Ty Willingham's firing - Black Coaches held to a Higher Standard

Tyrone Willingham made history in two ways:

1) First black head football coach in Notre Dame History,

2) First head football coach to be fired in Notre Dame History


Bob Davie on the other hand was given all 5 years of his contract to turn Notre Dame from college football power to also ran.

Like them or not, Notre Dame is the name most closely associated with college football in America. And the message they sent throughout the sport was loud and clear:

If you're a black head coach, you're on a much shorter rope than your white counterparts.

coach of the Packers a few years back, fired after one season.

mike holmgren, on the other hand, was given a few years to build his championship team.

...he's a good assistant but just can't seem to get it done at the head coach level in the NFL. No shame in that, plenty of guys are better assistants then head coaches.

The Eagles were a consistent 10-6 team under him. They BLEW before he came to Philly.

The team made an immediate improvement by the firing, but after the first 2 seasons under Rhodes which they went 10-6, he was 6-9-1 & 3-13....that last season just did him in. Unbelievably Kotite has a better winning percentage than he does. I just thinks he's a better assistant. For years Bill Bellicheck was the same way. He would get the big nod, be mediocre then go back to being assistant.

In 1993, I thought Dan Reeves was a godsend....but he was in comparison to Ray Freakin Handley.

Backsliding not tolerated in this state, period.

If their decision was racially motivated, they will pay for it in recruiting. Highschool coaches and players pay attention to stuff like this.

A winning record and two bowl berths in 3 years.

:wtf:

He's gone because college football in general, and with this disheartening decision Notre Dame in specific, has become a "what have you done for me lately" proposition for coaching. You don't win, you don't stay. It's about winning, because winning teams bring in more money.

The race card is a cheap shot, imho.

How many of their white coaches did Notre Dame fire?

And ND didn't renew it.

So yes, in that sense he was fired.

Tyrone Willingham is the first ND Coach who was canned mid-contract.

Davie signed a 5 year extension and was canned a year later

"The Irish went 9-2 during the regular season last year, and Davie was rewarded with a five-year contract before an embarrassing loss to Oregon State in the Fiesta Bowl."

http://espn.go.com/ncf/news/2001/1202/1288660.html

Willingham was the first time that ND fired a coach before his FIRST contract was up.

My apologies.

Notre Dame up till Davie let their coaches resign or retire when they stunk.

just like Ty Willingham.

Notre Dame has not improved since he was hired. They've gone sideways.

Same result on the field gets you the same result in the coaching carousel.

Why not Willingham?

I'm not saying it was racial, but you can certainly understand why the question has been raised.

of old. - and taking that berth may well be cause for firing.

Indeed that was my first thought would be the result of his agreeing to go to the Insight Bowl.

I agree -the race card is a cheap shot, imho.

The era of nd being a national football power is long over, their absurd contract with NBC Sports notwithstanding.

ND sucked for most of the 60s.

I will say that my family is an "Irish" family, and at least 15 members of my family of grads. That said, I didn't go there, and have no ties other than my dad.

While Willingham's race obviously will play a role in almost every major event in his life, as it will almost every black citizen in this country, I don't think it was the motivating factor in letting him go.

First of all, this year is a gross aberation for bowls. A Notre Dame team at 6-5 would not have made a bowl game in the past 12 seasons. This year is very bad for college football. For the first time, EVERY Team that qualified for a bowl made it. Please do not pay very much attention to the bowl this year. It is certainly nice to make $750,000 for the athletic department, but it was a VERY bad year for the Irish.

The real problem was Willingham's collosal failings in recruiting. This coming fall would have been his first team, meaning the team that is 95% his own recruits. After httign 10-2 hist first year, he got several key recruits, however last year ND got only 3 of the top 100 High School players. This year they may only get one. It has been a tough time, and he future does not look very good.

Willingham also made several big football mistakes. He tried to bring the West Coast style offense to Big Ten and Big East football. The results ahve not been pretty. Other than the Michigan game, the offense gets beat by the power game every time. With 805 of their games against Big-10 and Big East/ACC teams, this was not looking good.

