them with dignity?

And yelling obscenities is rarely appropriate, whether the neighbors can hear or not. You were being sub-adolescent.

I commend your daughter for behaving in a responsible, respectful and adult manner.

Pcat

With all due respect to your credentials, I totally disagree with you....

This is my child... Not my partner... Not my coworker... MY CHILD!

This is exactly what's wrong with our country today... Taking your child to a professional who will undermine your authority and tell the kid it's Ok to not listen to your parents if you think what they're saying in wrong... This is why we have kids out of control, doing what they want... Today it's "Shut up, Mom, and I'll turn your stereo off if I want to, tomorrow it's, "F you Mom, go to hell"...

And when I say: "No fifteen year old kid of mine is gonna turn the stereo off", I mean that... I AM the parent, not her... If you think that a parent should treat a child in the same way they treat their partner, then something is really wrong with this way of thinking...

I'm sorry but this is not a control issue for me... The child was told something and I was trying to see that through... That's a control issue to you? Trying to make sure your kids listen when they're told something is trying to control your children? Wow... Since when?

My child and I are as close as can be... She is an honor-roll student and in general a good girl... She is at the age where she is constantly testing to see how far she can push us... She was told to not touch the stereo and I expected her to listen... It doesn't matter that she didn't like what I was doing... Since when did we let our kids dictate what's right or wrong for us?

Now had she come to me nicely and told me how she felt, that's different, and would have got a different reaction out of me...

But you as a professional, saying that the child was right to disobey her parents because she didn't like what was going on is just plain scary to me...

Now I know why people are skeptical of therapists... If this is the advice you give, just let the child rule the roost and do as she pleases, I now understand...

Thanks for your advice, anyway...

and your authority, whatever it may be, comes from YOUR behaving appropriately

I'm sorry but this is not a control issue for me... The child was told something and I was trying to see that through... That's a control issue to you? Trying to make sure your kids listen when they're told something is trying to control your children? Wow... Since when?

"Trying to make sure" is definitely an issue of control. Particularly when you were trying to make sure she wouldn't do something she was completely right to do.

She is an honor-roll student and in general a good girl... She is at the age where she is constantly testing to see how far she can push us... She was told to not touch the stereo and I expected her to listen... It doesn't matter that she didn't like what I was doing... Since when did we let our kids dictate what's right or wrong for us?

In your OP, you mentioned that when she complained to you, you got annoyed "so I just ignored her"

As rude as your daughter's reaction to your song was (telling you to "Shut up" is rude) your ignoring her was at least as rude as that. If you ignore her (or anyone else), you should expect a stronger reaction to follow.

When they're right, that's when. And in this case, your daughter was right, and even you acknowledge that.

this is just too important... And I am just too shocked at what I'm reading here...

She had a complete right to turn my stereo off? You can't be serious... After she was told not to? Oh, so she has the right to do whatever the heck she wants, regardless of what her mother tells her? I really can't believe what I'm hearing...

I NEVER acknowledged she was right... I apologized for my momentary lapse of judgment and yelling out the f word... What followed, was completely unacceptable... To me anyway... A fifteen year old girl, does not decide which of her parents' requests she should abide by... If you went with this system, in no time at all your child will be running your home, not you...

She was told to do something, she didn't do it... She went further by not only not listening to what I said, but totally and completely disrespecting parental authority by turning off the stereo... Did you read the part where I said the obsentities lasted ten seconds? After that it was just a song... She has the right to turn it off because she doesn't like it, after she was told several times not to?

Not where I come from, my friend...

I'm sorry but some here sound like you have some unresolved issues with your own parents and still have the perspective of a defensive, angry teenager...

Like it or not, kids under 18 do not get to choose which rules they follow and which they don't in their parent's homes... I believe that's not only common sense but also the LAW! If you're a good parent, you'll know it just doesn't work this way...

I'm outraged on your behalf. :)

No one has the right to be rude. The point is that rude behavior creates more rude behavior. You were rude, and she was rude back. Neither of you were right. She held onto her anger a bit longer than you, but she's the young one, and in less control of her emotions. It's your job to teach her how to deal with these situations, and you do that, whether you want to or not, but how you behave.

She came to you and rudely complained about (what she thought was) your rude behavior, and you ignored her. Think about that. If you thought she was wrong to complain, or if she complained in the wrong way (ie rudely), shouldn't you have said so instead of ignoring her?

She doesn't have the right to be rude, or to do whatever she wants because no one has such rights. And paying for her food, shelter, etc doesn't give you the right either.

a quick death, but I want to say BRAVO to you post Politicat. Unfortunately, I think your advice is wasted here.

You messed up her day with inappropriate music. Not everyone likes that "song"!

Kids are supposed to treat their parents with respect. Heck - people are supposed to treat other people with respect.
This sounds like a strong mom-daughter relationship that will weather more storms like this and come out even stronger. I think it's wonderful that you went up and apologized. Give her a fe wmore hours - she'll come around.

Big hugs to you. You really sound like a wonderful mom.

:hug:

for your kind words... I really appreciate it... :hug:

You are a lot nicer than I am. I never would have apologized first. My position was that all outrageous behavior had consequences. They learned to present their opinions to me calmly and reasonably. Of course then they learned to walk all over me in a loving and sympathetic way. Hoisted on my own petard.

