Okay it's official, my husband is an a**hole! - Warning long rant!

Anyone following the saga of my life knows about me putting my dog to sleep on 12/1/04 and the grief I have been struggling with.

Then I wrote about husband being a jerk, changing password to access banking accounts, acting weird, etc.

Just before Thanksgiving he announced he had decided to go to his family's in NY even though TG was planned for my family this year and he said he felt bad about me dealing with the sick dog at that time but he went anyway. I had to make up excuse for him not coming to my parent's house.

So just before Christmas he announces that we have different goals and the only way I can prove I have the same goals as him is to not spend any money for one whole year - 2005- on anything he deems unnecessary. He cited examples as: flowers in the Spring (I love to garden) and birdseed (I'm a birder). So basically no spending on anything that brings me pleasure I guess. All extra money will be applied to paying off bills. I told him that would be difficult, and he said he didn't think I could do it. So basically he is saying "Here is what you can do to keep me, but I know you can't do it."

I came into the marriage (of 4 years) with a townhouse, a car, and my dog. I had no debt, except for mortgage and car payment. None, zilch, nada. He had alot of debt. We sold my TH and he traded in my car on something else. We had a house built, small but nice on a 1.5 acres and bought furniture, landscaping, fencing, etc. So now it is MY fault we have dept. He says I have doubled the amount of debt he came into the marriage with and he wants it PAID OFF now! He was right beside me on every purchase we made for the house. It is not like I've been out buying clothes, jewelry, or other things just for myself.

So as Christmas approaches I am told I cannot buy presents for my family as I have always done because I spent alot on vet bills. I accepted that as did my family but they still sent us gifts. This just made him MAD. He refused to come to my parents for Christmas because I told them what was going on and he said he would feel uncomfortable. I spent the whole weekend with Mom and Dad and did my best not to feel guilty about leaving husband (they live 40 miles away), Mom sent me home with food, pie, cake, fudge, etc. and the gift them. He acted so blase about it all. My parent's usually give each child $1,000 for Christmas to buy whatever they want, but due to my husband's behavior they did not this year. Mom took me shopping and made me pick out something so I wouldn't have to turn the money over to my husband, and she bought him his own gift. Every other year he took the $1,000 (to pay bills) and I usually insisted that I would get to buy one thing just so I could tell my parents what I got (last year it was pajamas, and they only cost about $50) I guess husband was surprised not to get $$$ this year.

Now that I am able to control my grief over my doggie I'm getting pi**ed at husband.

Could any of you go for a year without spending any money on "unnecessary items." ????

Whew! it feels good to vent. Sorry to all of you who actually read this entire rant.

He's being completely unreasonable and your marriage can't survive that.

No I could not go a year without spending money on unnecessary items. And neither could my husband. I doubt your husband could either . . .

Big hugs and I hope things turn around.

And if he won't go, you go without him. There is something going on here that is about WAY more than money. I wish you luck.

GET AWAY FROM HIM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.


He sounds like every abusive boyfriend/husband/significant other I've ever known. They don't! get better, they only get worse! Any "improvement" is short-lived and is quickly overtaken by even worse behavior.

I can't emphasize this enough, but..

get away from him now!

cut your losses and GO!

He is abusive: takes away your nest egg, isolates you from your family. Cut your losses and run!!!

You and your husband need to lay everything out on the table just like you did with this post. Don't let him dismiss this as an unnecessary expence as this may be one of the few avenues for saving the marriage.

Simply put holding the line on spending while forgoing your hobbies that you live turns life into existance. Believe me, I know. You need your hobbies in order to keep your sanity.

Honestly, why does he get to decide where the money is to be spent? Yes, bills are a priority but come on, not even being able to buy your parents a Chirstmas gift. That's just mean spirited on his part. Going from the few sentences here, I think your hubby has control issues and he's using money to show his power. I couldn't take it.

kind of a miser yet when he buys something it always has to be top of the line.

He also seems to have trouble with the fact that my family is more "well to do" than his. But believe me, my parents worked hard for all they have and they have always been generous with us.

Another thing that ticked me off from the beginning of our marriage: whenever we would go to dinner with my parents my father always reached for the bill and paid. Whenever we went out to dinner with his parents we would always pay. I mentioned this to him one time and he said that my parents had more that his and since they live out of state he doesn't see them as often.

I also remember our first Christmas when I opened the box with 10 $100 bills in it, the first time my husband experienced getting the grand. (Mom and Dad always wrap it a different way, it is their idea of making us think we are getting something different). Anyway, that same year his parents sent us $50 dollars for Christmas and he made a big deal about the fact that their $50 was just as good as my parent's $1,000, and I should never tell his family about the money my parents gave. I told him of course his parents $50 was I wonderful gift and I appreciated it greatly. He acted like I was going to say something to his family like: "My parents gave us more money, na na na na"

Just too weird.

Taking this post in the context of your other one, I'm starting to agree with the people below in this thread who think your husband is a control freak. He gets pissed because your family having money means that you can escape him and you don't have to put up with his shit. Also, most control freak men are very insecure, just like you describe him being.

about money. 'Your' family vs 'his'. I think there is some real insecurity going on on his part. He doesn't sound like he is treating your marriage like a partnership (paying when you take his parents out but allowing your parents to pay when you go out with them), telling you you can't tell his parents what your parents got you guys. I feel for you ... I don't really know what you can do about it. Everyone always say's 'leave' but that's a very difficult thing to do. If you do leave though, at least you know you will get better Christmas gifts than he will :>

...cuz the rest of your life sounds like hell on earth.

YOUR HUSBAND.

Ignorant dogs like him are unlikely to change. Speaking of debt, it sounds like he hangs around your neck like a bad debt.

Tell him he's the only debt you're going to get rid of this year!

I haven't followed what's going on, so these are just my gut feelings. Let's say you did do this for a year. What is HIS contribution? Why do you have to change YOUR life? What you described doesn't sound like undue extravagances to me at all.

I'd seriously, seriously protect your finances, and seriously consider divorce. Because to me, this sounds like controlling, and pretty dangerous. I'd start taking steps to protect what is yours. I'd get legal advice if you possibly can. Counseling, at the very least, which I seriously doubt he'd agree to.

Don't apologize for a rant. It's healthy. I wish you the best.

account and changed my direct deposit to go to that account. I at least had enough wits about me to do that. I have just been so devastated about my 13 year old dog that my attention has not been focused on my husbands behavior growing stranger by the day.

His excuse for not telling me about changing the password was he knew how upset I was over my dog.

I think he's being totally unreasonable. Without him, you had a townhouse, a car (I assume a nicer one than you have now) and no debt. Now he's gotten you into huge debt and is trying to put restrictions on you. I say it's either time for counseling or time to get out. At least you were smart enough to open your own account and have your paycheck go there.

Good luck to you. I hope it all works out for you one way or the other.

Changing the password without telling you is a little like changing the locks on the door of your own house. And the thing about his strangeness having to do with money give me a bad feeling. I'm very sorry to say, but I think he doesn't want you spending the money because he's thinking of it all as his. And if he's thinking that way...it's like he could walk out with it at anytime. Because it does not sound like he's concerned about your feeling regarding the dog, or your plans with your family. It sounds as if he's *disregarding* you. And the thing about your family having more money, or you having things you like to do--if he wants to use these things against you without any reflection or sacrifice for himself, it comes across as manipulative on his part. Although others advocate counseling, I would say, protect yourself first. If you believe you trust this person even still, you can try--but definitely keep an eye on your self interest--because he sounds like he's out for himself.

I know this is based on just a rant and that I do not know the whole situation, but take care of yourself. It's the best advice I've got.

He's abusive. You might want to go now. Are you packed yet? Or are you kicking his ass out? Just wondering. Because if neither are forthcoming, I think you might want to look into treatment for codependency.

BTDT, got the bloody t-shirt.

but not after kicking my ass for hours. and she would be justified

asking us if we think it's time for you and he to split.

Maybe the time has come.

Wow, he is being totally controlling and unreasonable here. Why is it he is the one who deems what is unnecessary? Does he purchase anything at all for pleasure?

It really sounds like there's so much more to this than what's on the surface. Do you work? If so, you have a right to spend the money you make on whatever you want to, so long as bills get paid.

I don't know what to tell you but I would strongly suggest marriage counseling because you cannot sustain a relationship that is based upon one person telling the other what to do. That's no partnership.

And I'm so sorry you have to go through so much, especially over the holidays. :hug:

works.

I don't work and if my husband played this game, he'd be out on his ass. But he'd never DREAM of doing something like that.

ARGH this is pissing me off just reading about it!

Sorry, not meaning to argue with you, just pointing out that even if she doesn't work she still doesn't have to settle for this!

I worded that wrong - kind of free form thinking and writing. Thanks for the correction. :hi:

on a lawyer

He is trying to clean up debt before leaving you, and forcing you to suffer for it. Get rid of him now, and make him clean up his own mess.

I'd bet good money that's why he locked the account. Don't want the missus looking into the hotel bills.

Even if he isn't phsyically abusing you now, he will, eventually. He is in the first stages of dehumanizing you, and unless YOU put a stop to it and insist that he get counseling NOW, it will only get worse. Your husband has a major personality disorder.