The fact is that race can never be removed from a black man's skin. I have no doubt that white privlidge has haunted him during his career. I also know that I was hoping they let him go all year. He has not getten the job done and it was a mistake to bring him into ND. I think he will do great as a head coach, and he will be picked up, possibly in Oregon when Billoti leaves this year to be Offensive Coordinator in the NFL. I just don't think his play style worked in ND.

I HATE HATE HATE Notre Dame and would love to slap them for something but this was not racial in any way. Willingham was a bad coach and was the fifth choice when he was hired, no one who was any good wanted the job. Notre Dame's greed has effectively ruined their program and I'm not sad to see it. Because they refuse to join a conference and give up all that extra TV money from NBC they can't recruit anymore. They aren't even in the top 30 anymore as far as prestige. So sad... :7

why does not being on a conference hurt recruiting? Not a big fan of college football, but I'm curious.

in a conference makes any difference at all--his comment makes no sense to me, unless there's something I've been missing all these years!

actually. Notice that Notre Dame is the only hold out. First off, it helps with regional recruiting, since players are familiar with the teams. Second, it helps with TV exposure and bowl bids. Third, it helps with money. In he Big Ten (11?), for instance, the teams give half their bowl money (I believe) to the conference which splits it up among the other teams. It's a good deal even for a school like Michigan or Ohio State (which basically alternate going to BCS bowls with their 12 million payouts)

Personally, Willingham should ahve been given two more years. For two reasons: first, it'll make recruiting the next coach easier, should you get rid of him then, the guy knows he'll have his entire contract to work with. Second, the above poster who mentioned recruiting makes a good point, Willingham is now coaching the players he recruited, like at Stanford, his offense is in place (it take a few years, even at the Pro level, to put in a new offense and defense) Lastly, Let him play with his own players, and see what he can do. (you say he inherited players? well, in the last 6 years, Notre Dame has had ONE first round draft pick in the NFL, ONE, Miami had five last season alone.) Willingham inherited a program on the downswing, with no roster and no incoming players, and stabalised it. Let him finish his plan. ND plays an absurd schedule, next year won't be any easier. (you really want to be Urban Meyer taking this job? next September you make your debut in the Big House against a team looking for revenge)

Although I love the firing, since it basically cedes the mantle of winningest team in history (and the dominant team in the region) where it belongs: Ann Arbor.

Seriously, the race card is a cheap shot.

FWIW, Willingham was the first black coach of any sport at ND.

I follow college football closely. I'm a fan. I would compare this situation to what happened at Oklahoma in the 90s.

Gary Gibbs took over for a legend in Barry Switzer. He put together six years of good to mediocre football. The next coach was Howard Schnellenberger, he was gone after 1 season because he had a problem with alcohol and the fact he went 5-5-1 made him expendable. He was followed up by John Blake, who was black, and perhaps one of the top 5 all time worst Division I college coaches of all time. He never had a winning season and was gone after three years.

With the exception of Schnellenberger (who probably would have coached at least three years of lousy football had he not showed up at a recruiting dinner drunk) the coaches who followed Switzer were on a progressively shorter and shorter leash.

Same situation at ND. Davie followed a great coach in Lou Holtz who ultimately was forced out after 12 years. Bob Davie followed him and was given 5 years. Willingham followed Davie and got three.

What this shows is that ND, much like Oklahoma was, is getting more and more frustrated with the state of their once great football program. They're desperate to win. Whether that's right or wrong is up for debate. But I think it has more to do with the downard trend of their program than Willingham. The way they look at it, they need a quick fix, and they need it yesterday. The further down the hole you slip, the greater the desire to claw your way out of it.

...if Davie had followed Tyrone, he would have gotten 3.

It would shock me if race had nothing to do with this.

Plus, when's the last time anyone but a O-lineman made the NFL from Notre Dame?