Your daughter was wrong to scream "Shut up" at you, but you're an adult, and you should have set a good example by not escalating the situation, but talking about it like adults do.

You were both wrong.

This seems like a perfect topic for my first post.
I have a 14 yo, a 13 yo and a 10 yo. And i was a teenager once myself. And i still listen to my woodstock CD . When the kids were younger, i told them Country Joe was spelling muck (it was really muddy there!).
Luckily my kids and i are agreeable about music over all, but i can get them to do anything by threatening to sing...

Don't feel like your Thanksgiving is "ruined", it's typical for living with teens. They love you intensely one hour, and the next they are totally ashamed or angry at you .

Next time she is in a talkative mood, ask her about why that moment made her so mad. You may see some things you didn't see before. And so might she.

Happy Thanksgiving!

...yeah, I'd be dead. Or hitchhiking to a relatives home. At least you kept your temper. Teens are pains...being one, I know. :hug:

Thank you for your nice words... You are a very mature 14 year old... I'm sure it's easier to say that to me than to your own parents... Thanks hon... :hug:

I recall a screaming match between my prim mother and my "Give -me-an-F" cousin over that very same song.

"Not in my house!" my mother screeched. How funny.

As the mother of eight ( two adoptees sitting in my living room right now) I can tell you that someday you will look back on all of this and laugh.

When the kid's out rocking the waves, just stand on the shore and stay calm, because if you jump in that boat, too, it will tip over.

But this is with the full confession that I have engaged in many a screaming match over many a holiday.

Hang in there. And I think this would make a hilarious scene in a movie...

I'm afraid to ask how many years ago that was...

No child of mine will ever tell me what to sing or do. The child needs to know their place or they will run all over you forever.

Were you being sarcastic? I hope?

Amish are very strict with their children, right or wrong, it is their way. They aren't abusive for the most part but they are much stricter than the mainstream is.

I've never known an Amish person to be wired.

I just think children should respect their elders.

The question is how you go about it and what you mean by respect. Are you talking about real respect or are you talking about fear. What bothers me about some of these responders is their rigidty. One would expect progressive minded parents to post on this message board. Instead some people take a my way or the highway, give 'em an inch, no back sass young lady type of approach. They emphasize the superficial manifestations of respect without any regard for the underlying feelings or conflicts. It is these kinds of authoritarian child rearing practices that will produce the next generation of G.O.P. voters.

This is a person who is paid to give advice to families... She told me because I cussed, my child had a right to do what she did... Can you freakin believe that?

She is condoning the child not listening to the parent because the child felt the parent was wrong... If this is the advice given to families coming for help, I now understand why so many kids just do what they want and walk all over their parents...

She also told me that I should treat my child the same way I treat my partner or coworker... Huh?

I can't convey how dangerous I think this is, a therapist approving of this kind of behavior from a child... Oh... That's right... I said the f word... Maybe my daughter should have just smacked me around... After all, I did say the f word... That gives her the right to disobey me, according to our trained professionals...

Oh yeah, and me trying to get her to do what she was told? I was trying to control her...

My God...

I had some HUGE screamin knock down fights with my mum when I was an obnoxious teenager. My best friend hardly ever fought with hers. Now we're adults I see my mum all the time, we talk on the phone, see movies together (the ones neither my boyf or my dad will see) and get along great and I have more respect for her than any other person living or dead. My friend sees her mum maybe one every couple of months and they barely know each other.

fighting with or screaming at your parents as a teenager is almost manditory

I have the same situation. My best friend growing up had "the cool mom." The one that let her do anything and everything. I had "the annoying mom." The one who I would always butt heads with.

My mother and I still argue at times, but we talk almost every single day. My friend, however, can't stand her mother, and every time they are in the same room for more than two hours, they get into a screaming match that is really embarassing for all involved. And my friend and I are now 33 years old, so it's something we both should have outgrown!

my house was the one everyone spent time at because my parents were both pretty easy going, but when you're a 15 year old girl it doesn't really matter what you're parents are like you'll find a reason why they've "ruined my life!!!" and left with no option but to run off to your bedroom and play music that'll embarrass you in your twenties! :)

amazed and delighted with a Mom who cranked up the stereo and yelled obscenities with great tunes. As it was, I was the child of a very "what will the neighbors think" kind of Mom. I love her for herself, but she's old now, and still a "what will the neighbors think" kind of person. Rejoice in your freedom to scream anything you want. (we may not have it long). You weren't calling anyone a name, just having fun. Your daughter should count her lucky stars to have a parent that knows how to be loose.

If you had turned the stereo down, she probably would have turned it up. It's the nature of being 15. When she's in college, she'll be telling her friends what a cool parent she's got. Hang in there.

even if it lets me feel better for a moment, which it does... Thank you so much for taking the time to tell me about your Mom... You're right, if I was a conservative, she would probably be driving me crazy with her wild ways... I guess I should be grateful...

and she embarassed me to death. I was always worried about what the neigbors would think, but I guess that is just being a teen-ager. When you're young you're always embarassed by your parents whether they are uptight or freespirited. I do realize now what a one-a-kind wonderful mother I had. :-)

The more I hear about the current crop of American teen-agers, the more concerned I become that their generation will make the 1940s look like the 1960s! :scared:

... it should have been my kid... She was raised in the most loving, laid-back and open household you can imagine... This is a kid who went to demonstrations with her mother with flowers in her hair... This is a kid who grew up around 60s rock music... This is a kid who is afforded every personal freedom and expression known to mankind...