Trust me on this--- as a former police officer I can assure you that warning sirens are going "OOGAH! OOOGAH!" right now, even if you can't hear them.

It's one thing to be concerned about debt, budget, etc. and discuss ways to manage things and pay off the debt. This is about controlling, plain and simple.

I just didn't want to be an alarmist. Controlling money, relationships, and things that bring her happiness; not good.

The pathology of your hubby goes pretty deep. He's really looking for a way out of the marriage. By setting up a "test" that you can't possibly pass, he's trying allieviate the guilt factor for himself ahead of time. This way the breakup of the relationship will be entirely your fault when it happens. This is typical of a passive-agressive narcissistic type abuser. I recognize it from my own experience with my ex.

Don't buy into the pathology - tell him his terms are unreasonable and get out if he won't get help. Sorry, but he probably won't accept this, so you'll have to leave. You will be better off without him, trust me.

really jumping to a number of conclusions here.

first, verbal abusers, control abusers, and physical abusers are different animals. it is true that physical abusers usually start out with verbal abuse or control abuse, but there are MANY in the first two categories that never go to violence.

second, disputes about money are as common as rain in seattle, especially when the money is tight. i wouldn't go thinking that the normal stress of trying to deal with financial pressures automatically means there's some abuse going on.

third, and this is very important, we're only hearing one side of the story. not to take ANYTHING away from minimus's story, it's simply not fair to judge without getting her husband's point of view. he surely views the situation differently, has a different approach to spending and saving, values different things differently, and so on.

with all due respect to your service as a police officer (i'm a former emt, myself) people in these capacities only see cases that turn out sour. no one calls the police or emts when the stress doesn't lead to physical abuse.

having said that, everyone should always find their own, individual way to maintain their own self-esteem, independent from their primary love relationship. this is the best defense for recognizing and protecting yourself from abusive relationships.


my conclusion, hearing minimus's story is, first off, is that she needs to get into marriage counselling asap. it is possible that the ONLY thing wrong with their marriage is the financial squeeze, in which case debt reduction counselling may suffice.

but i would start off with marriage counselling because at least, there a bit of a communications breakdown at the moment, and a marriage counsellor can not only hear both sides of the story, but can say things that sometimes people in a marriage can only accept if it comes from an objective third party.

he needs to hear, and understand, what's at stake for her in the apparently modest purchases, such as birdseed and flowers. no doubt he spends a comparable amount on some form of personal entertainment or hobby. in any event, if they put a financial plan together, they will probably see that a modest amount for such indulgements will likely set back their debt-clearing date by a month or so.

she needs to hear, and understand, what's at stake for him in the apparent urgency of getting clear of debt. is something coming up that we don't know about? i, myself, have gotten more serious about our own financial position because we're trying to get mrs. unblock pregnant, and she will be a stay-at-home mom, so we need to plan now for the loss of her income. perhaps something similar is in their future.

minimus, my heart goes out to you. but know that you are not alone, there are many, many people in very similar situations, and there are ways of getting through it. one way or another, hook up with other people who can help you understand what money issues can do to a marriage. hopefully, you and mr. minimus will find that your problems are not are hard as they seem at the moment.

best of luck and keep us posted!

Until all this came up I would have said he was a great husband. It sounds cliche but I think it is a mid-life crisis. He will be 40 soon and he talks about all the things he wanted to do. He wanted to hike the Appalachian Trail, he wanted a trailer so he could travel the country.

Now he has a house (we picked out and had built together) and a wife and more debt due to the house. We really do not live extravagantly. But I think he is freaking out thinking that he never accomplished the things he wanted to do and he can't blame himself so IT IS ALL MY FAULT!

I cannot have children due to previous medical problems and he knew this before we married and accepted it. Now he talks of not being able to leave a legacy.

Is it the mid-life crisis or more?

It could possibly be 'just a mid-life crisis', but I've seen far, FAR too many so-called mid-life crises become something MUCH worse to completely back off from my previous statement. The pattern of behavior you describe in your opening post just SCREAMS 'Warning! Danger! Danger!'. However it may spin out, I stand by my previous statement regarding the absolute need for your husband to seek counseling--- immediately.

i'm not nearly as worried as cuban_liberal in this aspect, but i certainly can't rule it out, either. plus it's foolish to ignore this kind of potential problem.

marriage counselling is the best approach for this, too. if you ask HIM to get counselling, he is VERY likely to say no, out of defensiveness and insult. however, if you BOTH go to marriage counselling, he's far more likely to agree. especially if he really thinks it's "your fault", in which case he might think the counsellor will surely agree with him and set you straight.

once there, the counsellor will probably recommend a few individual sessions as well, and should be able to uncover any abusive patterns and either get him the treatment he needs, or help get you out of an impossible situation.

seeing the big "four-oh" coming up can certainly do it for some people. for me, it passed like just another day, but mrs. unblock insists i'm a freak in that regard.

the key is to get him talking, and to do that, he has to be in a place where he can be comfortable talking. that's where marriage counselling helps. maybe it's coming up on 40, or maybe it's something you're completely unaware of, or maybe it's something he's been trying to tell you but you weren't hearing. but it seems, either he can't express it or you can't hear it right now.

maybe he is angry at you for holding him back or maybe YOU are personalizing his musing. maybe YOU somehow feel guilty when in fact, he doesn't blame you at all.

the fact that there is a fertility issue also can be a big factor. maybe he didn't realize how much he wanted children. mrs. unblock was declared infertile over 2 years ago (premature ovarian failure) but a new doctor has found that she probably CAN become a mother after all, with the help of several carefully timed hormone pills and injections. if that fails, we can still do in-vitro fertilization with a donor egg. if THAT fails as well, we can adopt.

in any event, we have been through quite a few emotional ups and downs in the quest for children, and mrs. unblock was far more interested in the "child-free" option than i ever was, partly due to the asymmetry of the condition (she thought "she" was infertile, i thought "we" were infertile).

anyway, just find a way to get him talking. either you or a counsellor must find out why the message isn't getting across, and solve that problem before you can figure out what the real problem is.

i'm sure you'll work it out, just be patient.

buying a bright red car is a midlife crisis, this is the begining of abuse.

down to the dog.

I'm so sorry about your dog, and also about the turn your marriage has taken.

But this has all the earmarks of, at worst, an abusive relationship, and, sorry to say, at best, a relationship coming to an end.

Please take care of yourself and get legal advice. Protect your assets, and be prepared to either leave of have him leave.

Any signs or suspicions of an affair on his end?

verbal or controlling behavior are also ways to abuse. They all beat down your self esteem/ self worth. NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO DO THAT TO ANYONE!

It sounds to me like he might have something going on the side too. Trying to justify it by pointing out your real or imagined flaws. I've been there and have seen the writing on the wall not only with my own life but with friends as well.

Mid-life crisis is an excuse made up by men to justify acting like juvenile assholes in their 30's-40's. Women buy it to deny the truth so they don't have to deal with it.

and I agree %100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess he decides what is necessary? I have no problem with being very frugal to pay off debt, but not in the way he is talking about it. He is not discussing it with you but giving you an ultimatum. Is it possible you are more to blame for the debt than he is? Either way he is being abbusive.

He has some issues with money and it seems to me like he has taken advantage of you financially if you sold your house and put the money into a house you both own. But it is hard to judge from just reading one post.

I'd insist on counseling for him and together. Make it someone who deals with financial issues in marriage.

It sounds as if you guys need marriage help ASAP before there is no marriage left.
Stories like yours make me feel grateful I have remained single all these years.

If I cannot buy any "unnecessary" items for one year then the same would have to apply to him.

At what point is something deemed necessary? Food, clothing, shelter are the norms, but what if my clothes wear out or I get bigger or smaller and they no longer fit? Do I just have to sew the holes, do I have to lose or gain weight?

The more I talk about this, I can see it is absurd.

from his password locked account. This thing screams mistress to me.

There are a lot of guys who will act like assholes to force a woman into a fight, thereby giving the guy a reason to walk out.
How much clearer can he be than telling you he doesn't think you can do what he demands to prove that you "have the same goals." Talk to a divorce lawyer - it won't commit you to any immediate action. Most people consult with a divorce lawyer several times before they actually decide to proceed. I think your husband does not want to be saddled with debt when he walks away from the marriage. this is called getting his ducks in a row before he has the divorce papers served. "Acting weird" and changing the password to access bank accounts are also blatant signs that he's preparing to split. It may be that he's squirreling away funds that you won't know about; or that he's spending money on another woman. It almost sounds as if he's the sole source of income for your household. If you have a salary, how could you let him tell you not to buy gifts for your family?

He's trying to ditch and make her pay a wrongful share of the bill. She's got to fight back against that cretin.

I would start protecting my financial interests and I would be brutal about it. Being nice will get you nothing but walked on. He is already squirling away the money in other accounts in all likelyhood.

The same type of thing happened to me about 15 years ago, and I couldn't for the life of me understand why my ex was being such an a**hole. He wanted me to end it so he could look like the loyal one in the relationship and I was the cruel quitter. Later after the breakup I found out he'd been cheating for a long time.

