Anyone else read "He's Just Not That Into You"?

My mom gave it to me for xmas because she knows I'm going through a rough time. I read it in one day, and I was just blown away by it. Here's a few of the things it says:

1. If a guy's not asking you out, he's not that into you.
2. If a guy's not calling you, he's not that into you.
3. If you do all the work, a guy isn't going to feel challenged. (yes, it's kind of like The Rules, but I found this one much more palatable.)
4. If he's not having sex with you, he's not that into you.

I was like, well then! That simplifies things. What do you all think? Is this true?

I highly recommend the book, by the way.

Published in September, the book has become a bestseller, with a million copies in print; a major movie deal is almost final. The tome's catchphrases ("Don't waste the pretty!") are peppering the female lexicon. One of my editors recently shrugged in response to a story pitch: "Eh. I'm just not that into it." My exchange with Anna Jane suggested that the book's philosophy had penetrated far enough into her psyche not only to make her reconsider her current dating life, but also to retroactively recast an old love affair. How could she reduce a relationship that involved so many heartbreaking complexities down to one simplistic evaluation? Does the book offer a one-line romantic litmus test that will free us all from regret and self-recrimination? Or is it just turning us in increasingly dizzying circles?

It made my stomach hurt. Were other people's deliciously painful memories of failed relationships being wiped clean, "Eternal Sunshine"-style, and replaced with this one-sentence mantra? I sent an e-mail to a handful of friends asking them about the phenomenon and urging them to pass my query along to their friends. Within 24 hours my inbox and voice mail were deluged with messages from women I didn't know. So great was the tidal wave of fascination with the HJNTIY craze that I received multi-paragraph missives and had long conversations about the book with women who had not read it.

Ian Kerner, a sex therapist and the author of "She Comes First," will publish a response to HJNTIY in February. "Be Honest: You're Not That Into Him Either!" will be released by HarperCollins' ReganBooks. Kerner, 38 and married, acknowledged the fundamental truth of the original book's message, but said it's presented in deeply flawed ways. Kerner objects to Behrendt and Tuccillo's advice about not making phone calls or being aggressive. "It's like they're telling us to sit back pulling petals off daisies: He's into me, he's not into me..."

" felt so prescriptive and so goddamn cocky and like such a simplistic view of life and love," Kerner said. "Any relationship comes down to two people and backgrounds and context and how they meet, and to reduce it to a set of rules ... There's something insidious about it ... It is disempowering and a lot like "The Rules," and it sort of leaves all the power with the guys." As a sex therapist, Kerner said, he finds that both genders fall "prey to complexities and vulnerabilities, and men wonder how to be masculine and what to do. So I would hate for a woman to read that book and think that any guy that doesn't call simply isn't into her. In some cases it might be true but definitely not always."

http://archive.salon.com/mwt/feature/2004/12/06/hjntiy/index.html

woman? It sounds vaguely familiar and none to appealing!

P.S. If he isn't have sex with you, he probably is married to you. :P

I do agree with the author that a bad relationship is worse than no relationship. I'm willing to wait for someone to come to me. Of course, it may never happen.

Give me solitude, if you can't give me Mr. Right (or a clone of Richardo! :P)

He probably is indeed married to you. :7

and have sex with you even when they AREN'T 'into you'.... further complicating matters!

if they're ONLY having sex w/ you (as opposed to having it w/you only...)

:evilgrin:

and i agree with most of what i have seen about it...i think women wait around for men way too much!

Although 1, 2, and 4 could describe one partner in any relationship being "not into" the other.

#3 is sort of the mommy complex. Some guys are looking for that - for a living partner, not a romantic partner.

and chasing all the wild boys.

But I have to agree with the poster above "if he's not having sex with you" should probably end "...you've been together for 12 years"

:shrug:

It was all about how women shouldn't pursue men, because men are hardwired to want to chase, and if you take that away they won't be interested. So you can't call him, you can't ask him out, you can only stay on the phone 5 minutes because you have to show you are very busy and popular, etc.

It was a hugely popular book and then there was a huge backlash.

Hello, and goooooodbye

/Lovitz
/SNL

'snagged' JFK, Jr., by following the rules.

I guess the rules helped them find men but not keep them.

because I would think she isn't interested. Some men do like assertive women. I don't necessarily want a woman to chase me but it is nice when she makes it really obvious that she's interested. At least then I don't have to guess.