In turn, she has grown up to be conservative... As far as I can see anyway... Studying her heart out every day, staying up all night calculating her averages and studying for tests... She proceeds to tell me all the time how she doesn't feel sorry for so and so because it's their own fault they're in this mess... Ouch...

She's really a great, responsible and mature kid... So to answer your subject question... I DON'T FUCKING KNOW...! :)

against the "status quo!" It's pretty normal! Didn't you watch Family Ties? ;) (TEASING!)

Now she is setting her own out of a reaction to what she percieves as kaos? Kids don't need "every personal freedom" known to mankind. They need structure. She may come around later in life, but it looks like she is doing the best job she can of being the adult in her life.
The rigid law and order thinking may relax over the years (I hope}.

You were both wrong but she is the only one who has the excuse of being a teenager. You raised her to think of you as a peer rather than a parent so now that is how she treats you. Kids need parents not another set of fun friends.

Sorry, I don't buy that.

Choosing to not use such language does not make one a Puritan. To me, it shows class to refrain.

I've yet to meet a person who finds profanity offensive who also doesn't become offended by uninhibited talk of sex and other "taboo" subjects. If that doesn't make you a Puritan, then what does?

but I think common courtesy requires that you not open your windows on Thanksgiving and play a song with the f word loud enough for your neighbors to hear it...



Same thing for uninhibited talk of sex... I'm not going to ask a stranger for the name of the best lubricant any faster than I am going to drop the f bomb in front of him or her...

that there is appropriate times/places for such language and subject matter?

Is it "Puritan" to modify one's behavior at such times?

You've mistaken common courtesy and manners for rigidity.

at least she didn't announce she was pregnant at the dinner table

Because YOU are the one sounding like a 15 year old. Almost like you're stomping your foot and holding your breath 'till you turn blue. Shouldn't a "relationship" or responsible parenting INCLUDE respect for the kid's feelings? You're the one shouting FUCK for the neighborhod to hear on Thanksgiving, but she's to blame because she turned the stereo down?

Sad or satire...

I can forgive a 15 year old for being petty about it but a grown adult...

Maybe there's plenty of equal blame to go around.

for whom this struck that chord. Sorta read like a scene from the old "Freaky Friday" disney movie.

Personally I don't think it was so wrong. Big deal -FUCK- it's a word. Whether your daughter is use to hearing it from you or not, has she ever said it? I bet when she's with her friends she does and if not, she has at least heard them say it.

When ya get down to the nuts and bolts of it, it's a power struggle plain and simple. For her to act and talk back with such insolence is not acceptable. Calmly, without yelling but firmly state that when she pays her own bills in her own house she can be the boss and set her own rules. But until that time this is your house and if your want to blare your music and scream FUCK until the cows come home you have earned that right as the ADULT of the house.

Compromise anyway if you want and agree you will no longer yell FUCK when she's home, but she needs to know that however you choose to behave in your own house, you are the adult not her!

I know I may seem like a hard ass but I lived the ugly results the moment the "child" thinks they have the upper hand. An almost constant power struggle and it's damn near impossible to reverse the results. And I wouldn't say she "ruined" Thanksgiving, you two just had a bump on a small portion of the day. I bet there were many more good things that happened today, try not to focus on just the one bad thing.
Good luck (gads I'm glad mine are grown) and...Happy Thanksgiving :-)

"It's important people know what you stand for. It's as equally important that they know what you won't stand for." unknown

I use it from time to time but I would have been offended if my folks used it around me while I was growing up...

But she's 15 for goodness sake and it IS part of the lyrics to a song. :eyes:

and I think fuck is a powerful word when used judiciously..


I have cds by Eminem which is replete with the f word...

I am not going to crank it up loud enough for my neighbors to hear it...


It would be unfair to them and offensive...

If it ain't your shoe to wear don't put it on. It's that simple.

But the real issue that you seem to be missing is that the teen in question was wrong to respond to her mother in the manner she did. Even if the mother shares part or all of the blame here, her daughter was way off base to talk back to her mother in the condescending, demanding tone she used. The mother is the adult of the house not the daughter. We parents aren't perfect either however there is a certain level of respect to be shown the one that puts a roof over your head and feeds you.

E-GADS :wow: I sound just like my own parents.
;-)

My sister and her brood travelled over - not a good idea, since a couple of them were on antibiotics. One (a teenager) didn't feel like eating, but she kept on nagging him; early in the dinner he puked in front of all of us. Blech...what a crappy TGiving, no one felt like eating after that.

When she told you to "shut up" and you ignored her. I think I might have handled that differently:

"I'm sorry. I got carried away and didn't realize how loud I was getting. However, I'm still the parent, and you do not get to speak to me that way. I will turn the stereo down, and I expect you to speak politely to me from now on."

Respect begets respect. I would not appreciate my teenager making a remark like "If you had turned it off when I told you to...", but I would do my damnedest not to let it get to that point in the first place.