The more information you can get ahead of time the better off you'll be if you end up in divorce court. Put away some of your own money to prepare for your future. You'll be OK.

And I'm so sorry about your dog. That's a heartbreaking thing to go through.

It sounds like he's got something warming up on the stove...

And for some reason, she mostly followed my advice and did the smart thing. She documented all of the family assets, and waited him out. He finally left her about 2 weeks after she had decided once and for all that it was over. She was about to leave, and I talked her into waiting him out. He left, and then the truth started to come out. He had somebody on the side, who was even coming over to their house when she was not there. So skanky.

Now the "other woman" is pregnant, which throws salt into the wounds of my sister's infertility. BUT, the legal story is very clear. He left her, she gets at least half of the assets. She saw a lawyer, and is protected. Hope the divorce is final soon.

He TOLD you you CANNOT??? Oh honey, that is the signal for any woman to go do the exact thing you were TOLD you CANNOT do.

Yes, I'd say you have different goals. But it's not about how much debt you've got.

My husband and I have fought over money for 25 years. He's the one that buys the stupid shit, although bird seed and flowers aren't stupid unless you've got no food. We've fought over specific stupid shit, sometimes he buys it, sometimes not. But there's never been "tests" and I can't even imagine not spending the holidays together.

I'm so sorry you're going through this, maybe it's time to separate your money or something.

Finding out what is behind this bizarre behavior and setting absolute boundaries with her child/husband is in order.

With loud and clear action. It isn't her job to find out what's behind his bizarre behavior, that just keeps her on the merry-go-round. Get off and go live her life. He can get off the merry-go-round and go with her, or find another pony to ride.

but I interpreted your post as saying that she should just rebel(which would be indirect and passive aggressive), whereas I think she should sit him down and say "No, you don't dictate the rules. I will spend my money the way I deem to be reasonable and we will work together on our mutual debts and BTW, what the hell is wrong with you?!" or something to that effect (which would be assertive with a slight push into the aggressive).

I've been trained to watch for the sideways ways or passive aggressive ways of handling problems. I used to be a master of those ways so I have to work hard to see them in me, not so hard to see them in others.

I might well have misinterpreted what you said.

Which is sometimes why it's best to just take action, start living your life; first step in making him confront his fears which are really what drives control issues. He can then learn to accept the new reality or she can figure out how far he will really go to control her. It's not a passive/agressive game at all, not when one person is doing what they have a right to do in the first place.

For any person though, when a partner says you CANNOT do something, that is a signal that you better do that exact thing or you're on a path of giving up more and more of yourself. Not good. Also not good to let it turn into some sick, twisted game they both play; which I'm definitely not suggesting.

on a good therapist for him, or a good divorce attorney.

I just watched my friend go through this with her husband, who she was with for 13 years. He started with financial controls as your husband is. Then he moved on to berating her appearance (she's GORGEOUS). By the time he started hitting her, we helped her move out.

Now she's got a restraining order AND an attorney, and her ex does not know where she lives. We live in fear that he will find out.

If you can't stand to leave him yet, get him help. He needs to know NOW that you won't stand for this mental abuse. I pray that he wouldn't escalate to violence for your sake, but many signs are there. He knows he's setting you up to fail. Don't take this.

I hope that everything works out for you. Please stay as strong as you have shown us you are by sharing such personal things. You need people to talk to. We will all support you through this.

But see a lawyer, too. Find out what you can do to protect yourself--whether he splits first or not.

got phone numbers from a friend for both a good marriage counselor and for a good divorce attorney.

Told husband (at the time, not current, wonderful husband!) that I had both numbers ... I wanted us both to go to counseling, but I was going to go myself even if he didn't.

We did counseling together for a while, then he quit going after he and therapist had a one-on-one discussion (after I was asked to leave the room).

I did end up also calling the lawyer and getting a divorce ... he came after me physically one night ... I left that night, met with the lawyer two days later. Two months later we were divorced.

He accused me of having pre-planned it, which was NOT true. It just didn't take that long, since we had no children (thank goddess!) and we managed the property settlement pretty much on our own. It took me a while to decide to leave him, but once I decided I just didn't see the piont in wasting any time and dragging things out.

That's the bigger question here. You need to protect YOUR assets ASAP. I would be very concerned that he's locking you out of the accounts. Where did the profits from your townhome and car sales end up? If you paid off HIS debt acquired before your marriage and now he's not letting you control the money, I would consider that quite unfair and grounds for a major battle.

Does he always unilaterally make all of the decisions? Has he always been so petulant and unsupportive?

your husband sounds like an a**hole.

Dogs are way better than husbands anyway.

I have both, and the dog is always affectionate, always comes when I call him, and never says an unkind word. He's the best dog in the whole world. My husband isn't a bad guy, but he's no dog. :)

but a good dog is hard to find!

My first husband started to issue an ultimatum to me about "it's that dog or me" ... I stopped him in mid-sentence and said "don't go there, because you will not like who I choose!"

I had that dog for several more years after the divorce!

and tell him it's time for a trial separation. Or at least he can move in with someone else or a hotel for a while until he cools off. Yes, marriage counseling would be a good idea.

Sorry you lost your dog. Mine was hit by a car after a snowstorm in 1988 -- "Spice" was a sweet little blonde cocker spaniel. My husband I had to attend a company meeting and drove from Boston to New Jersey in tears much of the time. We still miss her years later and decided to not have another dog because she can never be replaced.

Do you have kids? Home school? I think that question is important before I could offer advice. Certainly you both need counseling. I would say, if you see a divorce coming, you should look into how you will support yourself without him. Otherwise, you are participating willingly in your own demise.

but when he changed the password I went directly to the bank and opened my own account and changed my direct deposit.

I think he wanted to get his own account because he is due for a really big bonus this year and now he can make sure I have no access. We now have separate accounts and I guess will work out who pays for what. But him telling me I could not buy anything for one year to show I had the same goal as him just floored me.

We are not in dire straights. We make all of monthly bills on time and actually have great credit. Funny thing is my credit score is actually higher than his because the revolving credit is in his name.

considering my own finances in an attempt to be fair. I went to a therapist during my impending breakup and if it were not for her stern advice, I would probably have given him my interest in our home just to get out of his life and start my own as quickly as possible. He was also extremely selfish and controlling in many ways. She convinced me, unfortunately, that it was either him or me. I didn't owe him a thing. And it was my right to have my share of what we had done together.
And no matter what he thought, I had to take care of myself. I hope you will soon find happiness.:hug:

If you make 40% of the combined income and he makes 60%, you pay for 40% of the household expenses. (You also get your TH investment + 40% of equity if/when you sell the house.) Reverse is true, too.

Are you a community property state? You're entitled to half that bonus unless you have a pre-nup.

Something else is going on; my father did this kind of thing when he was guilty about something else (usually another woman; he had a very nasty case of roman hands and russian fingers.) . He justified his guilt by making my mother be the bad cop.

Counseling might work, but this type of self-affirmation and justification is insidious. Just start looking at the bills and being careful.

Most importantly, if there are any accounts that your name is attached to that he ends up responsible for, please call the account holders and get your name removed. Protect yourself and your good credit.

Pcat

Children get allowances, adults support themselves.

CoDA is short for Codependents Anonymous. Please don't take this badly but I think they could help you, not him, you.

finances. He is a CMA (like a CPA but management accountant) and he just always handled the finances.

My check went into a joint account, he paid the bills, I got my spending money weekly. If there was something out of the ordinary that I needed extra money for, like going to the hair salon, I would let him know I needed extra money.

I realize now how wrong that was.

When he changed the password on the joint account, I opened my own account and changed my direct deposit.

He is either mentally ill or sliding headlong into being an abuser.

Get out NOW.

A similar situation is going on within my family. Husband pulled similar shit on sister. Turned out he was building a case to blame her when he bailed from the marriage to get back with his high school girlfriend (who is also married, have no idea what her bailout plan is).

He let some joint accounts close by not paying monthly fees, and we think he forged her consent to close out other joint accounts. He made up a bullshit reason to sell their beautiful house and I am pretty sure that he has piles of dough hidden.

My advice is to get out now while you still can put your finger on where the money is, and fight it in court. Too late for counseling.

(and good luck, sweetie... if your husband is half the sicko that my ex bro in law is, you're going to need it.) :hug:

and perpetuate.

It's just a marriage that didn't work out. It's only money and physical things. You can walk out the door with nothing and start over. It wouldn't be that hard.

take an ultimatum like he is giving me. If he is willing to go to joint counseling I will see what comes of that.

asshole and he's NOT GOING TO CHANGE.

Why prolong the inevitable?

Finish this. Why maintain ANY more misery?

He is NOT GOING TO CHANGE.

That's what we call "stinkin' thinkin'" in the twelve step biz.

He has some great qualities. Just all of a sudden this money thing has come up, so I need to find out what is really going on.

for a good divorce lawyer. I would never put up with any abuse from men. That's why I was only married once and then divorced. I had many relationships, but the moment they started giving me any shit, I ended it.

Your husband looks like HE is preparing to leave. The finance issues and going his own way (to his family, naturally) on important holidays are not, not, not good indicators of someone who wants to work on their marriage.