I had a lot of guy friends when I was younger, so I knew a lot of this stuff instinctually. Fortunately, I never let myself get caught up in the hoping game that many women do. Will and I have been together for 10 years (our anniversary is Thursday) and my single girlfriends don't really listen to me when I try to tell them this. It's good someone else is out there giving practical, if hard, advice to women.

The book is written by a guy who's a self-confessed "former asshole" who is now married and has a single sister and many single female friends. He writes it very much in the style of the big brother who loves you to pieces but isn't going to let you put up with any bullshit either.

My brother used to treat girls like shit and have them at his beck and call. He would cheat on them, lie about them, even steal from them and they'd still come back. I never knew what made me angrier, his behavior, or the girls who would excuse it.

Why do women do that to themselves anyway? That's the real question, to my mind.

but I guess things can be really good in the beginning, and you fall in love, and then he starts doing things, small things, that hurt and disappoint you, and you think, "Well, he's just going through a rough time," and it creeps in so gradually and insidiously that you don't even realize it by the time you are putting up with some pretty major BULLSHIT and all your friends are saying, "Why the hell are you still with this guy?" You can put up with some shit you'd never believe when it happens that way...

We put way too much emphasis on finding the right person as opposed to being the right person. It really bothers me to see smart, intelligent women just losing it over some dick who isn't even worth the time of day. I just want to grab them and say, "YOU ARE BETTER THAN THIS!"

It is simple and women need to stop rationalizing all of this. I know women play games and so do men. But let's stick to men for a moment. Unless he is pursuing you he's not in to you. Move on women.

If he has sex with you, he's not **necessarily** into you, either.

THAT'S why we get so confused.
;)

i think the point of this book is to make people more aware that if you think hes not into you..he probably isnt...quit making excuses for yourself and for him.

...intangible as relationships between people are totally stupid.

one that their friends cant/wont offer them

i didn't need to read this. it is true to extent. i must face the fact that he's just not into me. :-(

And isn't no relationship better than a bad relationship? (Sometimes I have a hard time believing this, especially around the holidays...)

to him, there are complications. although, upon reflection i do feel as though i have done the 'chasing' and, the phrase out of sight out of mind is the perception i get from him toward me.

You deserve better!

:hug:

Sounds like your Mom is not into you either. What a cruel gift.

Yes, clearly, if a man is not asking you out or trying to win your attention or having sex with you, then he is not interested in you, but you shouldn't need your Mom to point that out. I presume there is some history there, but I'm afraid to ask.

She was being kind, and truly it is kinder to know the truth. It may seem like common sense, but I did not know these things before. You have to read the book to understand. It was a really nice gift. It's changed my life.

My Mom used to give cruel self-improvement gifts but I think she finally read enough Miss Manners to realize that it just wasn't done to give books that imply the recipient is not yet smart enough, spiritual enough, toned enough, or whatever enough.

Don't get me wrong, but I can't quite wrap my head around anyone not knowing the four bullet points you listed in your original post. Supposedly I'm a high-functioning autistic but I do know if a man isn't try to get it on it is because he isn't interested. There are no gentleman bystanders in the war of the sexes!

Well anyway-

You are going to be truly amazed at how many horny, interested guys are out there once you open your eyes to them and close your time and attention to the disinterested. You're going to have some fun in the New Year, I'm thinking. :-)

I used to make excuses like, "He's busy so he can't call" or "He's just shy so that's why he isn't asking me out" and you know, your girlfriends will back you up on that stuff. This author just cuts through the bullshit. He says, "If I am really into you, I want to call you every day because I miss you and I want to hear your voice. You are the bright spot in my day. If I don't call you, it's because I'm not thinking about you. If I'm not thinking about you, I'm not into you." It's like, ouch! And, wow! And, crap! What an idiot I've been!

I'm sorry about your mom, I understand your reaction now...moms can be the worst, you know? :hug:

I hope you're right about the New Year! :evilgrin:

:evilgrin:

:loveya:

there's no point in "hunting" without a sign that the woman wants to be "hunted". No feedback meens "not interested"

Most of the time we don't realize these things until it's too late.

It took you one day to read it? It must be an interesting book that I will have to check out while I am on Christmas vacation. :hug:

I'm starting to get okay with being single too. I wouldn't mind finding the right person though. ;-)

I can tell you that we are all pretty much assholes, even if we're kind considerate compassionate assholes (oxymoron.. yes, but I'm an asshole)... we are alas still assholes. Every last one of us has at least one person out there who feels that way about us.