I can see where the breakdown happened..."

Posted by Left Is Write

Respect begets respect


Exactly...

If a parent wants respect he or she shouldn't drop F bombs like boquets in front of a fifteen year old...

When a 15 year old tells a parent to shut up, the argument is over. 15 year olds love to play boss without taking any of the responsability of actually being in charge. It's all black and white with them. They are always testing how far their power will go. If they're up, your down, and their respect seems to erode accordingly. Your apology comes after theirs, or you are dooming yourself to a nonstop power struggle.

And yet you're an expert on how their parents should handle them. Wonderful.

I have two daughters, 21 and 20. I'm not sure where your animosity is coming from, but I'm not gonna play.

As DU's Bob Boudelang would say, "Wala!"

they should expect others to either disagree or agree with them.

You are saying that there is nothing wrong with the mom screaming "fuck" numerous times in front of her kid. (And you know that I am not talking about the shut-your-finger-in-the-door fuck.) So, yes, indeed, you ARE telling the OP how to raise her kid.

The irony in your other post is amusing. You bring up all of the other "news" that everyone should be attending to instead of being the profanity police, yet you yourself have devoted much of the afternoon to discussing this very issue. :shrug:

I lived this. I was a single parent. My daughter ran the house for a year while I tried logic, respect for her point of view, and and discussing things. Then she got busted for pot in the high school parking lot 2 weeks after her 15th birthday. I got to sit at rehab hearing how it was all my permissive fault. If you can think of how I could have done it better please tell me. Thats when I developed a new philosophy.

Just wondering.

When she was 7 I became a single parent to her and her 5 year old(emotionally disturbed) brother. I think I said fuck alot. I don't remember -I'm in the grip of monopause, and I don't have any bioidentical drugs yet. On the up-side, none of the wild-eyed repukes at work have said a word yet about the election. Always a silver lining.

His father would say 'oh poor little ****' we have to be more loving and understanding. By the time this kid was 13 he was almost as tall as me and stronger, spitting in my face, calling me a fucking bitch, stealing, doing all kinds of hard drugs, pot would have been a blessing in comparison. Arrested countless times. And if I put my foot down by grounding or loss of privileges I was being mean and unfair to the poor little guy. You see apparently, "it was me that didn't try hard enough" :eyes:

He's 21 now and I finally kicked him out for good a few months back because he threaten to beat my ass in the same exact manner he just finished beating up his girlfriend upstairs. And still his father says, 'oh poor ****' we have to be more understanding and see things from his point of view. :wow: What?
The only way he'll ever live under my roof again is only after a minimum of 6 months regular and on going therapy to manage his anger plus an apology which he has not ever been made to do before in his life. Because I'll be damned if THIS TIME I'll apologize first. Like what would I say, gee I'm so sorry and BTW thanks for not beating my ass? pfffft.

in how mom spoke with close friends and how she spoke in public. I never used "porfanity" speaking to them directly, but would let fly describing a situation to them. One day after one of their kindergarten colleagues was taken to task for his foul mouth, we talked about certain words mommy used. I explained them all and told them that they were like smoking, drinking and sex. Nicht für Kinder. They blew me off saying they already KNEW THAT. :eyes:

4th of July some years back my youngest called his cousin (whose mom is a Fundie) an ASSHOLE. The roof nearly flew off the house. I quickly ascertained that cuz WAS BEING AN ASSHOLE (the apple and all that), told my sister so, the whole fam damily jumps in, meanwhile my kid was back at his game (having closed the door to the room he was in) in peace, chuckling under his breath...

But at least I outgrew it--as the original poster's daughter will. I only hope NJ_Lib can tough it out for a few more years!

There is no power struggle in this house, and we are ALL expected to treat each other with respect. It's a two-way street. Treating teenagers with a hardline approach may produce kids who are outwardly well-behaved, but you might wind up with someone inwardly seething with resentment.

Take a look at all the threads around holiday time from people who can't stand their own parents/siblings/grandparents/whatever. It's hard to believe there was a lot of understanding and communication going on in those households when the now-adults were growing up.

I've had to put my foot down with my kid before. And I've also had times I've had to admit I was wrong. I don't condone kids telling their parents to shut up (or vice versa, for that matter), but I also don't condone parents escalating confrontations to the point where the situation is beyond repair.

"Yeah, man."

"Well, turn it up, man!"

:hippie: :hippie: :hippie: :hippie: :hippie:

I didn't think anything could make me laugh this hard right now...

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! :hug: ;)

A classic. I wish I could find and download it from somewhere, but no luck . :(

but my God it was so appropriate at that moment...

I must have laughed out loud for five minutes when I first saw your post... Thanks...

PS - No wonder people hate "hippies", look at what they have to go by...

And, lack of it, is the problem.

:toast:

15-year-old. Sounds like that's what happened.

didn't it used to be the other way around...

I remember my ex's hippie parents (mother grew up around Haight-Ashbury, saw Doors, Hendrix, Dead, etc right when they first started out, Dad was a sax player for Janis in Kosmic Blues Band) used to be so embarassed by them, cause they grew their own, etc smoked at home, she up and joined a church and became president of the church youth group, and was so scared her friends would find out that her parents smoked pot.

It was kind of funny, and totally backwards from my family.