Seventh round draft pick three years ago. He's developed into one of the most physical and underrated receivers in the league.

no wonder kids aren't lining up to go play there

As of Sept. 2003, Notre Dame and Florida led all schools with 40 players each in the NFL.

http://www.secsports.com/index.php?url_publish_channel_id=2274&well_id=2

09/23/2003


Nine SEC Teams Among Top 40 Schools listed on NFL Rosters
BIRMINGHAM, Ala. -- The Southeastern Conference led the nation with 263 former players on 2003 National Football League opening day rosters.

The Big Ten was second with 207 followed by the Pac-10 with 191, Big 12 with 187 and the Atlantic Coast Conference with 144.

The SEC also had nine of its 12 schools rank in the top 40 among all NCAA institutions with former players on NFL opening day rosters. Florida and Notre Dame led all schools with 40 former players listed on opening day rosters. Georgia and Tennessee tied Miami (Fla.) for fourth with 36 former players on the list.

RB for the Dallas Cowboys drafted in the first (maybe second) round.

he was doing a good job there... made my cardinal ties proud.

Was kind of cool when he came to Indiana - in a short period of time nearly all of the top coaching jobs in the state had become held by talented African American coaches (in this state - that was surprising)...

IU Basketball
Pacers (NBA) Basketball
ND Football
Colts (NFL) Football

only two remain - and the first one (who I think has been a class act to follow Bobby Knight) is on growing shakey ground if this season doesn't turn out better than last. However his ability within two years to take the team to the NCAA finals - has given him a little breathing room (Indiana fan's desire to win seem to outtrump their racism... however when the winning isn't overwhelming... wouldn't ever doubt that race plays a factor in how quickly the higherups are ready to fire.

I wish Winningham the best - and wish he was still at Stanford (they need him... Cal ranked high and Stanford as has-runs? ... )

-

Two fairly decent head coaches, Ron Zook and Ty Willingham, both got fired after having decent records.

More than anything, it shows that anything less than SEC titles (in Florida's case) and national title contention will get you fired at universities like UF, Notre Dame, and Nebraska.

up above. Its all about the quick turn-around. Stoops goes to OU and wins a national championship in year two; Tressel goes to Ohio State and wins a national championship in year two or three; Saban goes to LSU and wins a co-championship early on. Some coaches have done it very quickly; therefore athletic directors and school presidents want the quick turn-around at their school, too.

I do not believe race had anything to do with it. ND wanted a quick turn-around, or at least significant progress; and they were going sideways at best. If anything, Ty is being treated equally with all of the coaches at high pressure jobs these days. Win fast--or else..

If they hired a black coach in the first place---how could their firing him in three years be called racist?

The next great 49er coach.

After these past two seasons, I do not believe a white coach would have kept his job at ND. I think Willingham should have been canned after the prestigious and coveted Insight Bowl instead of before it, but I do believe he should have been canned and any white coach woulds have been, too.

Ray Rhodes was mentioned in this thread. He went 8-8 with the Packers, but the other two coaches who went 8-8 (Pete Carroll and Chan Gailey) were fired (Gailey even made the playoffs that year), too. Oh, and for the record: a.) the Packers were the most talented of those three squads, and b) Rhodes SAID he deserved to be fired because he failed to motivate the team.

If there is hesitancy to hire black coaches, it's because they're tougher to fire - too many people spouting "higher standard" and playing the race card any time it happens. I have never heard anyone BUT a black coach admit that a black coach deserved to be fired (I'm sure people like Limbaugh have made such statements, but I'm not a listener of theirs), but some of them do deserve it - and Willingham was one of them. After a 10-3 start he went 11-12 in two seasons, both of which were complete wastes of time and too much being on the business end of blowouts.