Having said that, Ill dispel some myths... Firstly some guys Looooove to be chased, seriously I find nothing as enticing as strong women just coming out and saying what they want.

Secondly most men want communication they just don't want to be inundated with calls, emails, pages. so go ahead and communicate.

Thirdly and this is most important, the good men out there are unclassifiable, so to try and group them within a given context of wants and needs without having met them is a useless practice.

Point is, take each individual as they come into your life with all your knowledge in mind but with an open mindedness that belies yours and others mistakes from the past...

and remember we're all assholes... no matter how nice.

Mr. Bouncy isn't an asshole, and while I've never met you, I think I can safely say from what I've read of you here that YOU are most certainly not an asshole. Not even a compassionate asshole!

Mr. Bouncy is incredibly devoted, generous, loving, kind, and wonderful.

He can ACT asshole-ey at times, but then I can ACT bitchy too. Doesn't make him an asshole or me a bitch.

Well the assholeing was a bit tongue in cheek, but I essentially meant it the way you put it. We're all asshole-ish at one time or another.

I have no doubt about your Mr. Bouncy, for I think that you would not settle for less.

As for me, well I have a thing about asses in general.;-)

I found it because I read the whole thread. I found this topic fascinating. I hate it when the media (sitcoms, commercials etc) stereotype men to be these insipid foolish assholes all the time, bumbling around, screwing up everything they touch. Grrrrr. I know you weren't saying that, but it makes me mad how man-bashing is apparently very socially acceptable, but women would never put up with the same thing!

I love men! :hug:

So glad to see someone take up for the boys...

Maybe thats the problem with guys, they just dont know when they're wanted.

but then again Im drunk soooo...

uhm yep!

Well THAT sounds fun! Cheers! :toast:

And I bet you have to beat the women off, don't you? I saw your picture, don't say you don't!

Me?! Beat women off? LOL, you've gotta be kiddin' me! OK so I was told that recently by someone else, and she implored me to belive that I was in fact not ugly. But thats as far as Im going. I am not ugly and uhmm, thank you...*blush*

Im only a bit tipsy now, dont you love how good tequila just gets in real fast and leaves smoothly and without a fuss?

:pals: :hug: :toast:

And quit being so modest!

If I guy wants to be with you, he'd call.

PS... I believe #4 should be...
If he is only sleeping with you, he's not that into you.

there was a thread of mine from a month ago where i really wanted to say this to a friend of mine...but didnt cos its rude...

I did not know these things before I read this book.

And I don't believe that you can define relationships with a series of sound bites. None of these are necessarily going to be true all the time - the guy I'm with right now wanted to ask me out for quite some time but didn't have the guts. I finally asked him - we've been together for four years. So that's numbers 1 and 3 that were not necessarily accurate for my particular situation.

I'm 44 - just about every guy I've gone out with has told me that he wished women were more open to being the instigator in asking them out or getting their number. They got sick of always being the one who had to put it out on the line and face a potential shootdown. They would have welcomed someone who offered it first - I don't mean stalking. I just mean doing what men are always expected to do - approaching and saying hi. Asking for a number. I refuse to believe that the majority of men prefer to do all the work.

As for guys not calling, I've never, ever known any guy who called as often as any woman wanted. Most guys I know aren't much for talking on the phone unless they actually have something to say - then they say it and get off the phone. Women, on the other hand, seem to talk all the time on the phone and about nothing really.

The thing about sex is about the only thing I'd agree with but even that can have qualifiers. People are more complex than this. You can't expect to weigh them all with a series of rules. It's just not logical. You have to take each individual as they come.

but I said it from a guy view... but its pretty much the same.

If you value individuality and uniqueness why look for a person that is easily categorized and labeled? besides people just vary... in regards to just about everything.

I'm borrowing it from her now. I think it's great. It's pretty common sense advice, but that's the best kind. Basically, if you have doubts about the guy's interest level in you, it's not a good sign. If they're into you, they'll let you know.

The author is telling women to stop making excuses for their bad behaviour, you deserve more.

As for the phone issue, I disagree. A guy may not be a phone person, but he will make time to talk to you if he's into you.

just punch in the correct values, and voila! -- your shining (with a metallic hue) prince on a white horse (or was that a hoverboard)!

then this book isn't necessary for you. Congrats on being so smart and intuitive and never having your heart broken by a liar.