And as others have pointed out, he's way too over-controlling and that verges on abuse, if it hasn't gotten there alreay.

Don't just vent here...talk to your parents, see a lawyer, talk to a counselor -- not about saving your marriage, but about saving yourself.

Not necessarily a divorce lawyer, but one who can help you protect your own interests. That said, if you're to the point at referring to hubby as "asshole", it might be time to reassess your entire relationship.

See a lawyer, even if you're not thinking about divorce. He or she can at least help you record your joint assets and keep your husband from hiding any.

When I get paid, he takes the money, then hands me ten or twenty bucks to live on. I make more money than him, but am not allowed to spend a dime without his permission. He spends on whatever he wants (mostly car modifications that aren't necessary, just something that he wants). He has a credit card that is solely in his name, and he won't put me on as a user, but I paid it every month. My credit is worse than his because he ruined it, but his mom has helped him rebuild his. No one helps me, my parents just aren't able. When I raise the issue of how dependant he is on his mom (he's 35), he tells me that I'm jealous because my parents can't do what his mom does. No dude, I was raised to stand on my own two feet, not leech. I've opened a savings account that he doesn't know about. I do paid to read e-mails and online surveys, and all of that money (not a lot, but hey!) goes into my account. I'm snaking money wherever I can because I'm sick of being treated like a two year old.

What would happen if you refused to hand over your paycheck? You don't HAVE TO you know. This isn't the nineteenth century.

If you're afraid to find out what would happen if you didn't hand over the money, then you're in an abusive situation. Start now and put your whole paycheck in that secret bank account. If he reacts violently, get the hell out. Maybe line up a place to stay first.

No relationship is worth being abused.

I got out of one seemingly "perfect" relationship because the man started throwing things at me when he was angry, once throwing so hard that he broke a plastic bowl against the wall. I realized it would be only matter of time before he threw me against the wall, so I left.

I have seen women physically and emotionally abused and men emotionally abused by the spouses who supposedly "love" them. It boggles my mind.

I don't have unlimited resources to just up and leave, and I have two children to consider. One of them has Asperger's Syndrome, and any change in his delicate little routine causes major problems for him.

As for the paycheck issue, if I don't give it to him, he searches my purse, my person, my vehicle, ransacks the house, you name name it, until he finds it.

He is very psychologically abusive, and I know this. I cannot just pick up and go, I have to make arrangements.

If your mind is boggled by the abuse cycle, then maybe that's because you were never in it deep enough to know how hard it can be to leave.

My husband has made comments that no other man wiill raise his children, that he will not allow a divorce (yes, I know that he can't stop one). We have split before, he followed me around and pestered me to take him back until I couldn't take it anymore and just gave in. Yes, I know about restraining orders. I don't have a solid family support system to lean on, so I'm winging it.

between my spouse and I will upset him.

How is he relating to this situation?

Hubby was threatening to leave in the middle of the night and take the kids with him. He eventually calmed down, I missed a day of work from being up all night. He's bi-polar, but refuses meds, never a dull moment. He did tell me that he was contemplating suicide. Great. Well, the next day, while I'm at work, he tells our son that he almost left in the middle of the night with the kids. I had no idea this conversation had taken place. Son, in the middle of a meltdown because I wouldn't let him do something that he wanted to do (I have no idea what anymore) says that he wishes that daddy would take him and sister away because I'm mean. I looked at him, shocked. He says "That's right, daddy was going to take us away, and you don't even care." I had to explain to him that I DO care, that I spent all night convincing daddy not to take them.

I really try to keep the problems between us from coming to a head in front of the kids, then he goes and gives them a completely skewed story.

All in all, my Aspie is doing well though. For the first time, he hasn't been sent to the office once at school.

you chose for you and your children, an existence with a huge shit who sounds like he may have 'Family Annihilator' tendencies ("My husband has made comments that no other man will raise his children, that he will not allow a divorce...")

Listen, if you DO decide that this is no longer your choice of lifestyle and is totally unfair to your kids (which it is-they are being abused and terrorised if you are)-please get professional help when leaving this POS. He can "not allow a divorce" by a tried and true method many of these abusive assholes have done in the past-spousal murder. He CAN see to it that "no other man will raise his children" by killing them too. Happens. All. The. Time.

If you DO decide to leave, know that that is the most dangerous time for you and the kids. That is why it needs to be planned out. By people who can get you away.

Good Luck. I hope sometime soon you realise that this is no way to live. Until you acknowledge that this is your choice, as long as you can find reasons to stay, as long as you can justify what is being done to you AND your kids-you will never be free. and YOU are making that choice, and are responsible for it.

things were not at all like this. I think that the unmedicated bi-polar condition contributes a lot to his problems, as well as his mother, who thinks he walks on water.

I'm not an idiot. I know the progression. I was raised in a physically abusive (and yes, fundie!) home. I swore that I would never be so dependant on a man (like my mom) that I would have to stay in a physically abusive relationship. Well, I'm not in a physically abusive relationship. I have found myself, however, smack in the middle of a psychologically abusive relationship. Believe me, the terror is the same, except that there are no marks for others to see. You can't call the cops and tell them that you are being psychologically abused and have the accused removed from your home. Do I think he's capable of a total lid flipping when I leave? You betcha! That's why everything has to be in place before I do it.

Yeah, I earn more than him, but that's really not saying a lot. His chosen calling is to be a pizza guy, no shit. I called legal aid, I don't qualify, I make too much. I absolutely must have financial things in place so that my children and I can survive.

And I don't think you are an idiot. It takes a lot of intellegence and cunning to keep ahead of people like your husband is. I'm sorry life has been hard for you and the kids.

I am glad you are plotting your escape. Best of luck to you.

My back got arched when I was told that I need to grow a spine though (I know that wasn't you Miss Kitty).

My niece is married to an unmedicated bi-polar also. Right now they're going through the process of a divorce, and it is NASTY because of him, and what he's doing to her and the kids.

She has things better, though, because her kids are healthy (even though now they may have some real mental problems) and she has a LOT of support from her family. She has support of her employer, also, so that helps her out a lot.

Definitely, make your plans, and if he is absolutely against getting help for himself, do leave. It won't be easy, and it'll take guts, but for your own sake, it should happen.

Hang in there, and best of luck!!

And you owe it to your children to get OUT of that horrible relationship. You out-earn him, and you allow him to TAKE all of your money? That is the most insane thing I've ever heard.

Make whatever arrangements you feel you need to make, but you need to get out of that situation immediately.

Start with Al-Anon, open meetings. Explain the situation and ask if they know of any groups for women with either mentally ill husbands or abusive husbands, whichever. And ask if you can go to open Al-Anon meetings until you find a different group. They will welcome you with open arms, I guarantee you, and they will not pressure you to make any changes until you're ready. But they will help you take control of your life, with or without your husband. GO!!!

They gave me the support to save my life. Note, they didn't save my life, that's my job, but they supported me emotionally until I was able to save my life.

The have a presence online and I remember that they had local chapter info.

just kidding, feds...

PrimaCord is an explosive used to detonate other explosives.

The idea being you wrap 4 feet of it around the neck of the "problem" and detonate it... problem solved!

I figured it had to be something dastardly...just wasn't sure what exactly.

and then keep the access (checks, MAC) at work?

The statements go to my mom's house, and so far she's managed not to leak the information (she tends to get diarrhea of the mouth), I'm amazed. No way can he know I have the account...the ugliness would definitely escalate.

until people realise IT'S THE CHOICE THEY MAKE, they'll find reasons to stay, and there's no amount of reason or logic spread out on the path in front of them that will make them see otherwise. They choose victimhood for themselves. And for any children they may have as well.

:)

I am laying the ground to get out.

You do not choose to be terrorized and battered. But by the time they get around to leaving marks, you've been cut off from friends, family and any way of finding information. (You can bet that if he knew she was posting here, the computer would go) You've been told so often that you're nothing, you're stupid and ugly and he doesn't know why he even sticks around because you aren't worth anything, and you've never heard anything to the contrary, that you have absolutely no confidence in yourself or your ability to even survive.

And you believe, oh yes you believe with all your being, that when he says he'll never let you or 'what belongs to him' go, that he will definitely make that happen. You know you will die.

so it's not 'bullshit', as you so eloquently put it.

By choosing to let him get away with shit from the first time, you are contributing to the problem, whether or not you recognise it. You ARE making a choice, to say, for example, "That's ok. He promised he wouldn't hit me again" or "He was angry. That's why he talked to me in an extremely rude way." By choosing to stay after each event, you are CHOOSING to give tacit approval to this kind of behaviour-in effect, contributing to your own enslavement.

Before the beating starts, there are all sorts of warning signs that we are programmed to ignore or accept.

every justification for accepting that kind of behaviour is a choice. If you can choose to leave (as many have after 'taking it' for ages) you choose not to leave.

Don't think I DON'T know what I'm talking about here. Just because I choose not to share certain stories about MY life on a public board, doesn't mean I'm a bullshitter.

It IS a CHOICE.

"Don't think I DON'T know what I'm talking about here. Just because I choose not to share certain stories about MY life on a public board, doesn't mean I'm a bullshitter"


OK, you were in a situation, and you got out of it. I'm thrilled for you. I would think that you would have more compassion for other women who are in these situations and trying to get out. I'm not sitting around saying "poor me", I'm doing something about it, but it's not instant.