I think in a few years these kids will understand whats up.

so many different opinions...

Thanks to everyone who dropped by and posted... I wish I could answer you all, one by one...

I will take everything you wrote seriously and think about it carefully....

Thanks again for giving my family some of your time on this Thanksgiving...

This Thanksgiving, I am thankful for my DU brothers and sisters... :)

insecure 15 year old (and ALL 16 yr olds are insecure deep down, by definition)....How would you have felt if your mom or grandmother had been yelling fuck loud enough for the neighbors to hear. They had no idea of the context-they might have worried you were fighting-or worse. My father loved to fart loudly in front of my friends when I was that age and it humiliated me beyond belief. There is a difference, though-he was doing it deliberately.

Raising kids is such a bitch...my hat is totally off to those of you who are willing to shoulder the burden. I am far too selfish to make a good father. I know she overreacted a little, but try to see it through 15 year old eyes.

And, Happy Thanksgiving for whatever you can salvage...

I would have gone, "Who are you and what have you done with my dad?" Then I'd have thought this impostor seems halfway human and possibly even cool, but I wouldn't have dared question him because he would still look like the Supreme Boss of Everything.

Jaysus could have shown up in the pumpkin pie...

... it wasn't "her" music I was enjoying... The irony of the situation and what I forgot to mention is, the music she currently listens to, is 100 times worse than the Country Joe intro... At least this has some meaning to it... People were angry for a reason... Not because they couldn't get into club 9 last night without leaving their Rolls right in front...

The word "fuck" was used in this song to vent such deep and rightful frustration, that I don't think you can compare it to the crap she listens to...

I wonder what most of you would have to say about that? Hypocritical, no? I have never censored her because I trust her judgment... Is this what it got me? When I bring up this argument to her, she tells me it's different... Why? I ask... Get this... "It's different Mom, because I don't sing along"... OK... Babe... Whatever...

and sometimes embarrassing situations of life now rather than later. I had a feeling the work FUCK was not alien to her vocabulary. Something else does appear to be under her surface though. Maybe it's just "15" :shrug: I remember that time was so awkward and I know I was a horrid teenager and 30 years later I still apologize to my parents for being such a rotten and selfish teen;-) Oh I was absolutely horrible and many times I have looked back and wish someone would have sat much harder on me.

I think you two will come out on top. It's gettin' there that can be a real bitch. I have sons, no daughters and I've heard many times from folks that have both that girls are harder to raise than boys. Though I still got one tough case in my step-son.

I don't envy you at all and I wish you both all the goodness and best in the world to get ya through this. You sound like a great Mom and she sounds like a great girl just testing out her own pre-adult wings a little bit in the surrounding safety and comfort of her own home
:-) Hold on it's going to be a bumpy few years :hug:

Ah-huh huh-huh-huh ;-)
Ah baby please don't go down to New Orleans
you know I love ya so
baby please don't go :evilgrin:

If your daughter blows up over the stereo it sounds like she's pissed about something else. The other distinct possibility is that she's like one of my friend's who overreacts to about every small thing that he doesn't like.

And mortified by anything a parent does that makes her stand out or be different from everybody else. I thought being a liberal parent meant respecting my kids' opinions. Silly me.

Most of my friends didn't have that absolute stereotypical resentment of their parents (although they could DEFINATELY be embarassing at times).

It's a girl thing. My son's would laugh hysterically if I were singing give me an F on Thanksgiving Day. Unless they were bringing a girl over for dinner. And then, they'd much rather I sang give me an f than to say... dance...

My twenty year old cusses. I have overheard my fifteen yr old girl cuss.

But not at me, and not at their dad.

Its weird, once I figured they would do it anyway, I gave em one rule. Go ahead. Cuss. Just never EVER at me or your father. Or teacher. or anyone deserving respect. If you bump your toe, say fuck. You will not get into trouble.

My five yr old gets angry when I cuss. I laugh, and say ok sweetie.

No advice though, except that it sounds like you love her a lot, and she loves you, and it wont be remembered before long anyway. I place bets..that you two will one day have an awesome adult relationship. I sure hope I do with all of mine.A few minor glitches, but So far so good!

Sorry it ruined your holiday. She just needs a refresher course in manners. Perhaps you've never explained how it is that She-who-pays-the-bills makes the rules, and those-who-don't-pay-the-bills can lump it. There are certain procedures for dealing with spoiled brats which will usually bring them to heel. But I'm sure you know more about that than I do.

...just try shutting off my fuckin' tunes!!! :grr:

:thumbsup:

My 15-year-old shushed me in Rite-Aid the other day, for complaining too loudly that he's out of deodorant already.

I guess I could have done what my mom did when I shushed her for merely daring to speak the word deodorant at Skagg's drugstore in Salt Lake when I was about 12. She went up and down the aisles singing, "Armpit deodorant! Armpit deodorant!" I was sorely tempted to do something similar. But instead I just told him to get over it.

My natural instinct is this:

1) Roll eyes.
2) Smack self on forehead
3) Mutter under breath.
4) Look down and away from mom.
5) Walk to another aisle.

you are not allowed to say deoderant in public in front of your children, same with underwear, tampon, period, sweat, and I think soap.

considering the infamous Armpit Deodorant Incident of 1972, but I forgot. Funny how that memory popped into my head while I was standing there being shushed. I don't know why I didn't think to torture him with the story after we got in the car.