If you lose to SC by 31 points 3 years in a row, Notre Dame WILL fire your ass.

although there is not enough of a track record long term to study formally, it seems that the revolving door, especially at the professional level, doesn't seem to include them. It will come in both the NBA and the NFL, there are too many talented black assistant coaches for it not to. At the college level it's going to take longer, especially with football. Pro coaches don't have to go through the recruiting process, for the most part, they have GMs who sign and draft players (at least if they are smart about it) and theoretically, they are dealing with professionals who have been around for a bit. College coaches have to go into people's houses and convince them (and their sons) to attend their school and play for them. Despite all the progress on racial issues in this country over the past decades, we still have a long way to go, and there are many places, and many families, where a black coach is not going to be automatically as welcome as a white one. that's simply the truth, and it makes the job of a coach like willingham more difficult (and it's even worse at a school without the reputation of Notre Dame)

Second, why are there more black assistants in the NFL than in college? it's an interesting question. How many white players in high scohol play for black coaches? How many pee-wee leagues, or pop-warner leagues are coaches by black men? There is an unspoken tradition in this country, women coach girls, black men coach blacks, white men coach anyone they want. until that changes, until there are black coaches at multi-racial high schools, until there are black coaches at majority white high schools,black college coaches will continue to struggle with recruiting, and therefore their jobs.

There is no tradition of black college coaches in this country, and people look for tradition. It will take a generation to fix, at the

mandated interviews (especially like the transparent ones where it's clear someone like Bill Parcells already has the job) and people stopped vapor-locking every time a black coach got fired (especially the ones that deserve it), the problem would fix itself faster. Not today or tomorrow, but faster.

Hire a white guy, and you can fire him in less than a year with no hassle. Hire a minority, and you get Jesse Jackson and Michael Wilbon screaming bloody murder regardless of the circumstances. No matter what someone's qualifications are, circumstances like that will make someone think twice. JMO.

the place with the highest percentage of black coaches. And they actually serve a good purpose. Even if the job is already earmarked for Steve Mariucci or Bill Parcells, it puts new names in play. The experienced coaches won't play this game, they don't need to, so the teams end up interviewing assistants, often ones with lesser known names. So the Cowboys or Lions go out and find some young assistants to interview, people who are a couple of years away from being ready to be a head coach, and all of a sudden, they have some credibility, people start thinking of them as possible head coaches. That helps bring new blood into the revolving door, which is a good thing. The problem is not really at the NFL level now, it's at the high school and college level. the NFL is fixing itself nicely by beginning to expand the echo chamber of coaches.

Why so few black head coaches in the NFL? not because of racism now, but because it is safer to hire someone who has already been a coach. the mandated interview process opens the roster of names up a bit, making it easier for a team to take a chance on a new head coach, of any racial background, and that is a good thing.

What's next? Gays not being allowed in the military?

They have to hide it. If they're "outed" they're kicked out.

So thanks for apologizing for homophobia.

and still serve. Read up on it.

Or the gay Arabic translators that were discharged.

And gays are only discharged if they HAVE engaged in or say they intend to engage in homosexual activity while in the service.

I don't agree with the policy. I don't agree with the discharges, and I think a suitable accommodation can be reached to allow gays to serve openly and to engage in lawful sexual activity. Hard for them to do though, since sodomy is against the UCMJ. That's why they get discharged.

Jews are only discharged if the HAVE engaged in or say they intend to engage in Jewish prayer while in the service.

But nooo, that's not antisemitic! :eyes:

is against the UCMJ. Prayer is not.

Would you still support it?

support Sodomy being against the UCMJ, but Congress has deemed it so.

Oh, no homophobia around here! Nothing to see! So stop saying that!

Like I said, I have zero problem with gays serving openly in the military. Logical accomdations will have to be made, however.

:eyes:

Same homophobic bullshit excuse the Army uses to support their policy.

and you know it. Gay men are sexually aroused by men, not all men, but by men in general. It's EXACTLY the same thing as forcing a woman to room with a man who MIGHT find her sexually attractive.

You said that gays should be allowed in the military, as long as they're segregated. (hmm). In that other thread, you were admitting that segregation would never work. Basically, you don't want gays in the military, you just aren't willing to admit it up front.

As commander of an Air Force Sq I had several openly gay men in my unit. No way was I going to force them out.

There had only been 3 such losses in ND's entire history prior to Willingham.

I do think Ty deserved another year, but will forgive ND if they have some rock star lined up. Me thinks it's Butch Davis.

Apparently he has an "ND" clause in his contract, where if he's offered the ND job, he can get out of his contract with Utah hassle-free.