I am telling the truth. You make choices and every choice you make shapes the life you have.

If you are unable to grasp that, it is not my problem.

And I don't expect it to be instant. I think my comments throughout this thread have demonstrated that.

So don't accuse me of not being compassionate enough, because I don't show my compassion in a manner with which you are familiar.
As for "...Just because I choose not to share certain stories..." You are making assumptions about me too. Don't assume you know something about me by what I have not said.

I show Aspie tendencies, so maybe I didn't pick up on the compassion you were exhibiting (wouldn't be the first time I took something wrong).

I'm not assuming to know anything about you, I was just basing my comments on your comments as far as that was concerned.

because there is no tone of voice or facial cues (which I understand Aspies have trouble with anyway) I totally support your efforts to get away. I see people work very hard to change situations they think are impossible to change. For many, discovering they have a choice in the matter is the turning point.

My 'Idea' of compassion is telling the truth. I am very happy :) you are making the choice to leave a guy who needs to be left.

:hi:

True, my Aspie kiddo couldn't pick up on voice or facial cues if his life depended on it, but we're working on that. It's kinda funny...I don't have an Aspie diagnosis, but all of this work with him helps me out too.


I can't help but think that I got into the siutation I'm in now because of what I went through as a kid. It's like there was a mentality that as long as it wasn't physical it was all cool. I got away from the beating at 14, begged my grandmother to put me in counseling/therapy, you name it. I was told "We solve our problems within the family". Yeah, that's why nobody in this family talks to each other. My kids see a therapist weekly, and sometimes I can sqeak a few minutes with her, but she's really there for them. When my insurance kicks up, I'm getting one of my own.

After our son was born, I felt like a blimp, and he did nothing to make me feel any better. (I gained 23 pounds and delivered an almost nine pound baby.) I've always been very weight insane, and he played it to death. My butt was too big, my thighs were huge, my boobs too small, you name it. I believed. I believed for a long time. I was told that if I did leave him I'd never find anyone else because I was such a loser. I'm the stupid one, but he can't hold a job. Of course, anything that happens to him in a negative manner is my fault, but all the good stuff is directly related to something he did, or his mom did. (No one treats him like his mommy) If he gets fired because he chose not to go to work or bother to call in, that's my fault. I used to call in for him and tell him that he was too sick to get to the phone. The first time I refused, I was told that it would be my fault if he got fired. Whatever. He spent three years without a job. He wasn't looking for one...just didn't care. He sleeps fifteen hours a day when he's in depressed mode...stays up for two or three days straight when manic. I have learned the signs of the cycling, and have learned when to just not interact with him at all. He knows that he needs meds, but refuses to take a "happy pill" because everything that's wrong with him is my fault. I used to think I was the worst wife in the whole world.

I don't think that anymore. I have told him that if he can't say something positive about my appearance, he should shut up. I'm not a zero anymore, and I won't be. I'm 32, 5'6, and I weigh 115 pounds. I'm not fat. Sometimes I avoid walking past a mirror because I might see something that I don't like, but I don't believe his hype anymore.

I don't call into his job for him. If he gets fired, fuck it, he gets fired. Now that he's working again, he doesn't even think he's supposed to take out the trash. I work eight hours a day, go home, supervise homeowrk for two kids, cook dinner, and do whatever else needs to be done around the house. He'll mow the grass when the landlord threatens to fine us if it's not mowed in 24 hours.

If I'm lucky, I get 4 or 5 hours of sleep a night before the insanity begins again. Oh, and he sleeps on the couch, his choice. Has for a while now (pretty much ever since I told him to quit calling me fat and ugly). He negotiates with hinself, and leaves me alone, fine by me.

Over the summer, he and his mom went to visit relatives in another state. While there, he looked up an old girlfriend, went out to dinner, who knows what else. He came back comparing me to her. (How much better SHE is than me). I told him to shut up or go back there, that I wasn't having this. Mr. Unemployed got a job. I have phone bills that show he made short calls to her...I'm guessing to have her call him back. Yep, I have the bills, and I reverse looked up the numbers to see who they belonged to. Mr. I don't want a cell phone now has one. He keeps it in his car, nowhere near my sight (I don't have a key to his car, but he has a key to mine). I wish he would go, but I feel for her.

It takes time to build up the money and the guts to get out of something like this. I have the guts, I'm working on the money.

you are thanking china cat for saying it's not a choice, you are a victim and can't do anything about it.

It is A CHOICE. Stay or Go. Make a plan or not. Accept mistreatment or leave it behind.

china cat called bullshit on me for pointing out this FACT. Calling bullshit on a fact doesn't change it.
choice choice choice. You are now choosing to leave and planning it, sticking money aside-do you want to give the credit for this brave move to someone else?

Be consistent.

I made the decision, no question.

What china cat and I are saying is that when you are in the cycle of abuse, you feel like you can't leave. You feel trapped. You feel scared. You feel hopeless. You have been mentally beaten down to nothing. Leaving is scary, particularly when he's said things that lead you to believe that you might pay for it with your life.

CHOICE. If you take credit for the leaving, who's the credit go to for the staying? Same person.

You two are hyping up the victim stance. I've heard the story over and over again.

Great You are leaving! Good luck, as I've said before.

You don't FEEL like you have a choice. The coice may be there, but the doors seem closed for anyu number of reasons.

We're not "hyping up the victim stance". I think we're trying to help other people understand what it's like to be in a situation like this.

Please see my other post about a deep breath.

And feeling one does not have a choice-does take the privilege of choice away. But MANY choices are made to get oneself to a point where the feeling of not having a choice comes into existence. It's generally not an overnight thing. It's allowing oneself to be conditioned. That's all.

And I saw your other post. To tell you the truth, I am not at a point that I NEED to take a deep breath here; I am not worked up over anything. It's just an internet chat thinger, and really, rarely worthy of getting worked up about :D

I was sitting here typing like a mad woman, all bent out of shape. The grow a spine thing really riled me up.

I'm sorry you were riled. I can see that sometimes on the board. Really. Good Luck. I think you could use some. I hope next year, this time, you are able to chat from the warmth and comfort of your happily single-parent home. :)

:hi:

I do most of my posting from work because of the faster connection. At home I get on when he's at work, but the dial up is SO SLOW. But yes, this time next year, I should definitely not be in the predicament I'm in now.

That the hardest part was making it up as she went along. If someone could have given her a list of the actual steps like A) store changes of clothing at a friends house or work, B) visit police and find out about shelters, etc. she would have left much sooner.

nothing to see here. move along now.

I'll delete the content of my previous post and redirect appropriately.

And yes, I did read all of your posts, and I'm glad that you clarified things.

I posted to the wrong (same post) 3 times the other day. D'oh! :)

Telling someone to "grow a spine" is abusive, in itself.

My future husband hands over every cent he makes (willingly) and it's my job to take care of the bills and savings. I don't work because I'm in college and he supports me completely. I could never imagine being in your situation. It would be ignorant to tell you to leave him, but I hope you can be happy one day.

so he can steal your money?

You can live in a residential hotel for a couple months while you save your money for an apartment.

It's not that big a deal.

In order to successfully leave someone who is CRAZY and probably willing to murder the kids rather than let them go, it takes time and planning and cold calculation.

Do you honestly think that a residential hotel is the answer?

i can't just pick up and move anywhere. I really can't move to a residential hotel...Jiminy Crickets! Not because I have such a high standard of living...we've lived in some real shitholes before, and the place we live in now is about a step and a half from being one. I have to have things lined up. He's threatened that he will take the kids, and that mommy dearest will supply the lawyer. Maybe she will, maybe not. No, I can't ask her...She'll tell me what she figures I want to hear, then run off and tell him that I asked her. I have to have an environment that is suitable for the kids to be in or I will have very little ground to stand on. I guarantee that when it happens, he will go home to mommy because he can't afford to live on his own. Then the argument will be that the children can live with him at her house (giant house, plenty of bedrooms), which would be better than a motel.

Even if your husband is the sole wage-earner in your household, you still share in the decision-making process to determine what is necessary and what is not.

And your husband has every right to be a complete asshole about all of this and to receive that ass-kicking that he so deserves from you.

Seriously, get some councelling soon, together or alone, and regardless let him know you won't take that kind of shit any more.

Best of luck to you!

Is he a Republican?

Sounds like typical Republican behavior...

than two parties. He has always voted democrat otherwise, or at least tells me he has. But actually some of his way of thinking (welfare, social security) is very Republican, yet he is such an environmentalist that I guess he could be considered a conservative democrat? I don't know.

Do you still love him? If so, go for marriage counseling...

Do you have kids? If not, start getting ready to separate or divorce on your own terms.
If I were you I would get a safe deposit box for valuable papers and I would slowly start to pry away from him without him noticing.

As for him controling the money...No Way...No How...

If you are working full-time then I would talk to your employer and see if they can help you out...there was a woman in our office that was in an abusive relationship. The company played along with a ruse that they had cut her pay (part of cutbacks...blah blah...) but in reality what they did was issue her paycheck in the form of two checks...one check went into a savings account while she was able to to take the other one home...