I see the deodorant shushing as different from the stereo turndown, I guess because it's his deodorant and his armpits. If he doesn't want people knowing about them, that's one thing.

If my son had done what NJ Lib's daughter did, we'd have been having a talk about how, when you're all grown up and get your own house that you're paying for and everything, you get to play your music as loud as you want and even yell "Fuck!" with the windows open if you want. If you want to risk offending the neighbors, it's your prerogative. And if your kid doesn't like it, he or she just has to suffer or put on headphones.

And then when the kid grows up and has his or her own house and his or her own kids, he or she can bore them to death with stories about how Grandma or Grandpa was so embarrassing, playing loud music and yelling "Fuck!" with the windows open, and then the cops came or whatever.

That's how it works. I think my son already knows that.

Your mother did EXACTLY the kind of thing my mother used to do to me!
And you sound EXACTLY like me when dealing with my 15 yr old son!

To the original poster, you are a soooo much more tolerant than I would have been.
My son would never even think of throwing such a hissy fit in the first place, then again, he is a 15 yr old boy, not a 15 yr old girl. He would probably put on headphones and roll his eyes, as neebob suggested, because thats how I've always raised him.

He could probably recite, by wrote, the whole "I'm the parent and you're the kid and when you have your own home and your own family and YOU pay the bills, then YOU can make the decisions that will piss off your kids, and you will understand the circle of life" lecture. LOL.

I will say, however, if he reached out to turn off my stereo, he would have pulled back a bloody stump (as my sainted mother used to say), and quite honestly, it would be a cold day in hell before I would have apologized to a 15 yr old for playing my stereo too loud.

You handled it with a hell of a lot more restraint than I could have, and for that, I salute you. :thumbsup:

-chef-

in my childhood home. I know my dad disapproved of the way I've chosen to raise my son, and I'm pretty sure my mom does, too. She and others would say I do the dreaded parent-as-friend thing, but it seems to be working pretty well.

My son has so much freedom, it looks like anarchy compared to what I had at 17 or 18, much less 15. But he helps me a lot, and as long as he keeps his grades up and everyone keeps telling me what a great kid he is, I see no reason to reign him in. He pushes the limits I do set and talks back to me, too, but usually the main reason it bugs me is I wouldn't have dared push it or talk back.

When I hear myself saying, "You know, Grandpa would have smacked you for that," I'm more inclined to question why I feel compelled to say it than whether what my son did or said was so awful. It's been established that Grandpa was a tyrant.

Kids have rights, and their feelings matter, and parents should be able to take their feedback. Parents are not infallible.

I'm a single parent, too, so it's a different dynamic. You learn to pick your battles early on, or your whole life is one big struggle. Lots of things that parents and kids fight about are just not things that the roof will cave in if the kid gets his or her way. I used to worry that I'd gone too far in the opposite direction, trying not to be like my dad, but I couldn't be happier with the present results.

I just have to draw the line at raining on my parade and trying to be the boss of the stereo. I'm the DJ. That's not up for discussion.

Thank you for confirming for me I am not going crazy or maybe even having a nightmare...

Please look at the posts above you, especially the therapist and the person below them, and tell me this is not madness...

I too thought I handled the "turning off the stereo" with restraint but not according to some... Some feel I should be ashamed for being so "harsh" on her... Ya... I know...

It's just such a switch for the kid to be upset about the parent swearing and playing loud music.

I'm able to kind of smile about it too... Tomorrow, I'm sure she and I will be laughing about the whole thing...

I am amazed at the support I received here at DU... Thank you to everyone who stopped by and gave me your advice... I really appreciate it!

To those who have not been so nice and think I would actually make something like this up: You need to get out and get some fresh air... Let the sun hit your face a little...

From what my friends tell me, this seems like pretty standard 14-18 year old girls and their moms stuff :shrug:

I hope you two can patch things up, for both of your sakes...

We had a great time and saw Arcade Fire after. A great day, probably my best Turkee Day ever.

Awesome band. Sounds like a kickass Thanksgiving.

best album of the year.

really? never heard of them. album is called "funeral"?

Your daughter isn't allowed to be embarrassed by you shouting "FUCK!" with the window open? Sure she might not have gone about expressing that embarrassment in the best manner, but that's because she's a kid, kid's find it hard to express that kind of thing, especially if they assume that them not freaking out won't produce results.

You've gotta understand that.

Teens freak out because they don't think you'll get their point otherwise. This is what your daughter was doing. I've only been out of that stage for 4 or 5 years, so I know what I'm talking about.

Responding with more yelling definitely doesn't help the situation. (Especially when it ruins your Thanksgiving.)

That is the individual who should be making the decisions about them.

I think children should respect their parents, but not because they pay the bills. That only teaches that the one with the money is the one with the power. Bad lesson. I'm thankful my parents never pulled the "I pay the bills..." bullshit. That grates me still, and I'm in my thirties and all teenage rebellion left years ago :)

she's not in a position of being able to run in, mess with the the stereo, yell at her mom, and then turn it off saying "if you had turned it down I wouldn't have had to turn it off".

