The Jesuits must be turning over in their graves now

Years and years ago, like 1969 I took a Christian marriage course at a Catholic University, this was right after I left the convent. The priest who taught the course was totally for birth control. I can remember his words to this day, he said how can the Pope and those who make the rules say people should not use birth control? They are not married, they do not have a family to support, they do not experience a family. He used this is as an anology, if parents were to put a pair of shoes outside their door, prayed to God to fill them with food and money, would He do this? No. That is what the Catholic church is telling you to do. Pray and God will take care of you. That is not reality. When you wake up in the morning the shoes will be empty. The leaders of the church are not in touch with reality. If the priests can't experience they do not understand what people experience. How can the leaders of the church tell you what to do, if they have not been there?
The priest also said on sin, if you believe something is a sin then it is sin, if you don't think so, then it is not a sin. He said follow your beliefs. Wonder if he is still a priest? Sure wish I could remember his name. He was great. His words were what I needed to hear after leaving the convent. Gosh, when I left the convent if I drank too much, I thought I was a sinner, the priest told me he did not want to hear this from me anymore. Did I hurt anyone? No. Then, no problem.
This was one college course that left an impression with me. I'll never forget it, I still feel like I am back in his class. He was sooo good.

about the Pope, "He no play-a the game, he no make-a the rules..."?

It's amazing, isn't it, how far the Church has strayed from the progressive message and attitudes of Vatican II.

And I just read something somewhere (age is getting to me) that the Jesuits are now the number one target of the right-wing conservative segment of the Catholic hierarchy... I have to say I was very impressed with almost every Jesuit I ever had dealings with.

They understood the human race. I attended some classes at a Jesuit University and also worked with them. They were very understanding. I don't hear much of the Jesuits anymore. They were human and understood what people were experiencing. I admire the Jesuits .

when Pope John the XXIII died. But sad to say, America died with John Kennedy and Martin Luther King died -- all within the same amount of time. Makes one wonder! Wasn't there a song about the John's? America and the Catholic Church is no longer the same. I don't think the world has ever buried or taken care of those wounds. To me life stopped and has never recuperated from this. For those of you in DU who do not remember those days, I think you are still in the triangle.

was the exception rather than the rule. The Church had been dead long before him. His appearance only made it seem like it would revive, but after his death the reforms he had pushed through (over bitter opposition) were gradually rolled back and business as usual resumed

I also have always respected the Jesuits love of knowledge and learning.

if the whole church was like the Jesuits.

John Paul II. A sexist, homophobic, regressive bigot. It's time for JP to move on. He doesn't exist in a real world.

I remember the first time that I saw a book attacking Vatican II. I thought that it was an absolutely bizarre concept, an obvious fringe element.

I wish that I could still think that. :(

oh and he said this after Vatican II I believe,

who is Earl Butz?

was an ex-Jesuit. He rocked. From what he said, his order was very open ethically and philosophically, which is probably why he taught a relativistic version of ethics. This means that ethical standards are left to the individual to hash out, within reason.

However, the philosophy department chair of the university where I did my undergrad work thought that this viewpoint was not only wrong, but a cancer to the scholastic environment. He did his graduate work at Notre Dame in the philosophy of religion--not ethics--and also studied to become a priest.

I seem to hear a lot more of the latter lately, but when I was parish hopping I found an empathetic priest that taught the previous. They are still out there, you just have to look a little.

"Let the following Rules be observed.

First Rule. The first: All judgment laid aside, we ought to have our mind ready and prompt to obey, in all, the true Spouse of Christ our Lord, which is our holy Mother the Church Hierarchical."

edit: forgot the link
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/loyola-spirex.html

He was speaking reality my dear!

Are we talking about the same church that once taught that the bible was the literal word of god? That babies that died without baptism don't go to heaven because of original sin? That evolution is a lie?

I don't hear those viewpoints espoused in the church anymore, and haven't for many years. So why must we slavishly, and blindly, adhere to mandates that are laid upon us without knowledge of our personal experiences or situation? Is everything in life black and white? I think not.

Which claims authority as Christ's Church by apostolic succesion through Peter

Roman Catholic Church.

because I don't think we are talking black and white here. Give some examples. Something tells me you are not Catholic. Something tells me you are........? If you read my post, there is no black and white!!!

I must not have communicated effectively. I meant that some, IE some in the church, would have us believe that ethics are an easy black and white issue, which I don't think they are.

And yes, I am a cradle Roman Catholic, and still practicing I might add. :)

And maybe someone would have stole the shoes.

the shoes will be empty. Don't count on blind faith. Just because we are told to believe, does not mean the shoes will be filled. We need to help one another, that includes the government who protects the American people.

Everyone especially you pukes put your shoes outside your door tonight, ask God for them to be filled, contact me tomorrow and let me know how filled they are.. with what,? who cheated?

Do you pukes have your groceries? Do you pukes have a doctor available for emergencies without cost? Do you pukes have a job on Monday? Do you pukes feel happy? Do you pukes feel proud?

Going to a Jesuit college has really been an awesome experience because I have been exposed to open-minded Catholic theology- and it was suprising to learn about guys like St. Ignatius Loyola who was pretty damn liberal. He called for God to be seen in all things- like science, music, and literature.
I've had nothing but great conversations with the Jesuit monks on campus- some are just too freakin' cool for words. Hell, one of them loves Eminem :o
If the Catholic church was more like the Jesuits, I'd be a Catholic. That's how much I admire the Jesuits.

Except that I'm a Catholic Jesuit admirer. :)

The church has different factions, just like anything else, and I chose the one that, I think, makes the most sense.

But that's just me. I'm sure that there are others that may not consider my viewpoint valid, and that's just fine with me. :shrug:

I do agree with you. The Jesuits are the best but they are doomed because of the current WH. Karl the Rove Nazi will be sure to bring them down. Rove is evil, he wants to bring down the Catholic church and all churches if they disagree with him.