When she had enough saved ...she bolted...the company even helped her with that...relocating her to a Texas office where he didn't even know where she was...today she is happier, remarried and the mother of a beautiful little boy...

She left everything behind when she bolted...all her clothes, furniture...CD's..everything....

We have split the money. I opened my own account and my direct deposit goes there now. My mother is constantly giving advice about saving and preparing just in case. She always says hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

I have great parents so I would have support financially and otherwise if it came down to a separation. Right now my head is spinning because all this seemed to come out of blue and right before the holidays, and while dealing with my dog's illness and eventually having to put him to sleep.

Have you REALLY though about why the sudden change?
I think he's getting ready to rip you off, while at the same time, painting you as the bad guy, not only to the outside world, but to himself (to allay his own guilt) and you as well-so you'll see the 'wisdom' in his ways, and do what he wants. This is a scary kind of conditioning, because you don't know that it's happening, and you end up acquiesing, questioning yourself, your resolve, your actions.

So here's my bullshit way of NOT giving you advice-Framing it as in "What I would do."

If I were you, I would consult the most effective divorce atty in your area post haste.

Also I'd get all my papers from before the marriage and show how much debt I'd not had. I'd show him the amount of equity from my TH that went into purchasing the current place. I'd challenge him to do the same.

I'd order up a Credit Bureau Report. (You may be in a community property state, which would make his CBR open to you as well.) I'd find out if he is hiding assets, has a card I don't know about, etc.
I might even consider a PI, to see if anyONE outside your exclusive relationship is making it an unbeknownst-to-you a not-so-exclusive relationship.

So that's what I would do or think about or look into.


I am sorry you lost your dog. Sadder still, is the one person you should be able to count on is not stepping up to the plate he VOWED he would step up to when you two exchanged vows. So that makes him a liar and a promise breaker.

He's a huge shit. I probably would not waste time or money (that would please his fascist ass) on counseling. I would be planning my getaway-and see janesez's thread about "He's really not in to you"

Good luck sweetie!
:hi:

work. That was after he'd tried to explain away the condoms in the sock drawer. (She had an IUD).

She found out that he had cleared out the bank accounts and charged things like women's jewelry and fancy lingerie to their joint credit cards--and none of it had been for her.

Do not rule out the possibility that he has someone on the side. By acting like a creep, he hopes to infuriate you so that you can be the "wife from hell who doesn't understand him."

I'm not married, but my folks are and they have a loving relationship.

From early on in the marriage it was decided that my mom had the better money sense of the two so she was in charge of financial matters. She takes care of all the bill paying and savings accounts. Both of my parents work. When they get their paychecks almost all of it goes into the bank and they each keep out some money for expenses that they might incur throughout the week. When one decides that they want to spend some money on a large expense they kick it around with each other for a while and then decide on the best course of action. They are debt free except for their house and they have everything they need and generally everything they want within reason. There are no arguments over money.

I don't know if there's anything you can do to save your marriage unless you want to continue to be a slave to him. If you decide to get out make sure you have a lawyer and a place to stay.

he'll just find a way to punish you for the cost of the counseling & never accept a counselor that doesn't support his side.

unless you're prepared to spend the rest of your life as his victim, get out while you still can.

just my view, others will differ, no dowt. i admit i'm a cynic, but this 1 sounds like there's WAY too much anger going on for reconciliation.

After reading the above posts the last thing I want to do is give advice...just hugs :hugs: and well wishes.

And venting on DU helps because it is great to get the opinions of others.

it IS triangulating. Triangulating is using a third party to vent to so that you don't actually have to confront the person with whom you actually have the problem.

So venting is okay if you are also talking with your husband about this, not so good if you are using us as the substitute.

Look into his accounts, see if he has an hidden assets or a girlfriend.

Probably wouldn't be too costly but nice to have information.

it totally sapped me of my strength, my energy, my courage and left me stripped of anything that had made me, well, me. It took me years to recover from it. In fact, I have not been in a serious relationship since then (almost 5 years to the day now that I finally came to my senses and left). Nothing was ever his fault. Everything was mine. I did all the heavy-lifting in the relationship, everything was always on his terms. He put himself first and expected me to do the same, and I was stupid enough to do it too for way too long.

Screw the counseling--get yourself a damned good attorney (who will no doubt be able to hook you up with a good private investigator). I bet you he's either hiding away $$$$$ or a girlfriend (or both) somewhere. It's pretty clear to me from what you've told us that he's trying to portray himself as a victim here and to make you take the fall for the end of the relationship which seems to be looming rather large on the horizon right now. Edit: Get the counseling for yourself after you give this ass the boot!

The end came when he gave me one of these ultimatums too--and something within me found the courage to stand up to him and say, "No". Guess what I found out? He was already dating someone else--who, by the way, ended up having a nervous breakdown after three years with Mr. Not-So-Wonderful.

Just our of curiosity--what do your family & friends think of this guy?

VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION. What sort of feedback have you been getting in your own inner circle. I WISH I had listened to those who love me...

This guy sounds psycho. See a lawyer.

I haven't been following your entire story, but from the one above, it sounds like neither of you are really communicating with the other. That's the key to making it work.

So ask yourself: Do YOU want to make it work? Would you feel differently about him if he spoke to you ahead of time, before taking action? Can you express to him why you are upset?

If you decide NO, then you need to tell him that. If you decide YES, then you need to find out what HE wants - to work on it, or to leave. This is a very serious time for both of you, and you both need to decide if you are committed enough to really work together to change your current situation.

One final observation: the loss of your dog has obviously hurt you a great deal. Did your hubby love the dog, too? Was he jealous of the dog? (seriously, that can be a problem!). And regardless of what he feels/felt about the dog, it is obvious that you are still in grief.

Grief will make people do very strange things...and sometimes, grief is a catalyst that sets things in motion (which probably would have occurred anyways).

If you don't want to try "counseling" (many people are afraid of that word), then maybe consulting with a pastor or a mutually-trusted friend would be a good first step.

Good luck, and my sympathies on your loss.

my grief over my dog. I had the dog before I met my husband and I do think there was some jealousy but he did show compassion after I had the dog put to sleep.

He said he did not realize Sonic (my dog) was so bad off. But geez wasn't he paying attention to what was right in front of his eyes? Maybe the vet bills made him mad, but he knew how much that dog meant to me and I at least wanted to see if anything could be done for him but I did make the decision not to put Sonic through any invasive surgery just to try to keep him around for my benefit. I was choosing not to be selfish.

Now that my grieving is better, believe me the talking will begin. Sometimes I think he used Sonic's illness and death to set things in motion. Well it's moving now for sure!

(That happens in churches all the time!)

I sure hope things can improve for you, in whatever decisions you make.

Nothing you do is going to satisfy this ass. Nothing. You'll go for a year spending nothing on yourself and at the end of the year you'll be isolated and feel like a prisoner and he'll still say everything is your fault and he's getting out while the getting is good.

Grieve for the dog. He was better for you than this man ever will be.

(What he's doing carries all the hallmarks of a potential physical abuser. It usually starts out like this with control, emotional and verbal abuse. Don't let yourself get deeper into it.)

Ok let's see.

"I came into the marriage (of 4 years) with a townhouse, a car, and my dog. I had no debt, except for mortgage and car payment. None, zilch, nada."
Was the mortgage on the Townhouse? How much was left to pay off?

"He had alot of debt. We sold my TH and he traded in my car on something else. We had a house built, small but nice on a 1.5 acres and bought furniture, landscaping, fencing, etc. So now it is MY fault we have dept."

You both are equally responsible for the debt from expenses of your house.

"He says I have doubled the amount of debt he came into the marriage with and he wants it PAID OFF now! He was right beside me on every purchase we made for the house. It is not like I've been out buying clothes, jewelry, or other things just for myself."

Perhaps you guys really do need to pay off the debt. It is possible to get to deep in the hole to get back out. What are his spending habits?

for that long. It went toward our new house. He had a large amount of revolving debt and I had none.

When we decided to buy a house all expenses involved are definitely both of ours, but now he makes it sound like I was the one that had to have furniture, and I was the one that wanted to landscape. Yet he was picking out the furniture and doing the landscaping with me so, yes WE are both responsible.

Of course we need to pay off any debt. And we do. But all of a sudden he wants every extra cent to go toward the debt. No buying anything that is NOT A NECESSITY.

Okay so I go to work, I come home, I eat, sleep, get up and go to work. No more hobbies, like gardening or bird watching. What kind of life is that?

When he wants something he buys it, when he wants to go somewhere he does. I do not make him account for every penny.

if both of you do the same thing it won't require such draconian measures

If you no longer have credit in just your name,
I suggest you get it now. Just a Visa or MC
will do. Charge a very small amount on it every
month, like $10.00 on gas, and pay it off completely
without fail, every single month.

Forgive me, if I am getting to personal here, but it
sounds to me like you are being set up here for him
to take a hike after the bills are paid down.
You brought more to this marriage than he did, yet he
will most likely walk away with half.

I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your pet. I know
how devastating that can be. Good luck to you.

I too have wondered what happens after this year of no spending if I were to agree to it. Would he end up walking out anyway?