That's disrespectful. She should respect her mom because she's her mom- not just because she pays the bills, although she ought to respect that as well.

Certainly It's not just about money, or who pays the bills, of course... but a parent-child dynamic is not a relationship of equals. The parent has to be the one in charge.


(God I sound old, don't I?)

He and his friends have already recorded me( without my knowledge) and have me on tape yelling “TURN THAT FUCKIN MUSIC DOWN, NOW” they put it into one their songs with me in the background saying it over and over.

LOL

You lose at the internet.

thats too funny, well at least you have been immortalized in art!

If they ever get a record deal, demand royalties.

You might be famous some day.

Your daughter was disrespectful to tell you to shut up.....


And it was poor judgement to play profanity laced music loud enough for your neighbors to hear it on Thanksgiving or any other day...

The more they stay the same.

When I was a teenager, I used to hear three things over and over again from my father. "Turn down that damn music!" "Could you get off the damn phone?" and "Are you smoking that shit in there again?"

Then I grew up and had kids. And they became teenagers. And I began hearing from them, "Mom, could you turn down that damn music?" "Mom! I need to use the phone! Could you get off it?" and "Mom, are you smoking that stuff in there again?"

~sigh~ And I thought it would be MY turn someday....

ROBBED, I tell ya...

I've been waiting my whole life to yell that stuff but no dice... I'm STILL getting yelled at for the same stuff, only this time from a pint-size house police... Oy...

Think about it.

-- Allen

Sorry you had such a bad day. :hug:

I forget. :shrug:

-- Allen

Well, there you go.

If this is an intensifying pattern of aggressive, disruptive, disrespective, disobedient and antisocial behavior from NJLib's daughter, then more drastic measures might be in order.

-- Allen

It takes two to tango.

Sounds like Little Miss Music Critic Should Be sentenced to listen to all of them. In Order.

She actually likes the Dead although she would NEVER admit it...

Those Dick's Picks would be comfort music, not punishment, since she's been hearing that stuff her whole life (we're huge Deadheads)... But if only I could get my hands on some Elvis right now... Now THAT would be punishing to her... :)

after all, we are everywhere.

I've got an 18 year old niece. She was the sweetest little kid, but for the past few years she's been horribly surly, judgemental, nothing is good enough, etc. It's just the age, I suspect. But you're the parent- if your daughter doesn't like the music she can get her own house. At best, all she was justified in doing was saying "Hey, mom, did you know the window is open and the neighbors can hear you screaming "FUCK"?"... Beyond that, until she's paying the bills she doesn't make the rules. At least that's how it was always presented to me-- I guess that makes me old.

God, that's so good to hear... I miss "our people" so much... The atmosphere, the vibe, the family feel, the acceptance of all...

Oh man, it sucks getting old...

Well, it seems like intelligent people are rare enough in this country these days (witness the red/blue map), much less deadheads.

However, if you haven't already, you should head on over to archive.org and look at the "live music archive".. :hippie:

There's plenty of stuff there for your daughter to turn the stereo down to... Might cheer you up a bit, as well.

Coincidentally enough, I met the guy who started that site tonight--- on a houseboat in Sausalito.. I had to shake his hand and offer my deep, deep heartfelt thanks for his 'furthur' enabling of my live Grateful Dead obsession. (My wife, not so much ;))

somehow I do not see cooking TG dinner is the time & place to starting shouting- "FUUUUUUCK".

And windows open? Neighbors? While at the right time, I would have been shouting FUUUUUCK with ya, if I had to hear you while fixing my TG dinner, you would have had a nasty visit. You MUST show respect for others IF you want you child to learn it.

AS IF I need some brat judging me all the time. HA!

tell you... That one day your child will grow up to judge and criticize everything you do...

What's worse, since sharing this story I have been made to feel like an unfit mother and the lowest form of human being because I got caught up in having fun in my kitchen and shouting out the dreaded F word... Oh and I should be crucified alive because I forgot the window was open... I have been accused of bad parenting, being a terrible role-model, having horrendous judgment and having no respect for myself or my daughter, and more... Why? Because I shouted the f word with my kid in the house...

It doesn't matter that I admitted ten times I was wrong and apologized... "Sorry Ma'am, the rope is already dangling, and the crowds have gathered"...

And WE are the liberals?

Frankly, I think some of the excessively critical folks are still working on their adolescence issues with their own parents.

...for your family, and your 15 year old probably contributes NOTHING but criticism. YOU deserve to have a good time and enjoy YOUR life on a holiday in any way you see fit.

Seems like some people here are pretty judgmental too!

Some of the finest people I know cuss like sailors.

Besides, this is the Internet, where everyone talks out their ass.

Not LESS.


at least right now.

After all, what was it that motivated and stirred me to yell that in the first place?

:argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh:

NT

I'm sorry but who is head of your household? You are, not your daughter. My parents were loving but strict and I knew that they were in charge. Parents are suppose to be parents, not theoir kids friends---time for that comes later!!!