A lot of us however, are stuck in 'nice' mode, and believe when someone sincerely tells us-"Hey I had a great time-I'd love to do it again. I'll call you," is the truth. We want to believe it. We wouldn't lie like that to someone.
A lot of the women were being confused by asshats who were telling them "See ya in a few," and "I'll call you" and "I'd like to marry you you some day"-women who were being texted messaged and emailed and called as 'back-burner' material-in case 'Babe A' gave them the shove, or they were on booty call lists.

I wish I'd had the book a couple of decades ago. :(

Good Luck, janesez!

:hi:

he was so good with those women on the show, they were all seriously beautiful and wasting their time with guys who were just not into them. the thing is, we want to believe it when they tell us the sweet stuff, so we tend to ingore or forgive the "just not that into you" signals sometimes.

anyway, it sounds like a good book to snap us back into reality :)

These were women who were holding themselves back from doing stuff with new guys because Mr Charming Asshole had been text messaging for 8 months.

Like I said-if I'd had this knowledge years ago-well I think life would be way different for me

It's easy to feel superior when this has never happened to you, but you can be smart and capable and independent and all those wonderful things, and you can still get all fucked up in a relationship and put up with things you'd never normally put up with. It's just the way it goes.

I heard the guy was cool as hell. He seems it, just through his writing. :)

stuff that dating books have been about for years and years. It's just a rehashing of the same ol' thing. Which makes me sad, 'cause I'd have thought that women these days would be better off in dealing with men than they were when I was young (I'm middle aged now).

Sigh. Young men are not looking for love and commitment as much as young women are. That's a fact. The good news is (if you consider it good news) is that the tables on turned when you get older. Almost invariably older men want (need?) to get married, while older women are not too keen on the idea (no longer a need for marriage to have children, and a concern about finances seem to take precedence).

If I could offer one piece of advice to young women (based on my past mistakes) it would be this: Play extremely hard to get, act as if you're too good for him, and don't let on you care as much as you do. For some odd reason, men fall for that act, while getting scared of the opposite behavior/feelings. It's like that Woody Allen joke (that men really believe): Why would I want to belong to a club that'd have me as a member? Men want you more if they think you're too good for them...and they think you're too good for them if you ACT like you are. Go figure. (Oh...and they also need to think there's competition for your affections.)

decent men (aka less of assholes) will look for decent women. By appearing unaproachable, or too-good-for-you you will mostly ONLY attract the trophy hunters and be ignored by the ones who just want a decent cozy relationship.

In my area the to-good-for-geeks-girls etc allways had the worst assholes and were cheatet most upon if not abused.

like you don't care at all about the guy. You have to show interest, have a good time when dating him, etc., etc. Just don't act like you care if there's a SECOND date. Don't be available the next night to go out. Don't tell him you've put every other guy on the burner 'cause you like HIM so much. Things like that. That's not acting uppity. But the guy will never guess how much you really like him, and that's a good thing, if you want to hold the guy's interest.

Example: John Ritter (Three's Company) answered a question in an interview about why he fell in love with the girl he married, etc., since he had so many girls to choose from. He said that the main reason there was even a second date was that when he dropped her off and kissed her goodnight, she didn't ask if she'd see him again, if he'd call, or anything to indicate she wanted to see him again. He found this intriguing.

Can't take the hunter out of the man, I guess.

as i (mis)understood your other posting.

Yes this way sounds better, have a good time and don't worry about a second date, and don't make him to sure of his "prey" (but also not make him feel obligated to "carry on" as the other side of the coin). A guy is less likely to follow other "deer" when allready hunting, allthough there are cunning multitaskers as well ;-)

you'll need to give him the signs you enjoy his company though.

and no "rule" can apply to all of them.

From Mama Gena -

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0743439937/qid=1104184244/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/103-6955220-5611037

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0743247981/qid=1104184280/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/103-6955220-5611037?v=glance&s=books

trust me- I have used techniques in the first book to win someone back who was NOT INTO ME. He is now- he calls, he does some of the work and we are having way more sex than we used to!

The person who recommended the first one recommended the second and I plan to get it soon.

which neither of the authors of this book is.

I am going thru something similar to you Jane, and I only listen to my friends in long, happy marriages. Single people are full of bad advice...the happily coupled ones tell me to hang in there and keep trying. and it is working.