Find out your rights to get access to all accounts. My bank would not change passwords on joint accounts without both of our consent. You need access to all financial matters.

I also agree with others that hiring a PI is a good idea. You need information and you need to get out.

about his health and perhaps something coming from that. Of course, there is the simple idea that he's tired of debt, mad about it and is taking it out on the nearest thing, you.

Be careful, keep your stuff separate. Getting out of debt is great but what then? More debt? What kind of goals and plans do you both have for now and after getting out of debt?

I am so sorry for your puppy. I was worried after I read how almost unconcerned he was for the pup. That is cold.

I agree that marriage counselling would be a good idea, and it sounds like his behavior has changed very suddenly... that alone could be cause for concern. His changing the password for all accounts is also very suspicious.

You need to have equal access to all accounts. Spending absolutely no money is unreasonable -- you should both agree on a monthly allowance that you each get to spend on yourselves.

Also, you should BOTH go over all the finances each month. Do you know what he is spending money on? Has he amassed a great deal of debt for any reason?

Has something suddenly happened that caused him to stress about money?

Back when we had cash flow problems, I would ask (not demand) that my wife not spend anything except for essentials, but that would be for a single month. She doesn't spend much, anyway.

Maybe someone already told you this but you should be very careful about protecting yourself right now. Your husband's sudden behavior changes are a sign of something. Whether it's illness (mental or otherwise), drug or alcohol abuse, or an affair, there is something going on. I'm very sorry you're going through this and I hope you can forgive me for being so blunt, but I think you should know.

The part that really got me was the whole "Here's what you need to do to keep me, but I know you won't be able to..." thing. I've seen this kind of thing at least twice before with a friend and two family members. Every time the spouse who said that was having an affair and was creating some kind of justification for ending the marriage without feeling guilty. Coupled with the password change (WTF? What does your grief over a pet have to do with it? Why would he NEED to change the password?), there are some very troubling signs there.

I'm glad you've got your own bank account and the money is going there. What I would suggest is that you get a credit card or two in your name only (if you don't already have one) and start charging all your purchases on it and paying them off every month. I know you must've had a credit "life" before your marriage if you own a townhome, but it's amazing how getting married can erase your separate financial identity if you don't work to maintain it. This could be very important if you do get divorced and your husband racks up debts with your joint accounts.

Good luck dear. Let us know how you are doing. Most of all, take care of yourself.

I hope you two can work things out.

be very wary of taking advice on an interet board.

Many people will write in things like "Dump the SOB" out of solidarity to you, without thinking whether they really know enough to make such an assessment, or else assume everybody's experience is just like the one with which they are familiar... which may not be at all applicable to you.

This is a good place to vent, however, and it looks like it's done you good there, at least.

The best advice I've seen from people was:

* get a good counsellor and go, whether or not he goes, too.
* go see a divorce lawyer, and find out what you should do to protect yourself, whether or not you split.

What you do from there is your own business, and I don't presume to be in a position to advise (or judge) beyond suggesting you get the advice of a professional.

I know I have alot to begin taking care of and believe me I will. I know DUers are showing solidarity to me and it feels good because I have had a couple of rough months. But I also know there are two sides to every story. (Actually, I have always said there are three sides: his, mine and what really happened, since perception plays a big part of communication).

Everything will work out one way or the other and I will get through it. Like I said, just the shock of it all, losing my pet, the holidays, it felt like everything crashing down at once.

Everyone's advice, condolences, thoughts, and prayers are greatly appreciated!!!

Minimus. You are due some now

:)

A kind person wants the person they love to be happy. Saying they can't buy birdseed -- or even trying to make them feel guilty for doing it -- is just sadistic. You should each have a small amount of money budgeted to spend however you want.

Do you have any really good reason for staying with someone who's not interested in your happiness?

....where one of the daughters marries a guy who insists on everything be paid 50/50. Everything has to be accounted for, itemized, split.He gets her a cat and resents her paying money for food, litter, vet. He made the money and had the power (her former boss) and never let her forget it. She's paying with her more meager salary for things that he buys that she never gets to use or is allergic to. Basically the marriage was based on her acquiescing to his power trip due to a lack of self-worth and a relationship that was quantifiable. She found her voice to say "Enough" and left the b*st*rd.

and he is unwilling to compromise--I don't think I would stay with him. But ultimately that is your decision.

before he drags you down with him. No one should have to live the way he is asking you to.

and if my husband did and said what yours has, I would do a few things:

1. Start socking away as much money as I could in my own account (I read that you do work and have your own account now). Make sure he cannot access your account.

2. Contact a marriage counselor and a divorce attorney in that order. You may not NEED the divorce attorney, but it IS nice to get a referral, talk to one, find out what would be expected in a divorce settlement, etc. I know this all sounds very calculated, but honey, what he has said and done is BAD news. I had red flags going up all over the place when I read everything you've written.

3. I am married to a FORMER control freak. He was BAD. But he also wanted desperately not to be divorced, so he went to counseling (both joint and individually) for years, he worked hard on himself and his controlling behavior and he went on antidepressants. He is a different man today, but I think the big factor is that he did not under any circumstances want to lose me. If your husband is willing to go to a counselor, either alone or with you (and if he doesn't, I suggest you go alone, anyway) then he is probably willing to at least try. I guess the point if this item is that his willingness to go to counseling is paramount. And you going, even alone, is very important. You need to be able to sort these issues out, they are not minor. If you have a clear head, you can handle whatever happens more effectively.

4. He needs a Come to Jesus meeting. You need to sit down with him and write out your points on paper in advance if you think it will help you stay on track (I had to do that with my husband, because he would twist and turn the conversation until it was no longer about him but about MY failings. And he did it every time, till I got wise to it.).

He needs to know that YOUR money will be spent by you as YOU please. You will pay the bills that are yours, he will pay his bills (split up the bills if you haven't already) and whatever you have left over is YOUR business, as you are an adult. You also need to ask him if he wants to stay married to you.

Good luck. Be strong.

Everyone is saying "leave now" and that MIGHT be the right choice but it's hard to tell on an internet board.

Maybe he's changed suddenly because he's realized how much the debt is and it's freaking him out? If so, he should be happy to go to counselling.

anyway, to Minimus - BIG HUGS and I hope things come together for you

I fear that your husband is planning to leave and take everything with him. You came with a townhouse, car, and dog. Get an attorney to be certain that you don't end up with nothing.

No one can go a year without spending any money on unnecessary items. Even the homeless occasionally buy a candy bar.

Either your husband is mentally ill or he out-and-out plans to rob you. Either way, you need to protect yourself. And don't bring a child into this situation if you can possibly prevent it.

This is abuse and control freak-ery of the highest order.

Just leave.

Sheesh, if I tried anything like that Mrs Retro would have my ass out the door before you could blink.

RL

p.s. - Is he a Promise Keeper? Sounds like it...

As someone seriously contemplating divorce, partially because of spending problems, I started reading your post hearing my own spouse's arguments, but by the end of your post the similarities had vanished.

Here's my thoughts, interwoven with my own experience. My own spouse and I have been married 18 years. She's been unfaithful in just about every way a person can be, in addition to the traditional sense of the word. I've forgiven everything, but after a while, each new incident digs up every old wound, so the forgiveness gets harder. A few years ago I quit reconciling with her, as the inevitable betrayals were just to painful to handle. Since then we have slept in separate rooms, I won't let her touch me or get close to me, and I've acted like an ass around her, mostly because--whether this justifies it or not, I'm not sure-- I'm tired of the pain that always follows the reconciliations.

Last week she called my mother and argued with her, finally convincing my mother to not come out for Christmas. My father is in poor health, and every time I see him may be the last, so this is a very big deal. They live 500 miles away.

In addition, we are also fighting over money. She makes more than me, significantly more, but I control the finances (that's my profession). The times we've let her control the money it has been disasterous, including disconnected utilities, eviction notices, and hundreds of dollars in bounced check fees. So it's a no-brainer, and she doesn't disagree. However, she has recently gone on a spending spree rivalled only by the last three Republican presidents. She has acquired more credit card debt in the last year than most people earn in a year. Before that, we had no real CC debt. It will take us years to pay it off. And though not all the spending was her fault, the majority of it was.

Anyway, that's all to set the stage for my main point. You need to figure out what the real problem is. If it's spending, and it very well may be, you can find a reasonable solution-- keeping finances separate (as of January 1st, that will be our solution, and we may even get an official divorce to do it). If there is a much deeper problem, as there is with my marriage (if you can reasonably call it a marriage), then the money is one more symptom of a lack of trust or something else. Someone above suggested he's looking for an excuse to leave, and that's possible. It could be some guilt on his part over something he's done, that makes him look for a problem he can blame you for. It may be stress from something unrelated to your relationship that is coming out in this form. It could be a lot of things that indicate a deeper relationship issue. It could even be a mental illness like depression, causing him to strike out at anything that causes stress whether it's rational or not.

So that's what you ought to figure out, and if he's so far gone he can't do it without counseling, then you should make your staying with him conditional on counseling. That's my opinion, anyway. Just one more bit of advice to frustrate and confuse you.

For the record, I've stayed so long because I'm terrified she'll get my kids, and I think that would be bad for them.