Man, your posts just pisses me off. ARGH

We have a 15 year old and it is only by the grace of god and the help of her shrink that she is still alive. We had 2 years of HELL!She will be 16 on the 23rd of December and I hope the worst has past. That's what most keep telling me. But I know for sure and certain that I didn't behave or talk the way she does and the reason I know that is that I left my parents house at 18 with my ass and my mouth still intact. God help us.... it is a different world!!!:hippie:
( my only consolation is that someday SHE will have kids. That makes me smile in the most uncertain of times) :evilgrin:

she paying electricity? So now, she's grown? she runs your house?

Unless her name is on the utilities running into your house and the mortgage and insurance and she's making the payments, then she needed to stay in her room with her headphones on. Apologizing to her just handed her your authority in your own home on a silver platter. Next time, she's going to do it in front of adults and she's going to dare you to stand up to her, and you'll be apologizing again.

I'm living in a house with 2 teenage girls, 17 and 15, and they are under the false impression that they run my brother's home and are working very hard to drive a wedge between him and their step-mom so they can have him all to themselves. Right now, I have no patience or sympathies for the embarassments of a 15 yr old.

Don't respect your parents because it's the right thing to do. Respect theme because they have money and pay the bills. That will be a great POV to take out into real life. Money = Power. It's no wonder conservatism runs rampant. I don't think that is the intention when parents say such things to their kids. But, the lesson that sinks in is a harmful one, nonetheless.

And, I was unfairly accused of doing the very thing you're accusing those teenage girls of doing when I was a kid. I don't know their story, so I'm not saying they're perfect little angels. But, almost every time that accusation is leveled at kids, it is done so unfairly. If there is a wedge between your brother and his wife, then that is THEIR problem to deal with. They are the adults who need to nurture their own relationship. They are the ones who need to set the rules and be consistant with them. THEY are the adults. When difficulites in a relationship occur, it is much easier for someone to blame a 3rd party then face up to their own responsibility.

or their situation, your 'assessment' is off base.

and the fact that the adults are the ones responsible and charged with providing for the minor children, who run nothing, but run around in it, that is all the reasoning and justification needed to set the order in a home.

run yours the way you want, if you even have teenagers, which I doubt you do.

Other than your brother and his wife are adults. Maybe I shouldn't have assumed that? :shrug: And, I have nothing against seting order in a home. I just think that the "I pay the bills..." kind of justification is BS. If mom and dad lose their job, does that mean it's a boon for their kids, because they should no longer command respect and all rules go out the window?

I also think that blaming the problems in one's relationship on his/her kids is BS. If one is indeed the adult, then one is responsible for their own relationship. I made very general statements, not assesment of any one individual or couple.

i would have been thrilled. honestly, your daughter needs to understand that in the real world, PEOPLE CURSE. I do. All the time. And as far as I know, I am not a classless ogre, like some posters would think. And as far as I know, cursing at a turkey doesn't ruin it, so who cares if it's thanksgiving. Since I don't know exactly what was said in the argument, I can't say anything about that, but what your daughter did was TOTALLY uncalled for. I'm 19, and I would NEVER do that to my parents. I might ask them to turn it down (unlikely) or point out that the window was open, but what she did was pure rude. And anyone that says "O, teenagers are rebellious,"WHO CARES. She was WRONG, whether she is 15 or 30

Hope the turkey is still good ;)

:hippie: The incorrigible Democrat

and she took umbrage and so *she* ruined T-day? You are yanking chains here, yes?

What do I know, I am a newbie.....

Her response, I agree, should not have been one of defiance and reprisal - it speaks volumes about parental boundaries and how ill defined they have become. Look at it this way, though:

To some, it may seem unfathomable that a teenager could summon the gall to stand up to one's parents; while my father would have been stomped into the ground for questioning the unbending rule of his own father, I was more open with my criticism of my father. As parents abandon the strictures and archaic methods their parents used, their children tend to develop a cockiness and a "well, who's gonna punish me if my parents don't even enforce a code of ethics at home?" mentality.

On the other side of the coin, consider that, regardless of your emotional or intellectual development and ability to enjoy yourself without caring what others think of you, your daughter is probably still in a phase where public embarrassment is a fate worse than death.

Certainly, you can understand her likely embarrassment at having her father lapse into a feral moment, loud enough for the whole block to hear.

If you honestly believed that you are at least somewhat to blame for your behaviour, either in eliciting her initial response or for lashing out at her misbehaviour, then you certainly wouldn't have entitled this post "My 15 year old ruined Thanksgiving..."

I got up at 5 am and got the turkey all ready and put it in the oven.
My youngest (16) was sleeping in and everything was hunky-dory.
Then when he came downstairs, I asked him to baste the turkey and take the cover off the roaster and put the bird back in the oven.
He did as I asked except...
HE DUMPED THE WHOLE 20 LB BIRD AND THE GRAVEY AND SWEET POTATOES
all over the floor!!
YIKES!!
He cried, I was dismayed....
I told him not to worry about it!

All is well.......

Hello NJ_LIB;
It sounds like your daughter was embaresed by the musical lyrics.
Typical 15 and 16 and 17....lol!

My kid used to yell at me for playing some songs loud...but now he buys the cd's!!
LOL!

Get over it.
She is just a kid.
She doesn't want her friends and neighbors to think you are a weirdo!!
CONFORM!!
Get with the program!!
lol!

Hope you two make up!
You are the parent..so it is your job to go first!
Good Luck! and give lots of hugs to your daughter!

so you're even.