I met my SO through his sister, wasn't looking to get married for many years, but we became best friends, and 6 months later were married. Have been for 32 years now. You really do know the real thing when you meet them! It's a gut feeling, it's in your bones. You don't go through the waiting around with the right person. You'll know it.

I've been divorced for many years. Live in a big city. I believe that you have to actively look for the right person....he won't come knocking on your door one fine day. At least it didn't happen to me. Sure, I did all the right things...went places, pursued hobbies, worked, went to gyms, etc., all in the course of living a life and not actively looking for someone. Thing is...almost everyone in my age bracket is (and have been) married, so unless you join some singles clubs or otherwise actively look, odds are you won't meet anyone, much less the right person.

But I didn't care enough to actively look, so there you go. I met no one significant. (I am, I've been told, very attractive, and I'm healthy and normal weight, so it's not an appearance thing, I don't think.)

But for women over, say, 30, THE one is probably not going to see her from across a crowded room, etc., etc. She has to go somewhere or join something where she knows there will be an abundance of men in her age bracket who are actively looking for a mate...and hopefully where there won't be an overabundance of twenty-something babes to compete with (men being visual, sometimes they can't see the jewel in the crown, when it's surrounded by sparkling rhinestones)

people work differently, and last time I checked, men were people too.

It's the women that signal to guys whether they're interested or not. A woman has go to give you hard signs to let you know whether she wants to see you or not. If a guy doesn't get that vibe, then he won't pursue.

As for this book, most women foolishly limit their choice of men, which is why so many women cannot find a good man. If you limit your choices based on age, looks, career, and sucess in life, you are severely limiting your pool of good choices.

Hey ladies, every woman wants the successful, good-looking, Ivy League educated, Investement Banker. Every woman wants Brad Pitt. If you're limiting yourself to these choices, then you're going to fail at finding a good relationship for yourself.

sounds pretty straightforward to me.

Whenever a girlfriend of mine is just falling all over herself for a guy, it makes me cringe. When she spends all her emotional and mental energy and time obsessing over whether he's going to call or not, it just makes me cringe.

Desperation is a huge turn-off. So is not having a life of your own.

Oh and on edit, after reading all these responses, how about people just being THEMSELVES and stop playing games? Just be yourself. You don't have to chase the guy, he doesn't have to chase you, just be adults, be straight-forward and be your beautiful glorious self. And if he isn't that into you or you aren't that into him, then so be it. That's what dating is about. Shopping around until you find someone HUGELY into you that you are hugely into, too!

:loveya:

Don't pursue him... pursue him... they need signals you want them... let them do the chasing...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

:crazy:

And they say WE'RE complicated!

If two people both like each other, why play silly games? :shrug:

Just be human. Be yourself. Go with your gut. He'll either like you or not, but whatever it is, it will be genuine.

But what the hell do I know? (referring to my personal situation here)

Whatever happened to just doing what feels right? :shrug:

Somebody had to write a book about stuff that is common sense???

*phew*

I saw the guy that wrote that on Oprah, he seemed reasonable. I started thinking about past relationships that I had analyzed about why it didn't work etc. and after I applied "he just wasn't into me" I kind of just accepted it in a new way and let it all go. It simplifies things.

In a way, it hurts, but in another way, it makes it so much easier to accept. :)

He's just not that into me.. :cry:

I hear you. Get this book, it really helped me.

And... :hug:

They had to write a book about this????

Women tend to make excuses for why a man has not called or made contact. "Oh he's just busy". "Oh he's probably on a business trip" "Oh his mother is in town". BLAH BLAH BLAH. It's all bullshit. If he hasn't called move on - he's not interested. It really is that simple.

Here is some more common sense from me:

"When a man is interested - he will move heaven and earth to get to you"

Believe me I've been on both sides of that fence. When he wants you he finds a way to be with you. If not "He's just not interested".

women do the same thing too...

They're full-drag victimhood tomes that refuse to even admit that women indeed have and indeed abuse their power in relationships too. Feh. Sitting around waiting for Prince Charming is idiotic; he doesn't exist, you're not perfect either, and the best you can do if actively seek out someone who really interests you and pleases you. Women are just as likely as men to have a couple of options on a string; men just have a subset of true jerkoffs (who women romantically think of as "bad boys") who gloat over it.

Obviously. I'd say if he's not putting it in you, he's not "into you"...If you're wanting him to "get into you" THAT way, and he's not getting the hint, he's either REALLY not into you, or he's into your brother....

Or wants to get into your brother...