Sorry to ramble. I'm having a tough time now, and I can tell you are, too, so I just thought I'd commiserate in front of 60,000 of my closest friends. :-)

My heart went out to you when I read that. Sounds like you are married to my mother, ug.

My sympathies. And if I could, I'd send HUGE strength through your monitor directly to you to deal with all this. Hang in there, it's go to get better, right?

:hug:

May you find happiness again.

when a relationship brings you more heartache than joy.... and you know you've done all you can do to make it work, then it's time to get out.

Especially when you are the father in a conservative state that gives custody to the mother no matter what. I'm not the type who can leave my kids just so I can have a romantic life again. Between romance and them, it's an easy choice. Not fun, but easy.

a great guy. We'll line up to meet you! (just for the record, I'm fiscally responsible, besides being cute!)

Just wanted to wish you well. I hope you and the Mrs. work things out to a satisfactory conclusion (whatever that may be).

Thanks.

I wouldn't treat my dog the way this man is treating you, in fact I'd treat my dog a hell of a lot better. Asshole is an understatement.

Who the hell is he to tell you what to do with your money, your time, your life, without your express agreement and voluntary consent?? Making you chose between him and your family because he feels uncomfortable? This man deserves to come home a restraining order and the locks changed with all his belongings on the sidewalk!

I'm by nature pretty darned frugal- maybe too much so, but really, I'm very responsible when it comes to bills and priorities. I was either at home (with kids) or working part-time for many years (a mutual decision because neither of us felt comfortable with babies in daycare). I was never irresponsible with money largely because of my nature and also because, with one income, you can't be. He's different though. He tends to be buy stuff that makes him happy first, then take care of the bills. It lead to massive debt. I had no say either since "he earned it, not me", but my credit is still getting rebuilt too now and I don't like it. Basically, he was a control freak in another way. A few years back that was taken care of, but since then I've handled all the money around here and things are good. We're splitting up presently and very soon are going to separate all money. I'm very anxious to separate the money because frankly, I can't deal with his style of dealing with it and since I'm now earning my own, I'd rather keep it as my own.

I will never allow myself to be a financially vulnerable position again. I put up with too much other bullshit because of that unfortunately. If I'm ever in another serious relationship, I'll earn my way and he'll earn his with as little intermingling as possible.

edit: I should say though, we are handling this far more amicably than I thought possible. For that, I'm grateful. Behind the scenes deceptions should play no part in ending a relationship and it sounds like that's what's going on in your case.

That's what it sounds like to me. He's trying to get the finances, debts in order. He's broken away from you emotionally (vis a vis your dog crisis and Christmas). He no longer cares about compromising.

Mark my words. This guy has a plan, and it doesn't include you. Be prepared, like every good Girl Scout. Make sure the house and your vehicles are in BOTH of your names (if not...get them changed). Do you make more $$ than him? If so, it's time for separate checking accounts. If not, no separate accounts....but be on the lookout, since he no doubt WILL be getting a separate account, possibly w/o telling you.

There's a storm a brewin'. It's best to be prepared. Forewarned is forearmed, they say.

She was in denial about it for MONTHS as I watched the signs pile up from a concerned distance. Here's how she found out: she was flat on her back--totally incapacitated--after major surgery. He wakes her up at 6 a.m. on her second day home from the hospital, hands her a letter (in which he details his desires to lead an exciting bachelor life), and leaves. He'd wiped out their bank accounts and took all the credit cards.

He was a navy officer at the time, and the navy--which likes to paint itself as very protective of its families--didn't do shit to help my sister, and handed her an eviction notice (they lived in base housing) a couple of days after my ex-brother-in-law left.

Hell is too good for some people, including my ex-BIL. It sounds like you're being set up for something similar.

I really believe that you never know what someone is really like until you've seen him/her go through a divorce.

When my ex and I were going through our divorce, we were both hurting a lot and yet, we took pains not to take advantage of each other and for the next year or two, we didn't speak to one another even once. But now, we end up calling each other about once a year and spending hours on the phone catching up. I love that man! I never, ever want to be married to him again (we aren't our best people when together though we were together for 16 years).

So, I guess, based on what you said, that while we weren't good for each other, we are both good people.

When I hear the horror stories, I am so grateful for how my marriage ended.

I didn't recognize the mean guy my husband became when going through our divorce. And the same thing is happening to one of my sisters - she even used the same terminology that I had: It's like he's not even the same person; who is he?

I've heard that over and over from friends over the years.

You were very lucky!

you are out of your mind to stay with such an asshole.

sunk costs are sunk. get out now while you still have a modicum of your sanity and self respect.

Isn't being a "control freak" kind of an illness?

If you're going to talk with him about this, or go into counseling, I'd suggest emphasizing your concern for him. He'll only be defensive if you attack his personality. Since he currently seems to feel that your life together is all about him, you'll need to approach the problem from that angle if he's going to do anything about it.

At the same time, protect yourself...squirrel your money away. Don't give up those things that give you pleasure, because dammit, pleasure is a necessity regardless of how poor someone is. You might meet him part way, if you aren't already, by purchasing your pleasure items on sale. If you're going to do this though, your husband should be more careful about his spending habits, and purchase not-quite-so-top-of-the-line goods or wait for them to go on sale.

I agree with the other posters who suggest that you consult a divorce lawyer. It can't hurt to be prepared.

I'm so sorry about your dog...:hug:

I would never encourage divorce except in violent situtations,but...You guys need some help,FAST.

I would have exploded at the guy,but, maybe a councelor can help you both.


Best wishes:hug:

hubby is an asshole.

to deprive myself of pleasures for a partner who seemed so bent on ending the partnership. Not that I have anything close to the long, sordid details from both sides, but I think were I you, I'd find an excellent lawyer, put down a retainer and spend an afternoon or two discussing exactly what you've relayed and inquire about protecting yourself and your remaining assets for what seems to be the direction of your husband's thoughts.

In fact, you are in process of being had. Betchya anything he's got a lover on the side but he wants the break up of your marriage to be your fault. If this really transpired the way you say it did, he is a waste of time. Forget the marriage counseling, get personal counseling, go to CoDA and kick the Bastidge out.

I'm really sorry about your dog, hon. That's really hard. I went through it last year. Not the asshole husband, the having to put my beloved dog to sleep.

There is obviously a good side to this man for you to be in love for 4 years. I'm hoping for the relationship's sake that he realize what he is doing on focus on being your friend instead of an overprotective controlling dad. We all make big mistakes and act like an a** sometimes, hopefully this isn't a re-occuring thing. In that case find someone you deserve and who deserves you.

It makes me afraid, VERY AFRAID, to start dating again.
To both of you, I will say this:
When thinking things through, if you have doubts about whether you can live without him, please, please be assured that you can. I was in an 8 1/2 year live-in relationship that ended in April. (BTW, we didn't marry on account of his baggage - had a difficult upbringing w/ stepparents, etc.) There weren't abuse issues but there was conflict. Point is, in the last 2 years I knew deep down that the relationship was doomed, but I was afraid to end things.
But since I have been on my own, I have had more serenity, peace, and comfort in myself. Life got better. My stress level declined dramatically.
My hope is that you can find that understanding in yourselves as well.
I wish you both all the best!

otherwise try and get on the wife swapping show - it seems to have worked to open the eyes of some of the more nasty spouses.

The second parts a joke but I'm very serious about seeking out the help from your local shelter. If you are afraid he'll find out because he knows someone there try the one in a nearby town. The counselors will help you get yourself set up for your get away.

Both of my son's have Nonverbal Learning Disorder (NLD) and the change along with a crazed parent that will torture them to get to their ex would ruin their lives. But staying an subjecting them to lessor abuse isn't working for them either. If you can get your kids into see a neuro-psychologist to try and do some preventative work for when you can get away do it.

I concur with those suggesting counseling, but i think there are some deeper issues at play with your hubbie. This is not normal behavior, to suddenly get immersed in goals so deeply as to divide what is supposed to be a partnership.

Seek professional counseling, now.
The Professor

...then I suspect he is trying to get it paid off before leaving you. Perhaps it is irresponsible of me to speculate, but I find his behavior extremely suspicious.

Theory: he is gambling that you want so badly to keep him that you will pay off his debts rapidly, freeing him, or or less, to leave you. Changing the passwords on the accounts sounds like a way to hide questionable expenditures of his own. If your name is still on any of the accounts, please go to the bank and check the records yourself. I hope you can bring yourself to be paranoid enough to do this; it strikes me as only prudent. His blaming you at every step sound like a bad case of projection.

I hope I'm wrong. Assholery can be treated, but conspiracy can only be uncovered.

I'm afraid that it sounds like your Hubby is not only mean spirited and selfish but he may be getting ready to dump you. If not he is certainly up to something. If i were you I WOULD be battening down the hatches.Hide Money and get ready for the worst. I would suggest marriage counseling, but I would bet he wouldn't go. Good luck. It sounds like your are gonna need it.

The only thing I can say is the same situation happened to me but in reverse. I put up for years with my wife putting me down.
My advice is file first, there is nothing like getting hit blind sided with the papers; been there done it, he will do it soon or later, he is just trying to build up the reasons.